Originally Posted by Yogi

sorry but you are mistaken.

Yogi, I don't know the breed, so I will take you at your word that they aren't born with a vicious temper. I would say then if a person adopts a Pit Bull, or gets it from a previous owner, it should NOT be around children, EVER. Reason is obvious: no one really knows for sure what's in that particular dog's background-unless the dog came from a close friend or relative you know really, really, well who raised it as a pup. In that situation, even without children, a pet owner shouldn't want a Pit around HIMSELF. Because, this I know, you cannot eradicate a vicious nature. And if you're alone with the dog, and that baby turns...Whew Boy! You better hope that God is with you...Because if He's not and you survive, your plastic/reconstructive surgery bills WILL be up in the 6 figure range.

About the other vicious dogs you reference, I can't agree. Sure, another dog can do the same amount of damage to a human being given the same circumstances. However, NO dog can outfight a Pit Bull. If I'm mistaken, tell me which dog can go up against a Pit and win?

Yogi, I don't know the breed, so I will take you at your word that they aren't born with a vicious temper. I would say then if a person adopts a Pit Bull, or gets it from a previous owner, it should NOT be around children, EVER. Reason is obvious: no one really knows for sure what's in that particular dog's background-unless the dog came from a close friend or relative you know really, really, well who raised it as a pup.

Any dog who is gotten as a rescue should be watched around children and other animals, until their temperment is known. Its not the breed, its how they were treated and raised from the begining, that determins how a dog is going to react in any given situation. A yorkie can be just as mean as a pit bull if its been raised wrong from the begining. And by the same token a pit bull can be just as gentle as a yorkie, provided its been raised properly to start with. Its not the breed, its how its been raised! Granted some breeds are more prone to agression than others, but then again some people are more likely to be agressive than others as well. Its all in the upbringing and socilazitation, not the breed.

Aggressive breeds of dogs. I like the cuddly and tiny breeds.

Originally Posted by Jakesmom

A yorkie can be just as mean as a pit bull if its been raised wrong from the begining. And by the same token a pit bull can be just as gentle as a yorkie, provided its been raised properly to start with. Its not the breed, its how its been raised!

Well, yeah, Moms. But, which breed would you rather not get ahold of you if he's mean. The Yorkie? or the Pit?...

With the Yorkie, you'll get a little nip on your heel.

With the Pit, your ass is his!

Pits make great guard dogs, but personally, I just couldn't trust them around my kids. For me, it's not just the Pit, that goes for any dog that is deemed to have aggressive tendencies, that would include German Shepheards and Dobermans. Yes, I do understand about man teaching aggression, but I think it's something in there nature that makes them more susceptible to turning, shall I say, "ugly". In contrast, I wouldn't worry about a Lab or a Golden Retriever around my kids.

Just my thoughts...

I had a foster pit for 10 months, she was a very sweet dog (she was dog aggressice) but great with people, fine with kids. Now, as a groomer for insurance reasons I do not groom pitbulls, rotties, AM.staffs, Presa Canarios or Cane Corsos. But I also know that they are not all bad... I have however seen a very kind, professionaly trained pitbull owned by a co-worker snap and go after a woman we worked with completely unprevoked.
Now before you all say I am anti-pitbull let me also remind you that about 10 years ago a 9 year old girl was brutily mauled by a Labrador Retriever! ANY dog can attack not just pitts.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Yogi, I don't know the breed, so I will take you at your word that they aren't born with a vicious temper. I would say then if a person adopts a Pit Bull, or gets it from a previous owner, it should NOT be around children, EVER. Reason is obvious: no one really knows for sure what's in that particular dog's background-unless the dog came from a close friend or relative you know really, really, well who raised it as a pup. In that situation, even without children, a pet owner shouldn't want a Pit around HIMSELF. Because, this I know, you cannot eradicate a vicious nature. And if you're alone with the dog, and that baby turns...Whew Boy! You better hope that God is with you...Because if He's not and you survive, your plastic/reconstructive surgery bills WILL be up in the 6 figure range.

About the other vicious dogs you reference, I can't agree. Sure, another dog can do the same amount of damage to a human being given the same circumstances. However, NO dog can outfight a Pit Bull. If I'm mistaken, tell me which dog can go up against a Pit and win?

remember when I said go back to the quiz and check out some of the other dogs. If you had you would see a couple off the top that can in fact "outfight" a pit bull. Keep in mind the Pit Bull was not created as a dog fighting breed but for working Bulls. In England, they decided to use it as sport some years later. It was not bred for this purpose therefore is not predisposed to this nature as so many think. This is bore out by looking at the Pit Bulls Michael Vick had. They no longer are as you put it "viscious". They are now running and playing with their handlers and in fact, when the handlers first came in contact with them not one dog was aggressive but in fact shy. The trainers have worked to socialize the dogs which is what they had no reality of before.
As I stated, Cane Corso is nearly 3 times the size of an average APBT and in fact can "outfight" an APBT.
Here is a history that may better explain the change in the "Pit Bull" over the centuries so that you may actually learn about the breed istead of just believe everyday bs that is thrown around with regards to them.
As one who has been bit many times in my lifetime dealing with dogs Nearly loosing an ear to a GSD, which I hold no ill feeling and have owned them since) I have seen the results of many dog bites by several breeds and find no real facts that constitute the Pit is any more dangerous when attacking than a Cane Corso. Many breeds bite and hold, hell even Terriers and that was what they were bred to do in fact they are the only breed bred for the sole purpose of killing small animals.
Pit Bull Breed History -- Pitbull
Official Pit Bull Site of Diane Jessup

As far as Micheal Vick's dogs, they may be seemingly far less agressive now, but if you had a baby or a small child, would you trust Micheal Vicks' dogs around it? What those dogs learned from Micheal Vick is now engrained in their canine psych. Not saying they should be put to sleep, although that is debatable. However, they should never, ever be around children. You, nor anyone else, cannot guarantee that the viciousness that they have learned will not ever surface. I'm willing to bet that when they are challenged or pushed, it will come out. And baby, when it does, it will be far from pleasant...

That said, I concede that it was man who probably created the killer behavior in this breed. What else is new, right? There are plenty of sick, weak, insecure men that need an aggressive being in their camp. About the Cane Corso, the ones you have illustrated look like Satan incarnate, that's a fact. However, I've noticed the musculature on the Cane and compared it to the Pit. The Pit looks much more solid in the chest. To me, that equates to stamina as well as strength. The physique on the Pit also looks more streamlined, as if it would allow the animal to move quicker and more efficiently in a fight. You've pointed out the Canes are bigger, but does size really matter? It's not really the size in the dog, but rather the fight. Hehehe.

I'm not disputing your knowlege, just throwing out my own thoughts.

[Yogi]

The Cane Corso's ability and strength when compounded with over 110lbs which in most cases can be even larger (thus 2 to 3 times larger than a APBT) and having the physical strength to match it size, the chest will not matter. It is actually twice as strong as the APBT.
The Italiano Mastiff is the original bred Pit Bull. Created by the Romans as a guard dog and a dog of war. During off times was used by Roman farmers to protect their herds and farms. Over centuries it was used in ancient times for dog fighting before the APBT was used and that is attributed to the English which banned the practice in 1895. The APBT ancestory is the Cane Corso and are directly linked. As this breed was involved with fighting and with guard oriented duties before the APBT how can you assume that it is not capable of the same thing then take into consideration its much larger size and overall strength it then becomes even more of a threat as its bite is just as strong but now you have a dog standing 27 or so inches and weighing in at 110 to 120lbs as opposed to a dog standing 19 inches and weighing in at 60lbs. Common sense cannot elude anyone when reality simply points to the fact that the larger of the breeds has more to take a human physically off their feet thus creating a more dangerous situation.
As for me, like I said previously. I have been around many APBT's and have yet to meet one that is vicious and would have no problems if my sons were younger, letting them near them. The mistake here is that you have never met one and are basing all you know of the breed on media information that is in fact speculative at best. Since even you proved you could not tell a APBT even when given a test. The Bull terrier was not bred to fight dogs or for that matter even kill but was bred to control Bulls and was very good at what it did. It was not bred to attack people and like any other breed, it does not unless not properly socialized but for that matter the people who had the infant mauled to death by the family Pomeranian probably did not expect that either. Any breed can and will bite and it can kill. The fault lies on the owner not the breed. Again, they are not predisposed to attacking and mauling people. But until closed minds are replaced with actual experience the adage of killing what we do not know and fear will always prevail. This just goes to prove that the only species of animal that believes we are the smartest are ourselves.
By no means am I endorsing this breed as one you may want to consider only pointing out that in fact, you really know nothing of this breed but you are quick to simply put blame for something that you really have no knowledge. For someone taking so much effort to learn of dogs that you may want to have in your condo, I am surprised that you have not also taken the time to learn the facts of this breed instead of just relying on what others relay or read in the press. A real dog person never relies on second hand information but actually physically looks at a dog even if it is a hundred before making a determination as to whether it is the right breed for them and in turn actually learns something instead of just buying into hear say. The fact is like many other breeds the APBT does require an experienced dog person and would not be a first time dog for anyone but this holds true for nearly all the terrier family of dogs. They are rambunctious, energetic, independent, extremely playful and prone to be overprotective. A dominant owner is required but unfortunately many breeders fail in this department when selling to just anyone. So, who do you blame now? Maybe the owner or do we look at the breeder? As a long time former breeder, only select few ever received dogs from me. Those were the ones who I felt after long interviews understood the breed and who's homes were set up for my breed. In my case, never an apt or condo. That is unless I was breeding Greyhounds, they actually make great apt dogs. No, they are not high energy quite the contrary they are in fact couch potatoes. Needing only a walk a couple times a day.

Yogi, good points. I wasn't aware nor did I take into account that the Cane Corso was 2-3 times bigger or stronger than the Pit. It's a descent of the Cane Corso, that I did expect. Just remember, the Cane and the Pit are related...

My question to you was would you leave your children around Mike Vick's Pit Bulls? I already know you feel comfortable about leaving them around Pit Bulls in general. I'm guessing your answer would be NO. My point in that regards was once a vicious dog, always a vicious dog. The tendency,while being controlled and and while learning new behaviors, can never be erased.

And yes my statements/ideas about the breed that are misconceptions come from the media, just like everyone else's I suppose.

About the shih tzu's they are couch potatoes as well, hence my interest.

I was also consideing an American Hairless Terrier, since you breed terriers, you would know they are the same dog as the Rat Terrier only without hair. Supposedly reported to be the best dog for allergy sufferers. I had read that they were energetic, but had also read they were good for apartments. According to what you posted above, is that not true then?

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Yogi, good points. I wasn't aware nor did I take into account that the Cane Corso was 2-3 times bigger or stronger than the Pit. It's a descent of the Cane Corso, that I did expect. Just remember, the Cane and the Pit are related...

My question to you was would you leave your children around Mike Vick's Pit Bulls? I already know you feel comfortable about leaving them around Pit Bulls in general. I'm guessing your answer would be NO. My point in that regards was once a vicious dog, always a vicious dog. The tendency,while being controlled and and while learning new behaviors, can never be erased.

And yes my statements/ideas about the breed that are misconceptions come from the media, just like everyone else's I suppose.

About the shih tzu's they are couch potatoes as well, hence my interest.

I was also consideing an American Hairless Terrier, since you breed terriers, you would know they are the same dog as the Rat Terrier only without hair. Supposedly reported to be the best dog for allergy sufferers. I had read that they were energetic, but had also read they were good for apartments. According to what you posted above, is that not true then?

just to remind you, with regards to Michael Vicks dogs, the handlers noted from the beginning that the dogs were in fact not vicious at all but in truth were frightened and shy which is a sign of non socializing. This means simply that the dog will not attack a human of any size but will do all it can to avoid humans as they are fearful of them. At the same time when these dogs were put in a position head to head they immediately went to attacking one another. Since the handling has been completed and the dogs have been socialized it was noted in one article that the dogs are now being adopted out with no ill issues when it comes to people. Would I have a problem if my kids were young, NO. Socializing is the key with regards to all breeds as to whether you have a properly tempered dog or one that is not. In my breed, Miniature Pinschers are perceived as cute little dogs which is the eyes playing tricks on the mind. People negate the size and in turn commence assuming. This is a large fault that unfortunately only humans possess and in turn lead to getting something they did not bargain for. Over handling of this breed in many cases results in a dog prone to biting as it is the only defense the breed has and therefore turns to it. Understanding not just the breed but its classification ie: terrier, would eliminate much of the confusion people have when it comes to getting a dog.
The American Rat Terrier is comprised of similar breed stock as the Miniature Pinscher. Meaning that the goal was to achieve the best possible ratter with what they had to work with. In the case of the "Rat Terrier" it was derived from crossing a smooth coated Fox terrier with A Manchester Terrier. Once imported into the US as farmers here had no real ratter, they turned again to the smooth coated Fox Terrier but added the Beagle and for speed the Whippet. In the Miniature Pinscher, the Italian Greyhound was added for the same purpose. It has been reported that many breeders starting approx 70 years ago actually included the Miniature Pinscher in their breed stock which would not surprise me but nothing has ever been documented to substantiate. In either case, you are still getting a terrier, therefore high energy prone to high prey drive. As noted before, the Terrier is the ONLY breed of dog created for the sole purpose of killing other animals. To expect anything less is mute. Which is why I am constantly dumbfounded at people asking why their JRT or Min Pin is always chasing and killing squirrels or rabbits etc. What part of reading and researching before buying did they not understand. Americans in general are prone to just buying because it is the fad or it is cute and end up getting themselves in a mess. This is the common end result when people buy terriers. Assumptions that it is a small dog therefore easier to handle is a sign of total ignorance. This also holds true with mortgage companies that hold in ownership for rent, apts and condos. They have no intelligence when it comes to dog breeds and make the assumption 20lbs or under (this is the common out here) when determining if a tenant can have a dog not realizing most of these are in the terrier family and can and generally are very destructive dogs. Instead of looking into the breeds themselves and finding that dogs like the Greyhound are greatly suited for apartments. What difference does it make in the long run if the dog takes up 4 times the floor space so long as it does so without tearing up the carpet or your furniture. What is needed is a complete understanding of the breed so in turn you can be aware before hand if the dog is going to be a handful requiring a lot of exercise to appease it therefore wearing it out so it does not go postal on the condo or a breed that in fact can suffice on being walked twice a day for 20 minutes and when you are not at home is sound asleep and could care less who comes calling when you are not there. If people read up on dogs like they should when purchasing a car or for that matter leasing a condo or apt because the of the cost, location, space etc. the majority of people would never get a dog or would have a totally different breed than the one they just grabbed because it fit in their purse or on their arm or for god knows what other ignorant reason. A dog is a dog, like people they all have their quirks and these are the little things that are the unexpected but if you get the RIGHT one as far as breed goes and in all it lives up to the basic understanding as you thought it would, then the little quirk is just that a little quirk and is of no consequence in the final analysis. The ultimate goal is this animal is your responsibility for its lifetime. It is not thrown away when things go bad or go wrong but is worked with, cared for and nurtured because the ultimate reward is something that nearly every one desires but few ever really receive and that is unconditional love. With that being said, what exactly is your reason for wanting a dog again?
For me it is simple, I have no faith in people and have never given anyone reason to believe otherwise. Those that know me will attest to this. With dogs and cats I find solace knowing that someone at one point did something right and the unconditional love that is received from them can and in my case is immense. No matter what mood I may be in, tails continue to wag or in most cases, nubs continue to wag. Cats continue to purr and for me that is all I need to make me realize things are not that bad. Even if it means cleaning a litter box or excusing a dog for messing on the carpet. Because when all is said and done, these creatures provide something to me that most only dream of but never quite get when it comes to people and that is the unconditional love.

Yogi, you're gonna love this: I just came back from my condo office and according to the representative I talked to, the list of breeds not welcome in our community are any "aggressive" breeds (her words). Some examples she gave off the top of her head was the Doberman, German Shepherd, and of course, the Pit Bull. I have to agree with this policy, because regardless if these dogs have an ingrained vicious nature, if there is ever an attack, the dogs listed will do MUCH, MUCH more damage than a Cocker Spaniel, Poodle or Maltese. Obviously, they don't want to be responsible for anyone on the premise being mauled and that's completely understandable.

About the terriers, their high energy nature is exactly the reason I won't get an American Hairless Terrier at this point in my life even though they are great for people with allergies like myself. I want a more docile dog, because although I'm getting it primarily for the children/family, ultimately the responsibility for that dog falls on me and I have to have one that I can live with. I'm not an outdoorsy person by nature and we don't have a yard for the terrrier. Of course, you are right in that more people should do research and not pick out the first dog that bond with regardless of breed, and that is what I'm doing.

Why do I want a dog? Here are my reasons in order:

1) To enrich the lives of my sons. Especially the 12 year old, the 15 year old doesn't care whether we get one or not.

2) To provide a learning experience for them.

3) To enrich my life.

To get all of the above, I'm sure I can put up with the carpet issues.

Still, I am taking my time and seeing if this is the right decision for us and don't plan to purchase, if I purchase until this summer. I'll be working for the school district as a psychologist, and have summers off just like teachers.

During the summer is when I plan to get my puppy, because I will be home 24/7 and can potty train if most effectively.

Funny, in addition to the breed and weight restrictions, though their weight restrictions are in the "general area", they are much more concerned about breed, the don't want puppies here. They want dogs that are one year or older. There reason is that they don't want "dogs peeing all over their carpets"...

The one year restriction isn't really realistic because lots of people want puppies, the tenants around here all but ignore that rule. There are plenty of people around here that have dogs much younger than 1-year-old.

And they also don't want any labs or retrievers here; too big I guess because some smaller dogs are just as active. Personally, I see no reason for the restriction on labs or retrievers, these are great family dogs. Stupid policy in that regard. I'd definitely be interested in labs and goldens if it weren't for their immense amount of shedding and need to be exercised.

Also Yogi, why do you like the dogs like the Dobermans and Pits so much anyway? What is it that they provide that a cuddly dog say a bichon or a wonderful lab or retriever can't provide you?

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Also Yogi, why do you like the dogs like the Dobermans and Pits so much anyway? What is it that they provide that a cuddly dog say a bichon or a wonderful lab or retriever can't provide you?

I think you may have mistaken something, first and foremost I like all dogs. I do not discriminate against them in any fashion but for me the experience I have had makes this for more easy then those who really know nothing about dogs. Many can quote script when it comes to breeds but in fact know nothing first hand. As stated prior, even the majority of books on breeds were not written by those who actually ever owned them. Would it be fair for me because I raised 2 sons to tell you exactly how yours will be at a certain age in their life. What their habits will be or their mannerisms. How about how they will handle certain situations. No, though I could generalize as I have already been there but as no 2 children are alike, no two dogs cut from the same mold are. To throw all into the same class is totally discriminatory whether one has truth enough in their heart to admit it or not.
As with people, dogs react differently to situations. Some get involved, others are solely bystanders fearful of repercussion should they enter the ring of activity. This is bore out more so in human beings than any species of animal.
You are in this case see Pinscher and assuming it is a Doberman...!
I did not say it was a Doberman, I raise Zwergpinschers (MINIATURE pinschers). This breed is not related in any way to Dobermanns Pinscher.
It stands on average approx 12 inches tall and weighs in the area of 11lbs. They are terriers not created as protection/guard dogs as Karl Frederich Louis Dobermann's Pinscher was. As for Pit Bulls, again I have no ill feeling toward a breed only a dog I hold this in truth with all people as well. Race, ethnicity, religion etc mean nothing to me. It is how I am treated that determines my reaction to people. For the record it would be difficult in all likelihood for me to discriminate being of native American, Irish, English, Norsk and Svensk blood. In addition, prior to reaching 4th grade in Elementary school I attended 8 prior where I was raised with Chicano's in Long Beach California, the Central District in Seattle at the time primarily African Americans and on an Indian reservation in Alaska. I really did not even know what a white person was til the 4th grade. Due to this background in diversity of people I was fortunate to base my feelings as I have noted. I have carried this philosophy with me since that time and it has yet to fail me.
So with regards to your question, I do not dislike other breeds. I just happen to find myself with terriers many years ago along with my Malamute/Wolves, my GSD/Husky's, my Australian Shepherds, my Collies etc. In the course of many years I have had the opportunity to work with many breeds and see first hand how they react emotionally to situations. Dogs are not stupid as they actually can talk to you if in fact you know what to look for or at least take time to look for. Dogs can let you know when they are ill, can let you know when that are happy, when angry etc. You just have to know how to read the signs. Unfortunately many dog owners do not take this time and it is crucial to the dogs living out its full life. Just as our lives are shortened by stress, so are a dogs. High energy breeds on the average have a shorter life span than dogs who's makeup is prone to less energy. Size has nothing to do with it as many novices believe claiming with no knowledge that small breeds outlive large breeds. I lost 3 of my Miniature Pinschers over a 60 day period. Each had turned 12 just a couple months prior. The life span of the Miniature Pinscher, 12 to 14 years. My last Mal/Wolf lived to be 16. Average for this mix is 10 to 12 years. What I do not do that most people do with dogs is over handled them and let them be what they were meant to be. By doing so my dogs and even my cats live on average longer than their expectancy. You see for the 3 I lost, I have had many more live far beyond 12 to 14. Recently there was Baby a male I adopted and had for the past several years. Diagnosed with diabetes, he pass in Aug and was nearly 15, Abbey was my little girl that I actually purchased, she lived to be 16. Grandpa was 18 and blind since early in life, he passed away last spring he also was adopted. The one drawback with adopting is it is like buying a used car, you really have no guarantee of what you are getting but if you are willing to put time and effort into it, it can turn out to be a great ride. The 3 I lost were all adopted, but I would not have traded the ride for anything. There is no real words to describe the bond you can achieve with a dog or even a cat. It comes down to more than physical issues. It is more as if you are on the same page with them so many times a look can achieve what others need to verbally command. I will not say that all Pit Bulls are good but at the same time I can say from actually experience not bs tabloid based on non facts that not all are bad either. As I stated earlier, I have been around this breed off and on for many years and have yet to meet one that is as you state "vicious". You think maybe it has something to do with the way they are treated? Just like having children and being responsible for them, if not treated they kill also. To believe that a dog is any different if abused is simply blind discrimination. When the time comes that man can look at other animals without seeing itself as other than an animal itself is when we will actually and truly be able to understand all that is around us. Be reminded, we as infants are born with instinct that in a few short years of life are actually weaned out of us. This is nature and only society can be held responsible for doing this. I do not claim to have all the answers when it comes to dogs and the way they potential react. If I did I was perfect and fact is no one ever will be perfect as there is no such thing in the world. It is just a word to describe a lofty goal that people throw out there and strive for.
No, give me pretty much any dog whether purebred of mutt makes no difference as I like them all, including the APBT.

This was posted or at least quoted on another site. The readers bashed the poster who has a pit bull and supports them. They did it sarcastically joking that people in Asia must be speaking Spanish these days claiming there are no Cobra's in Mexico. Ignorance is truly bliss when it comes to throwing out remarks based on no fact. They like many never want to see the good only the bad and in the case of the bad as stated, you could not id the breed and for the victims later, neither in many cases could they. They conceded that it looked like a Pit Bull thinking that this is the only breed of dog that would do this when in fact any breed of dog is capable and many resemble the APBT.
This story in fact did happen and if you look at the country involved you will see that in fact they do speak Spanish there and the Cobra considered even more deadly than the King does reside in this country. I should know, my sister was stationed there for several years while in the Navy and all personnel were warned regarding inland trips to be cautious of this snake.
Pit Bull saves 2 women from deadly cobra, dies wagging his tail - 2007-03-01
First Aid: Snake Bite - Philippine Cobra FRAG International

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Also Yogi, why do you like the dogs like the Dobermans and Pits so much anyway? What is it that they provide that a cuddly dog say a bichon or a wonderful lab or retriever can't provide you?

I have an Akita which is what I bred for 15yr.s and a Husky....While I love little dogs as much as the next for me personally I need more then a lap dog.....Akita's are extremely loyal and are very loving when in the right hands....They are extremely protective and have a natural guarding instinct especially when it comes to their family and property....I know when I'm home alone that even though my Akita is very good natured and great with people if someone ever came into my home and tried to harm me or any member of my family for that matter they would not succeed....This is something that I require from my breed...

My Husky on the other hand while she is a great watch dog she'd let anyone in my house as long as they show her some affection...She's an absolute people lover and other then men she doesn't know has no fear of anyone....

I guess it's all a matter of personal preference....While some people are content with small breed dogs that they can cuddle some like me prefer larger breeds that can fulfill the requirements they have in that dog such as protection...

I like Yogi had a very lengthy interview and question and answer sessions with potential buyers of my puppies among many other requirements they had to met....Needles to say I usually wound up with one or two that had not been sold...

While my Akita is my pride and joy and is as spoiled as they come he also has a role to fill and that's to guard and protect my home....My Husky on the other hand who actually started out as a foster is really just for companionship for me and my family and of course my Akita as well....

I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a dog or particular breed.

i don't like bulldogs or pit bulls because they frighten me. I like small and cute dogs.

Yogi, just curious. You stated that you can't trust people. Isn't there a friend or a loving woman somewhere that you can trust? Substituting dogs in your life because you can't trust people sounds kind of cynical. Maybe I'm naive.

[Yogi]

People in general I do not trust. I have one friend in particular that I have known and we have been like brothers since age 11 going on 46 years now.
A few others that have been in and out of my life over the years. No longer married but 2 adult sons both off and married.
I do not see it as being cynical at all but instead see it as being honest. Cynical I would venture to guess would be from ones point of view that sees my point of view different from their own. These days I am quite happy with the little interaction I have with people and more time I spend with the menagerie I have.
As stated previously, unconditional love is something in others we would like to have but in fact rarely if at all so we really receive. In the dogs and cats, it is a given no matter how bad of a day or how grumpy I may be, they do not care and are always there with wagging butts and quick purring. If there is a heaven, I pray it is like this...

[lulusmom]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Yogi, just curious. You stated that you can't trust people. Isn't there a friend or a loving woman somewhere that you can trust? Substituting dogs in your life because you can't trust people sounds kind of cynical. Maybe I'm naive.

Yes you are naive and have obviously never experienced the joys of sharing your life with dogs and cats. Dogs are part of the family, usually the part that doesn't piss you off, even if they pee on your carpet. As I recall, your biggest concern is that a dog might pee on your carpet and you want one that doesn't need to be exercised...couch potato preferred. Shih-tzu's can be very difficult to housebreak and any breeder that tells you they are easy is being less than truthful for the sake of a sell. Also, no dog should be allowed to become a couch potato as exercise and proper diet are paramount in maintaining good health.

Yogi, I agree with you wholeheartedly and I think it is admirable that you have taken so much time to try to educate someone that has so little knowledge of dogs in general. I've worked in rescue for years and the one breed that occupies the greatest space in shelters in So. Calif. is the pitbull. They are wonderful, loyal and sweet, sweet dogs and unfortunately, they are also euthanized in great numbers. We are lucky in our community as the director of our largest shelter has an affinity for Pits.

Most people have never been around the breed so I understand that it's natural for them to be frightened of a breed that has been so demonized by the media. However, it is not okay for those same ignorant people to contribute to the already unwarranted bad publicity by espousing crap that isn't true.

I prefer the company of my furkids (five cats and five dogs) to most people. Unlike people, dogs are true blue and love us no matter what. Working in rescue, I am always amazed at how forgiving our furry friends are. No matter the abuse, neglect and downright cruelty, they don't hold a grudge and learn to love unconditionally again. Sometimes it takes a lot of time and patience but they do love again. The vast majority of dogs and cats in shelters end up there because their humans are inhuman scumbags. I've had friends say; "I hate people" and I used to think that was really harsh but not anymore.

[UnderDog]

wouldbedogowner - I am sorry, but I can not take you seriously anymore. I looked after my cousin (connor) for 3 years and my pit bull, who I miss dearly, was with me all the time whilst I was around him. Even when he was a baby, the dog would take out the nappys when it was raining so I didnt have to, it was as if he always knew what connor wanted...If the dog got the dummy I would give it to connor and he would be quiet, if the dog sat by the fridge connor got a bottle of milk and he was happy, the dog was a constant companion for Connor, and I am so thankful for that as he did a better job then ANY human could as far as care would go...he would sit by Connor's cot (the cot WAS blocked off and the dog couldnt get his paws in or over the top ) when he was sleeping and whenever somebody strange walked up to the pushchair he would bark and warn them off, as soon as I told him "down" he lay down and once again watched over the pushchair. Dosent get much better then that dog...

Yogi, I'm really curious as to where you got your information regarding the development of pit bulls and their original purpose. Having bred Bull Terriers in the past, I've done a lot of research on the breed, and I can assure you the original purpose of the bull and terrier crosses was for fighting.

The Bull Dog traces back to the 13th century, when they were used for bull baiting. The massive head and shortened jaw allowed them to bite the bull and hold on, while still being able to breath.

When bull baiting was outlawed, "gentlemen" who preferred blood sports started crossing the existing bull dogs with a variety of terriers to produce dogs that were lighter in build and more agile. The various bull and terrier crosses evolved into the breeds we know today as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, the American Pit Bull Terrier, and the Bull Terrier.

In the case of the Bull Terrier, the breed was created by James Hinks, who wanted an all white dog that was not only elegant in appearance, but game to fight. They were referred to as "The White Cavalier" and were not supposed to instigate a fight, but were required to be game enough to finish it, once it started.

None of the breeds that were created at the time were supposed to be man aggressive, though. In the old pit fights, the dog's were extensively handled during the fight. They didn't just toss two dogs in a pit and allow them to have-at-it. A man biter was not tolerated.

While it is true that the various bull and terrier breeds were also used for other purposes, including catch dogs for hunting wild boar, their original purpose was pit fighting.