Is there such a dog? I think I want a dog, or do I really? I have two kids (boys), 12 and 15 who I share custody with their father.

I'm a clean, neat woman and I just moved into a luxury condo that I'm renting and am very happy living in. The carpets are light beige. Lots of people have dogs here. My good friend and neighbor has one and she doesn't care whether hers pees and poos on her carpet. I am NOT like that, and won't even let her bring her chichuaha over my apartment for fear it might try to mark in here.

I do NOT want any pee stains in my carpet. And I know there are pet stain removal products, but the fact is when pee gets on the pad, that CANNOT be removed and a NEW pad will have to be installed with NEW carpet, or you live with the stain.

So, is there hope for me owning a dog, or not? If I were to get a dog, it'd would probably be a shih tzu.

And I would NEVER, EVER, get a cat. Can't stand them. A cat will urinate on floors and carpets out of spite and cat urine is 100 times worse than dog urine.

[reeskujo]

The only thing I can tell you is to go to your local animal shelter and adopt an adult dog....However even that is no assurance that it will be house broken.....Puppies are going to make mistakes in the house until they're housebroken unless you crate train them and supervise them at all times....House breaking requires a very consistent feeding and walking schedule...

No puppy comes automatically house broken.....you have to do your best to make sure they don't have the opportunity to have an accident and if you don't have the time or the patience to do I wouldn't suggest a puppy.

Reeskujo, thank you for your reply. If you read this and are able to answer, would it be appropriate to keep a puppy in dog diapers while it spends time on carpeted areas until it is fully potty-trained?

[lulusmom]

You have obviously never had a dog and if having a dog piddle on your carpet really bothers you, I think you should consider a hamster or guinnea pig. Dogs have accidents so you can expect your carpet to be peed on at some point. Puppies are peeing machines and you must be diligent and consistent with training. That means that if you work, don't get a dog until you can take a week or two of vacation to be with your new puppy and start training immediately.

We usually outlive our furbabies and when they get old, like people, they can become incontinent. Bladder stones, urinary tract infections, cushing's disease and diabetes cause excessive drinking and peeing which a dog can't control. I have two with cushing's disease and one with diabetes insipidus so I keep piddle pads down constantly.

I've had bigger dogs and toys....unfortunately, the toy dogs are more likely to piddle in the house. My big dogs would blow up before they peed on the floor. I have a friend that got a Yorkie and she is litter box trained. Boy do I wish I had done that with my four tiny guys. That is definitely something worth considering if you ultimately decide to get a dog.

I lulu's mom, thanks for the reply. My family has had dogs before when I was a child, but they were outside dogs. My father always purchases border collies.

My son wants a dog, so looks like I'll have to risk the carpets. I heard of the litter box training and will more than likely try that. I'm a substitute teacher at present waiting on a school psychologist opening, so either way I get the summers off. If deciding to get a dog is a go, we can buy him this summer and I'll have the whole summer to devote to a puppy. I would consider a rescue dog, but then you don't know what you're really getting.

Gosh, I just hate the thought of accidents on the carpet. But, since I don't remember how much joy a dog can bring to a family's life, maybe the benefits will outweigh my carpet concerns.

[Yogi]

sorry, but there is no way you can "ever" have a dog that will not on occasion have accidents. That would be like expecting a guest never to spill a drink or for you to never drop a glass. Accidents are what they are, they happen and people who own dogs are cognizant that like humans, these things happen.

I’m with everyone else, seems like your dreaming. What are you going to do if the dogs sick on your carpet?

Dogsunited and Yogi, thanks for your reply.

DOgs, I wouldn't be concerned about throwing up on the carpet, I just hate the thought of urine accidents because urine ruins the pad.

Maybe I am expecting too much, I don't know. But, like my kids, they are potty-trained of course, and since then they don't pee on the carpets, they use the toilets. THAT is what I would expect of my dogs.

[lulusmom]

Your expectations are with the wrong party. If you expect your dog to refrain from having accidents, then you should have high expectations of your ability to do a thorough and effective job of training him or her. The onus is on you and if your prospective dog is healthy and continues to pee on your carpet, then don't be disappointed in your dog because he or she is not the one that failed.

If this is your first dog, then I highly recommend that you do your research on whatever breed you are interested in. If pee on your carpets is a problem then a Shih tzu is definitely not the dog for you. They are stubborn little guys and can be quite difficult to housebreak. Hopefully, member(s) with Shih-tzus can give you some guidance.

Hi, Lulusmom. I'm interested in the Shih Tzu because according to a breeder I've talked with and the American Shih Tzu club website, they are docile little dogs. That would suit my family just fine because I'm not sure we would want a high energy, demanding dog.

From my research on the breed thus far, Shih Tzu's are ok with being left alone at home all day, whereas a bichon or Poodle would not be.

I will be working during the day and my children (12 and 15) will be at school. So our dog would have to be ok in his own space until about 4:00 pm when the first of us arrived home. Since, I'm a school psychologist and have "school hours" like my children, I would be off during the summer, so I would be there for the dog during the summer months.

My first choice was the Bishon Frise, but again, I do NOT want a demanding dog. I want to be able to go to the grocery store or a day of shopping while leaving the dog here at home with the dog being OK with that.

I will be talking to a bischon frise breeder today to verify that they are NOT ok with that, if so, my dog of choice will continue to be the Shih Tzu.

Also, from what I'm told, ALL small dogs are hard to potty train, with the exception of the poodle. I live in a nice condo with size restrictions on dogs, so for the time being I HAVE to get a small dog.

edited to add: I plan on training the Shih Tzu to use a litter box I'll keep in my kitchen area. Our kitchen has tile floors. Maybe I am naive, but when fully potty-trained and I take full responsibility for that, I see no reason that my dog should urinate on our floors carpeted or otherwise, or on my or my children's bed.

If he's sick with a bladder infection, ok. I guess I would have to deal with that, but there should be no other reason except for incontinence and that should come much, much later.

Sorry, but you really DO NOT need a dog. If you're biggest concern is your carpet and not the pet, then I suggest you go get one of these:
Tekno Robotic Dog - Jack Russell - Manley - Toys "R" Us

Pets - all pets - have accidents, get sick, and the like. Your expectations are wholly unrealistic and to bring an innocent animal into your home with such expectations is ludicrous.

[reeskujo]

You should know that not only are Shih tzu's extremely stubborn they ARE high energy dogs....Any dog is going to have a high energy level as a puppy regardless of the breed....They can also be very difficult to potty train...

When training them the biggest complaint I get from their owners is about the hard time they're having with potty training....

You also need to understand the no matter what breed you get ALL puppies are demanding and need a lot of time spent with them....

I have to agree that your excpectations are to high for any puppy to meet....

I would seriously reconsider getting a puppy until you are sure your able to deal with all of the annoying puppy behaviors....

You not only are going to have accidents,your going to have to go through the nipping and biting stage,the destructive stage,the whining and crying anywhere from a few days to a few weeks when you first bring them home,not to mention getting up in the middle of the night to take them outside to go potty since at 8 weeks old they cannot physically hold it over not....

Then you've got frequent vet visits until it's series of shots is done...

You should also as a new owner be taking the puppy to puppy classes to learn how to get him/her trained properly and to get the puppies socialization started as it's critical for this to be done between 7-17 weeks old.

I would also suggest that you make sure you find a reputable and responsible breeder...There are a lot of back yard breeders and puppy mills out there and if you do not know what constitutes a good breeder you can wind up with a puppy that has health or temperment issues.

Also be aware the the breeds you're looking out are grooming dogs....Unless you know how to do it yourself they will need to go to the groomers every 4-6 weeks...

There's a lot involved in getting a puppy and caring for it and raising it properly and responsibly...It's not as simple as bringing it home and potty training him/her.

Reeskujo, I am seriously thinking about the points you make.

Now, peeing on my carpet IS a big concern.

Having said that, I would be willing to do the other stuff, vet, socialization etc. Mostly though, I do want a couch potato kind of dog.

With the breeders, I have already run into the backyard breeders breeding for profit. Their adds are everywhere on the net. SInce I am in the market for a Shih Tzu, I am going to websites and seeing Shih Tzu's being bred to be 4 to 6 lbs. The parents look tiny, unhealthy and pathetic.

This is what I've learned to look for in a breeder.

1. Not that they have AKC registered puppies, but that they are member of the Breed Club. In my case that would be the National Shih Tzu Club, or either the state club.

2. ALso, that they should not breed the dam everytime it goes into heat, if so they are breeding for profit.

3. Like pointed out above, they don't exploit the breed for money by breeding smaller, less healthy dogs and claiming they are "imperial" and "teacup" animals and highly desireable.

4. They don't breed designer dogs, because designer dogs aren't in the best interest of the breed because it further dilutes the genes that make a Shih Tzu or any particular breed what it is. The concept of getting the more desirable characteristics from both greeds sounds good in theory, but it's not reality. Genes don't work that way: in reality you could get all the least desirable characteristics from either breed. So, when they sell mixed breeds they aren't aren't reputable and aren't allowed to belong to the breed clubs.

Have I missed anything in terms of qualifications of reputable breeders?

Crestie, maybe I shouldn't have a dog. I am seriously considering whether I'm a dog person. But, are you saying if I don't want pee on the carpet I can't have one?? The breeder I talked to today said that if potty-training is done right, once trained the SHih Tzu shouldn't pee on the carpets.

what reason would there be for a potty-trained dog to pee on my carpet?

Other than later in life incontinence (which will have to be dealt with) and UTI infections, that is...

From what I am seeing on this board, it's the owners fault that dogs are peeing on carpets.

My niece has a golden retriever. I don't know about accidents when they first got the dog, but from what my niece told me, the dog does not pee on her carpets now.

I'm going to train my dog to use a litter box, so there is no reason for accidents on my carpet. I won't allow that.

Other than later in life incontinence (which will have to be dealt with) and UTI infections, that is...

From what I am seeing on this board, it's the owners fault that dogs are peeing on carpets.

My niece has a golden retriever. I don't know about accidents when they first got the dog, but from what my niece told me, the dog does not pee on her carpets now.

I'm going to train my dog to use a litter box, so there is no reason for accidents on my carpet. I won't allow that.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Other than later in life incontinence (which will have to be dealt with) and UTI infections, that is...

From what I am seeing on this board, it's the owners fault that dogs are peeing on carpets

My niece has a golden retriever. I don't know about accidents when they first got the dog, but from what my niece told me, the dog does not pee on her carpets now.

I'm going to train my dog to use a litter box, so there is no reason for accidents on my carpet. I won't allow that.

"From what I am seeing on this board, it's the owners faiult that dogs are peeing on carpets".
This is so far from truth.....
I think you may need to actually start reading up on breeds so you get a better understanding of what it entails to actually own a dog.
There are several breeds that achieving 85% house broken is considered house broke.
Terriers do not do cold weather, or wet or damp weather and in most cases to avoid being put into these conditions will sneak off and do their thing. This includes being forced for lengthy periods of time in these weather conditions and not go only to go within seconds of being back in the house.
Other breeds will do find if they have a pet door which is something that you most likely are not going to have. Truth is, a condo/apt in most cases really is not a great place for most dogs as they do require exercise and this means a little more than taking them for a walk on a leash. It requires off leash play time and from what I have read, you do not seem to be one with the patience that is needed, especially for the energy level a puppy brings to the table. These are not children and expecting them to act as such will end up being a disappointment to both you and the dog.
As one who has 16 dogs and 13 cats, I can assure you that my cats have no problem using their litter boxes and do NOT pee on the floor, carpets or anywhere but their litter box. As for the dogs, most are terriers and I am fortunate to own a rug doctor that believe it or not with the proper cleaning ingredients, does actually clean all the way, including the carpet pad. But this is just part of dog ownership and something that if you were to take the time to read with regards to breeds recommended for apts, will also address house breaking issues as well. But if you are in anyway as you seem to be doing here with associating house breaking with your kids no longer wetting their pants, you seriously need to look at a different pet, maybe a bird. I also have 8 and outside of the seed casings occasionally on the floor which are easily picked up with a vacuum, they are quite entertaining, don't pee on the floor, are not quite particular regarding the weather outdoors and cost far less for upkeep.
Here is the basic that many true pet lovers live by, though it is humorous in text it actually defines those of us who in fact are serious about the care of Dogs and Cats and are honest enough to let those coming to our homes see that we do believe in the dog and cat foremost.
Rules of the House.
Dear Dog and Cat,
When I say move, it means go someplace else, not switch positions with each other so there are still two of you in the way.

The dishes with the paw prints are your and contain your food. The other dishes are mine and contain my food..(Please note, placing a paw print in the middle of my plate does not stake claim for it becoming your food & dish, nor do I find that aesthetically pleasing in the slightest).

The stairway was not designed by NASCAR and is not a racetrack. Beating my to the bottom is not the object. Tripping me doesn't help because I can fall faster than you can run.

I cannot buy anything bigger than a king size bed. I am very sorry about this. Do not think I will continue to sleep on the couch to ensure your comfort. Look at videos of dogs and cats sleeping. They can actually curl up in a ball. It is not necessary to sleep perpendicular to each other stretched out to the fullest extent possible. ( I also know that sticking tails straight out and having tongues hanging out the other end to maximize space used is nothing but sarcasm ).

My compact discs are not miniature frisbees.

For the last time, there is no secret exit from the bathroom. If by some miracle I beat you there and manage to get the door shut, it is no necessary to claw, whine meow, try to turn the knob, or get your paw under the edge to try and pull the door open. I must exit through the same door I entered.
( In addition, I have been using the bathroom for years...canine or feline attendance is not mandatory ).

The proper order is kiss me, then go smell the other dog or cats' butt.
I cannot stress this enough. It would be such a simple change for you.

RULES FOR NON-PET OWNERS WHO VISIT AND LIKE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PETS:

1. They live here, you don't.
2. If you don't want hair on your clothes, stay off the furniture.
3. I like my pet better than I like most people.
4. To you it's an animal. To me he and or she is an adopted son or daughter
who is short, hairy, walks on all fours and is speech challenged.
5. Dogs and Cats are better than kids. They eat less, don't ask for money all
the time, are easier to train, usually come when called, never drive your
car, don't hang out with drug using friends, don't drink or smoke, don't
worry about buying the latest fashions, don't wear your clothes and don't
cost a million dollars for college.
The fact is, to a true dog or cat owner this is reality and for this we are thankful. We choose owning a dog or cat as some choose having a baby. The responsibility is lifetime and nothing less as with a child with the only difference being that a dog or cat will not live as long but for that we accepting and allow more patience for the short time they are here to share our lives. Don't get me wrong, I have two adult sons in their 30's and would not trade the rearing and time with them for anything but I have also always had dogs and cats and this I was able to find time to share with both with patience. I just find it odd how others cannot instead are more inclined to worry about the negative side to dog ownership than the positive side of what these animals have been bring to humans for centuries considering that we are the ones who actually created them.

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Reeskujo, I am seriously thinking about the points you make.

Now, peeing on my carpet IS a big concern.

Having said that, I would be willing to do the other stuff, vet, socialization etc. Mostly though, I do want a couch potato kind of dog.

With the breeders, I have already run into the backyard breeders breeding for profit. Their adds are everywhere on the net. SInce I am in the market for a Shih Tzu, I am going to websites and seeing Shih Tzu's being bred to be 4 to 6 lbs. The parents look tiny, unhealthy and pathetic.

This is what I've learned to look for in a breeder.

1. Not that they have AKC registered puppies, but that they are member of the Breed Club. In my case that would be the National Shih Tzu Club, or either the state club.

2. ALso, that they should not breed the dam everytime it goes into heat, if so they are breeding for profit.

3. Like pointed out above, they don't exploit the breed for money by breeding smaller, less healthy dogs and claiming they are "imperial" and "teacup" animals and highly desireable.

4. They don't breed designer dogs, because designer dogs aren't in the best interest of the breed because it further dilutes the genes that make a Shih Tzu or any particular breed what it is. The concept of getting the more desirable characteristics from both greeds sounds good in theory, but it's not reality. Genes don't work that way: in reality you could get all the least desirable characteristics from either breed. So, when they sell mixed breeds they aren't aren't reputable and aren't allowed to belong to the breed clubs.

Have I missed anything in terms of qualifications of reputable breeders?

Crestie, maybe I shouldn't have a dog. I am seriously considering whether I'm a dog person. But, are you saying if I don't want pee on the carpet I can't have one?? The breeder I talked to today said that if potty-training is done right, once trained the SHih Tzu shouldn't pee on the carpets.

what reason would there be for a potty-trained dog to pee on my carpet?

Other than later in life incontinence (which will have to be dealt with) and UTI infections, that is...

From what I am seeing on this board, it's the owners fault that dogs are peeing on carpets.

My niece has a golden retriever. I don't know about accidents when they first got the dog, but from what my niece told me, the dog does not pee on her carpets now.

I'm going to train my dog to use a litter box, so there is no reason for accidents on my carpet. I won't allow that.

A reputable breeder also only breeds dogs that have been titled and confirmed....They also do extensive health testing to make sure that there are no genetic health issues that they are prone to as to not pass it on to the pups....

The list goes on and not to say that the breeder your speaking with is a BYB but the things she's told you even BYB's are aware of but choose not to follow....I would highly recommend you ask her for references and for health cert. on the dam and the sire....

If she's reputable then she should be a member of the American Kennel Club not just the breed club.

Yogi, please reference your information that in some breeds 85% house broken is housebroken. What breeds are these? That is a breed I do NOT want. I am of the opinion that a dog is housebroken or not. I wouldn't be able to accept that. I'm not disputing the truth of what you're saying, I'd just like to read up on it. So, if a dog poops or pees 100 times a month, who in their right mind going to accept 15 big, stinking urine stains on their carpet EACH month??? I couldn't do it.

With the cats, I'm not sure you are aware, but I personally can't stand them. I know of a woman-I got this story right from her own mouth-that her cat hates her husband and as a result it goes upstairs and eliminates on the couple's bed. Get this: the cat only does it on the husband's side of the bed. If it were me, said cat would hit the pavement. They are not the same as dogs, they have no business doing this kind of stuff.

As far as who's fault it is when a dog has an accident, I'd probably still say it's the owners with the exception of sickness. The reason is until a dog is housebroken completely, the owner should have an eagle on the dog and crate it at night. If an owner learns the dog's personality and is in tune with the dog, they would know if the dog is going to attempt to urinate somewhere in the house, because the dog would have tried it already while it was being housebroken. If the dog is doing it deliberately, it has behavior problems and if so, why wasn't this picked up by an owner during the period of growth in which said owner was getting to know the dog while potty training. On this very forum, there was a woman crying about her dog peeing in the house. Well, that's her fault. There is something obviously seriously wrong with that dog, whether it be physical or mental/behavioral.

Yog

I just find it odd how others cannot instead are more inclined to worry about the negative side to dog ownership than the positive side of what these animals have been bring to humans for centuries considering that we are the ones who actually created them.

Well, this is what I'm currently trying to figure out: if the positives of dog ownership outweight the negative. I cannot deny my son one though if he really wants it.

About the condo issue, I know a lot of dogs need more exercise than what a condo usually allows for, that's why I'm doing careful research on this. The Shih Tzu comes out ahead in that area too. According to breeders and the American Shih Tzu club, they are docile little dogs and a condo wouldn't be a problem. They don't do much exercise. Normally, they won't even jog with you. I assure you it will get enough exercise with my son dragging it around.

Update: Well, Yogi, tonight I read a book on each of the breeds I was considering: the bichon and the Shih Tzu and I ran into one of your 85% dogs. The bichon. That and the fact that he's considered a "velcro" dog means no way in hell am I getting a bichon. Right now, I'm iffy if I'll get any dog. I just do not want pee accidents on my carpet. My son hasn't been talking about it in awhile, we'll have to see.

I really do need a dog that I can count on that doesn't piss in the house when they are potty trained. These 85% dogs won't do. Still, I guess I'll continue to talk to breeders AND owners. I have a shih-tzu owner right below me in fact. I may have to consider an older dog, or maybe go with birds.

I've been heavily involved with rescue for more than 5 years and I can plainly see the writing on the wall...you really do not need a dog! Neither you nor the dog will be happy, you're expectations are absolutely unrealistic and I shudder to think where the little dog will be 12 months from now. Yes, dogs can be housebroken, but you are interested in a toy breed - the majority of toy breeds are very difficult to housebreak and most can never be counted on as 100% reliable. Regardless, things happen: dogs get sick, you are gone for too long a period, dogs get diarrhea for eating Lord only knows what, and the list goes on & on.

BTW, birds can be quite messy too, they toss seed, pee/poop where they are with no regard to your carpet, they can be destructive to wiring, wood, etc.

Get your son a hamster or a guinea pig.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by CrestieRsq

I've been heavily involved with rescue for more than 5 years and I can plainly see the writing on the wall...you really do not need a dog! Neither you nor the dog will be happy, you're expectations are absolutely unrealistic and I shudder to think where the little dog will be 12 months from now. Yes, dogs can be housebroken, but you are interested in a toy breed - the majority of toy breeds are very difficult to housebreak and most can never be counted on as 100% reliable. Regardless, things happen: dogs get sick, you are gone for too long a period, dogs get diarrhea for eating Lord only knows what, and the list goes on & on.

BTW, birds can be quite messy too, they toss seed, pee/poop where they are with no regard to your carpet, they can be destructive to wiring, wood, etc.

Get your son a hamster or a guinea pig.

I also have to agree and in addition add Terriers to the mix. Though in North America and the UK the Miniature Pinscher is shown in the Toy group in actuality it is one of the oldest of the Terrier family. These breeds generally fall into the 85% house trained classification.
In the Miniature Pinscher as well as the Parson John Russell Terrier aka Jack Russell Terrier there is a much misconceived notion that these can be great companion dogs, this is so far from the truth. Terriers are the only breeds of dog created by man for the sole purpose of killing animals ie: vermin. Their instincts to perform are deeply bedded and therefore have a high prey drive making them generally high energy and definitely not suited for apts/condo life. These breeds therefore are difficult to house train. As with other breeds, very rarely do you find one that will ever be totally house trained.
As for the cat issue, is it neutered/spayed? This very often has much to do with it especially if it was spayed/neutered at a later age. My former breeding Manx tom would do the same to me before he was neutered but on my jeans and only when I became upset with him. Since neutering, he no longer does this.