[chiclet]

I have a 6 month old puppy I got from the pound 2 months ago. I was told he is a chihuahua pomeranian cross. I don't see any pom in it but a terrier of some kind. This is what the vet thinks and anyone seeing his picture or in life thinks Jack Russel or Rat Terrier. Short of DNA testing, does anyone know how to tell the difference? I would really like to know since it seems it has an impact on training and expectations. If it helps, I have free flying budgies which he pretty much ignores.

[Yogi]

In truth, shy of a DNA test which also may not be factual there is no way to be sure or for that matter doubt that she is a Chi/Pom mix. As one who has breeder friends in both of these breeds, I can see both in them. I think many would assume no Pom since they are prone to mentally seeing the heavy coat but as an example here is a pic of my Bambi. She is Miniature Pinscher and Papillon. As you can see, you do not see the Papillon coat or fringe in the ears ie: "Butterfly" ears. There is not way genetically to determine what is going to come out in a mix breed. As for Casey, looks like a Chi/Pom to me based on the general physical build and muzzle shape with is that of a Pom.
The first pic is Bambi, the next is Quinn, her Papillon father and the last is with Jade her Miniature Pinscher mother. Bambi has her butt to the pic with her sister in the back ground. All the pups came out looking like Miniature Pinschers, from general markings to the coat yet the sire was a Papillon.

[cigwyllt]

I really don't see Jack Russell in her at all. The markings are similar but that's as far as it goes. You might as well say they are the same markings as a Border Collie! He is a very handsome boy but not a Jack.

[CorkyMax]

Being as your pup is only 6 months old-still has some growing to do--weight and height. From the looks of the pic--It is bigger already than the chi or pom. How much does it weigh and height-shouder top down right now? As it becomes full-grown will only go 'up' and not 'down' in weight and height. YOGI, I know you are the expert on Minature Pinschers, but do you think there might be some in this pup? And maybe there is a bit of Jack Russell--a little bigger dog and the coloring . Will be interesting to see how much changes until it reaches adulthood!

[wildpitchernae]

personally i wouldnt waste your money on the DNA testing, i havent heard anyone thats been happy with the outcome.. but he definitely has some rat terrier in him thats for sure!

[chiclet]

Thanks for all the input, I haven't been able to get a height yet, but he is about 9 1/2 pounds and is bigger than he was in the picture. What about him makes you think rat terrier?

[wildpitchernae]

ill attach 2 pics of rat terriers that i think he could look sort of like, just look at the way your pup stands and look at the rat terrier's legs.. i dunno the first thing i thought of when i saw him was rat terrier.. what do you think?
*he does have a chihuahua nose tho

also i would count out a jack russell, he seems too tall already to be a jack russell, especially if you say he has still gotten larger than that picture.. so i would say more rat terrier than jack russell, they seem to be a bit shorter.

[CorkyMax]

I have to agree with wildpitchernae--I definitely think rat terrier now! Hate to admit this but I thought the Jack Russell and the Rat Terrier were the same dog!ops: And comparing pics of the 2--there is a big difference! I also have a link that shows pics (and description) of the Rat Terrier: Rat Terrier Pictures and Photos, 1 Note that there are 3 pages of pics to look at--advertisement in the way so make sure you scroll all the way to bottom of page(s)

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

Being as your pup is only 6 months old-still has some growing to do--weight and height. From the looks of the pic--It is bigger already than the chi or pom. How much does it weigh and height-shouder top down right now? As it becomes full-grown will only go 'up' and not 'down' in weight and height. YOGI, I know you are the expert on Minature Pinschers, but do you think there might be some in this pup? And maybe there is a bit of Jack Russell--a little bigger dog and the coloring . Will be interesting to see how much changes until it reaches adulthood!

I really see not Miniature Pinscher just Chi/Pom. The head and face look to he Pom and again, remember to not look at the coat. The mistake so many make when trying to determine a breed is looking past the obvious and concentrating on the physical structure which does not include the coat being long, short or whatever. The markings can be found in a Chi. In addition, without seeing the size of the sire of dam, this combination cannot be ruled out. There are large Poms and large Chi's.
As for Rat Terrier, you can look at several small breeds and see Rat Terrier since they were created by crossing several small breeds. The Rat Terrier is even been thought to have Miniature Pinscher in the breed stock some 60 years ago. I have see several purebred Rat Terriers that have heads and muzzles identical to some of my Miniature Pinschers. As for a vets opinion, it must be noted that unless a vet is a breeder of a specific breed they generally know even less than dog owners. They are animal doctors who's studies do not consist of breed identification otherwise when you fill out the forms and come to the area that asks the breed of your dog, why are you the one filling it out. Simple, because majority of them could not tell one from another. I have had them tell me my Amie was a Italian Greyhound, granted this is one of the 2 breeds that make up the Miniature Pinscher but having to correct them is something I know far to well after 50 years. Vets are the last person I ask about breeds because their guess' are less informed than my own.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Yogi

I really see not Miniature Pinscher just Chi/Pom. The head and face look to he Pom and again, remember to not look at the coat. The mistake so many make when trying to determine a breed is looking past the obvious and concentrating on the physical structure which does not include the coat being long, short or whatever. The markings can be found in a Chi. In addition, without seeing the size of the sire of dam, this combination cannot be ruled out. There are large Poms and large Chi's.
As for Rat Terrier, you can look at several small breeds and see Rat Terrier since they were created by crossing several small breeds. The Rat Terrier is even been thought to have Miniature Pinscher in the breed stock some 60 years ago. I have see several purebred Rat Terriers that have heads and muzzles identical to some of my Miniature Pinschers. As for a vets opinion, it must be noted that unless a vet is a breeder of a specific breed they generally know even less than dog owners. They are animal doctors who's studies do not consist of breed identification otherwise when you fill out the forms and come to the area that asks the breed of your dog, why are you the one filling it out. Simple, because majority of them could not tell one from another. I have had them tell me my Amie was a Italian Greyhound, granted this is one of the 2 breeds that make up the Miniature Pinscher but having to correct them is something I know far to well after 50 years. Vets are the last person I ask about breeds because their guess' are less informed than my own.

I agree. I do sort of see a jack russell possibility but who knows. I still feel I see some rat terrior.

very cute!

[chiclet]

I have some measurements. Close as I can get, what with his wiggling and trying to eat the tape measure is 12 inches to the top of his shoulder and 12 inches from the base of the neck to the base of the tail. He loves to run, is very fast, can turn on a dime and seems to circle more than just going in straight lines. He must have a soft mouth, he carried a raspberry without damaging it. He seems to have a memory for where his toys and what he has.

Also, he has pink and black paw pads.