[bonny]

Hi

We got our dog from the RSPCA, and understand that she was apparently abused before she was 6 weeks old, and then rescued by the RSPCA.

She is now over a year old, and was very quickly totally house trained, and is usually just fine, and she is NEVER smacked etc. However, if either my wife or I reach out to stroke her she will very often cower down and pee. She even pees when we put her lead on for a walk, and yet she is jumping up and down in excitement to go out.

This peeing is clearly both due to excitement and fear, but no matter what we do, we cannot seem to stop it. Sometimes she runs right away from us entirely, like last night when she ran out into her (largish) garden and sat outside looking at us and shivering, and we had not even touched her. when we eventually got her to come inside, she shot past us and dived into her bed, still shivering ?

Does anyone have any ideas why she should be like this, and any suggestions at all as to how we can get her through this problem ?

Many thanks in advance

[sandyh]

you might have to spend alot of time on your knees to get her past this. You are very tall and menacing looking to her, any time you approach her try getting on all fours to get rid of some of that distance. try picking her up off the floor while you are on all fours and then stand up, put the leash on her then set her back down. also let her come to you dont reach out to her unless you are on the floor with her. Maybe this will help

[UnderDog]

I agree mostly with the above!

Keep in mind, one thing you don't want to do - when she does cower aware from you NEVER feed her treats or pick her up soon after. She will soon learn that cowering means she gets treated, so you will be training her into worse behaviour. You don't want to be too tough with her and flood her, but you also don't want to be constantly nurturing her. Firstly, cook a chicken breast and chop it up into small pieces (1cm-ish cubes), firstly drop/throw a few pieces by her so she knows you have food, once she realises and starts to pay attention to you, don't make a big deal of it but every now and again hold a piece and put your hand out to her, if she cowers away pull it away and ignore her for a few minutes, then try again and do the same, if she comes up to you give her the food. It will work best with warm cooked chicken breast as the smell tends to be stronger so she will be more inclined to check it out and also providing she doesn't have a bad tummy you can give her pretty much as you need to. Get a few people to do this so she doesn't just associate you with good, when people visit give them some food and ask them to do it. Once she is OK with you putting your hand out to her, start with the leash. She will probably be OK with it, but if she isn't then I recommend getting a slip-lead for this part. They look bad, but providing you use them correctly it will cause no harm. Casually walk past and slip it over, say "walkies" then lead her out. Don't make a big deal of it, otherwise you will make her worse. Once out of the door if she hasn't cowered you can give her a treat, then later on clip on her normal leash if you so wish.
Hope this helps. Be persistent and it will all pay off I promise you!

[Lara's mom]

I'm a little confused here...Teacups are so very small. I just can't understand how a teacup and a collie could actually breed...

[sandyh]

do you have a pic of the little one

[bonny]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I'm a little confused here...Teacups are so very small. I just can't understand how a teacup and a collie could actually breed...

Tee Hee, it was our Vet who told us that she is called a "teacup", because she is a smaller version of the breed. She is mostly Jack Russel in looks and mannerisms, but has a long strong tail (Collie?) and the classic b&W markings of a collie.

Here is a picture of her as a young puppie, being treated to a (little bit of an) ice cream at about 4 months old.



I have started to feed her rather than my wife, and get down on my knees when she seems receptive, but she is still very much Jekyll and Hyde. Up to a few weeks ago she was just fine, and was far less timid overall than when we first got her.

We took her down to the RSPCA and had a chat with the animal behaviourist down there, who also suggested I do the feeding etc. I cannot walk her as I have osteo arthritis and cannot walk any distance.

The only thing we can thionk of is that she did bang her head quite hard on a wall while spinning around chasing her tail in the hallway about the same time as this appeared to start, although it was instant by any means.

Any other suggestion are most welcome - Thanks folks.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I'm a little confused here...Teacups are so very small. I just can't understand how a teacup and a collie could actually breed...

In actuality, there is NO such thing as a "teacup" in any breed. Poor choice of words that came about in the late 1950's when a photographer for Life magazine took a photo of a 6 week old Chihuahua sitting in an oversized teacup. The caption simply read, "Teacup Chihuahua". Any breed of dog that is smaller than standard is just that, a smaller than standard dog. There is no factual name given to them or cute little name such as mini or teacup. Any vet that uses the term is simply a nut that I would not trust as obviously shows no real knowledge of dogs outside of treating them but lacks breed knowledge.
A true dog lover would never use the term as they know there is no such thing and all it does is continue the breeding of runts to achieve smaller and smaller dogs to appease the public who have no idea themselves as to how and what these dogs have to go through. The JRT and American Rat Terrier that are smaller than standard have over the years been linked to cross breeding with Chihuahua's to reduce their height for the purpose of making it easier for them to get into burrows after vermin. Many these days carry those traits that were introduced some 60 to 70 years ago. This is the primary reason these breeds are sometimes smaller and shorter. This does not mean that they are teacup or mini anything. Simply smaller or shorter.
Until which time as people discontinue the use of these terms, we will only continue to see poorly bred dogs that are bred intentionally small to appease the public perception and create unhealthy dogs prone to health issues.
Breeders use these terms as marketing ploys to entice people with no real knowledge or understanding of the breed into buying. In this case, I see nothing in this breed that in any way would imply the term poorly used would even apply. I see a short JRT mix.
Hopefully one day soon, people will discontinue the use of this term and in turn put the Puppy mill breeders out to pasture. No market, no ill bred tiny puppies. One can only hope.

[bonny]

Hi

I agree that the term Teacup is a total misnomer, and also that unscrupulous breeders use it regularly, but it does seem to be a term that is in general use, and my vet stated that when he mentioned the word.

Bonny is certainly smaller than the average Jack Russel, but that said, she is certainly not a RUNT.

However, this discussion does not progress my problem with Bonny right now ?

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by bonny

Hi

I agree that the term Teacup is a total misnomer, and also that unscrupulous breeders use it regularly, but it does seem to be a term that is in general use, and my vet stated that when he mentioned the word.

Bonny is certainly smaller than the average Jack Russel, but that said, she is certainly not a RUNT.

However, this discussion does not progress my problem with Bonny right now ?

The nervous peeing and cowarding posture you mention can generally be attributed as you noted to abuse or in many cases, not socialized properly. This could be the result of taking away from dam and litter mates to soon.
Or as noted, could have been mishandled. The only solution to problems such as this is patience and time. There is no immediate fix. Taking the time for the dog to acclimate and adjust and showing all the patience necessary for the dog to feel safe and secure is what is needed at this time. Many of my rescues that I have kept were very much like yours. Abused or taken too soon from the litter. The end result, they were "skiddish". Prone to fear peeing and nervous behavior. In my case, several took a few months. There were 2 that have taken over 7 months to come around and now are fine. It requires time and patience.
Another thing to note, as you did not see the litter there is no way to tell if she was or was not the runt. This only implies the smallest one in a litter. In actuality, runts more often than not make for better dogs. Barring any health issues or coming from breeds that are prone to producing extremely small dogs. By this I mean dogs weighing only 2 to 3lbs, ie: Chihuahuas etc. JRT's do not fall in the category of this. But the term runt can and is used to describe the smallest in a litter no matter what the breed. So there is a chance she may have been the runt of her litter. As stated before though, the JRT does carry some Chihuahua that was introduced to the breed stock approx 60 plus years ago. The goal was to shorten the dog which is why you may see JRT's and American Rat Terriers that are short in stature compared to their counterparts that are to standard.

[bonny]

Hi People

Thanks for the various respnses

Bonny was indded taken away from her dam at 6 weeks, which is why she was at teh RSPCA, she and her brother were being sold from the back of a car at a horse show.

The RSPCA said she was fat and well fed, but still obviously way to young to leave her dam.

We wanted to adopt her and her brother, but the RSPCA did not think that was a good idea as apparently she was the bossy one of the two, and would bite her brothers ears at night, and they actually had to separate them at nights due to this.

It seems the Consensus is to carry on as normal, but have me do more of the feeding etc, especially as I am (sadly) unable to walk her due to my osteo arthritis. I give her the treats after her dinner, and play with her and her toys for an hour usually, and she loves that, but the next morning she again will not come near me.

Thanks again, I will of course persevere, as a dog is for life as we all know. Hopefully I will be able to report some good progress here in due course.
Best
Bonny