[Lara's mom]

Actually, it isn't a bad idea...Lightweight hats for summer and perhaps knitted ones for the cold weather. They would keep dust, etc. from getting into his ears, keep him toasty warm in winter and, be a rather cool fashion accessory to boot! He might just start a doggy fashion trend!

[gary]

hi , i'll keep you all updated with how he's getting on ,
i really appreciate all the help and advice you've posted and i'm going to need a lot more of course ,this is just the beginning of his life and i'll be reading info about dog behaviour and treatment as time goes on ,

as far as i know he's still in kabul awaiting his flight out , the charity founder is doing some fund raising at crufts this week so is probably busy with that ,so i'm waiting some more info from him, i'm sending a couple of well worn sweaty t shirts ( i've no shortage of them ) home to my girlfriend so she can take them to him in the quarantine centre, i'm hoping it will remind him of me ,especially one that i wore when i last saw him ,it will have his smell on it also ,

what do you all think are the chances that he will remember me from my smell?
will that be how he identifies me or will it it be a mixture of sight and smell ? is early may too far away maybe for him to remember me at all ?
i'm wondering if i'll be a stranger to him all over again ,i first started feeding and playing with him about 3rd january so apart from my 3 weeks in the uk (15th jan-7th feb) i was visiting him 3 times a day with food and attention , is that long enough to have bonded with him for him to remember me in perhaps 8 weeks time ?

i know it's heart breaking to see them but i've attached a picture of him before he lost his ears, it happened i think on 5th Feb just a couple of days before i got back here, i'm pretty sure he recognised me then when i saw him

let me know what you think

forgot to say about his ears , some imaginative ideas about how keep them warm and free of dirt , we'll keep a close eye on them and make sure they're clean, i don't think he'd ever forgive me if i took him out with any sort of head-gear , the vet here told me that the animals in general and especially the dogs have the immune system of a rhino and are very good at fighting off infections and general viruses , they're not immune to everything but she said that genetically they're strong animals after living rough for so many generations, i will get him neutered of course perhaps during or after his quarantine depending what the vet advises, he let me toch and have a look in his ears with no problems ,but did growl when the afghan guy who cut them tried to spray iodine into them - no surprise there ,( he tried to do it when i was feeding him once and i had to tell him to keep away until he'd finished eating , i didn't want bobby to associate me and him as friends and see us together)
i had to keep a safe distance if the guy was around and then once he left i'd go and feed bobby then

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by gary

hi , i'll keep you all updated with how he's getting on ,
i really appreciate all the help and advice you've posted and i'm going to need a lot more of course ,this is just the beginning of his life and i'll be reading info about dog behaviour and treatment as time goes on , Glad to help!

as far as i know he's still in kabul awaiting his flight out , the charity founder is doing some fund raising at crufts this week so is probably busy with that ,so i'm waiting some more info from him, i'm sending a couple of well worn sweaty t shirts ( i've no shortage of them ) home to my girlfriend so she can take them to him in the quarantine centre, i'm hoping it will remind him of me ,especially one that i wore when i last saw him ,it will have his smell on it also ,That is a very good idea! Are you able to call home
(prob. expensive) Maybe your girlfriend can have the dog listen to you on the phone or maybe you could send a tape with you talking to the dog and she can play that for him too and reinforce this by having him smell your worn clothing at the same time.

what do you all think are the chances that he will remember me from my smell? I'm sure he will know you!
will that be how he identifies me or will it it be a mixture of sight and smell ? is early may too far away maybe for him to remember me at all ? Lol, that is only 2 months away but you are anxious and can't wait so it seems a lot longer to you. He may get attached to your girlfriend (which is good!) but if she has your scent from your clothing and a tape to play of your voice, etc everytime she is with the dog --He will associate you with her I would think.---So he shouldn't forget you.
i'm wondering if i'll be a stranger to him all over again ,i first started feeding and playing with him about 3rd january so apart from my 3 weeks in the uk (15th jan-7th feb) i was visiting him 3 times a day with food and attention , is that long enough to have bonded with him for him to remember me in perhaps 8 weeks time ?Don't think you have much to worry about!

i know it's heart breaking to see them but i've attached a picture of him before he lost his ears, it happened i think on 5th Feb just a couple of days before i got back here, i'm pretty sure he recognised me then when i saw him

let me know what you think You are his savior--and he must know that--How could he forget you!

forgot to say about his ears , some imaginative ideas about how keep them warm and free of dirt , we'll keep a close eye on them and make sure they're clean, i don't think he'd ever forgive me if i took him out with any sort of head-gear , the vet here told me that the animals in general and especially the dogs have the immune system of a rhino and are very good at fighting off infections and general viruses , they're not immune to everything but she said that genetically they're strong animals after living rough for so many generations, i will get him neutered of course perhaps during or after his quarantine depending what the vet advises, he let me toch and have a look in his ears with no problems ,but did growl when the afghan guy who cut them tried to spray iodine into them - no surprise there ,( he tried to do it when i was feeding him once and i had to tell him to keep away until he'd finished eating , i didn't want bobby to associate me and him as friends and see us together)
i had to keep a safe distance if the guy was around and then once he left i'd go and feed bobby then

Hope this afghan guy doesn't get suspicious as to where his dog is!! Hope too many people don't know what is going on---the fewer the better--things have a way of leaking out--even an angry 'buddy' could let something slip! Will be thinking about you and hoping for the very best!!

[gary]

thanks corky / max for the assurances , we've not had a dog in the family since i was very little , my girlfriend grew up with a rottweiler , so has more experience with big dogs ,
as for the afghan guy getting suspicious , bit late for that ,since bobby arrived 4 afghans have claimed ownership of him, a uk army mechanic said he just wandered in out of nowhere one day - probably smelt food , one of the afghans who claimed to have paid money for him saw me at the main camp as i was loading him into the pick up to meet the private security guys at the main gate , he confronted me claiming bobby belonged to him and i denied it saying it was a different dog, he knew i was lying but i wasn't about to just hand him back , we got into an argument and i drove off with him shouting after me , apparently i'm being looked for on this camp, so i will just keep a low profile and wait for the dust to settle and keep out of their part of the camp , the worst that can happen is he will want money for the dog , he had projected large amounts of cash to be earnt from the fights he'd have made bobby take part in , i reckon a fair price would be about $10 , that to me was how much he valued the dog , if he valued it a lot higher he wouldn't have cut off his ears and tail without anaesthetic and started to try and turn him from a lovable friendly little thing into a dog that would hate people and want to kill any other dog , he used throw sand into his face and poke and push him around ,grab him by the fur on his neck and goad him , i think bobby saw it as playing but if had continued it would have got more serious and heavy handed , i found the toys that the uk guys had posted over for him in the bin more than once ,so it was obvious they didn't want him to play, they wanted him agressive and knew from past experience how to do it , anyway he's safe now ,that's the important thing , i don't mean to upset anyone on here if you read all this but it is a pretty feral life with no sentimentality, just glad i could help one little fellow , it feels more like he chose me, than the other way round ,just the way he was when i first met him , you can probably relate to that i'm sure

[CorkyMax]

Gosh, I don't know what to say----Are you positive these afghans won't find some way to get him back!!?? That poor puppy has been through enough!! And are you going to be safe from any retaliations--These people sound so uncaring about everything!! Be extra careful!!

[gary]

it will be ok , bobby is miles away in the nowzad dogs' charity shelter and there's no way for them to find out where that is , and i'm pretty sure the guys who want to find me just want paying , they'll se it as a way to earn some cash, they won't risk their jobs here on the camp by doing anything voilent , believe me , he's worth the risk , the guys who looked after him while i was in a meeting loved him and took him out for walks , he made friends with the security guys who escorted the convoy to kandahar , the lady at kandahar who very kindly looked after him for 2 nights before he went to the shelter loved him and told me how "the little f***** even made me cry" when he left, she let him keep one of her shoes he liked to chew ,so upsetting a few people who would have given him a short violent life of misery for a few thousand dollars is a small price to pay
the one unfortunate thing is they'll just find another dog and move on, forget about bobby and some other poor little thing will take his place most likely ,but they won't bring it onto the camp for us all to feed for free until it's ready to fight and earn money, like the lady at the other camp said when i asked her how she dealt with the ones that don't make it - you have to just forget the ones you can't save and concentrate on the ones you can , very harsh but it's the only way she can continue her work, and i can well understand that

[CorkyMax]

That's a relief! Your puppy sounds like he knows how to get in a person's heart and is very lovable. Just think what he would of been like if you hadn't rescued him. And I also can see how you have to forget about the ones you absolutely can't do anything about (prob. a lot easier said then done) in order to go on and do what you can with the ones you save. Sad that life is so deplorable in some places. You have prob. seen a lot of that over there. Anxious to hear the 'happy' news as things progress. Take care!

[cookie]

This is true, you can't save them all. While the rescue people do what they can for so many, you and your girlfriend will help, and give Bobby what he needs--love, food, and a good, secure home.

And I can almost guarantee this won't be the last time you will be involved with something like this. You sound like a good hearted individual, and you're going to great lengths to help Bobby. (I think you chose each other.) You sound to me like the kind of guy who won't just walk away the next time you come across a situation like this, whether it's next week or years from now.

I salute you for this, and offer many positive thoughts for you, your girl, and for Bobby.

Please keep the updates (and pictures) coming!

[CorkyMax]

Earlier in this thread--Leashedforlife had mentioned the pup looking like a kangal -----Here is a link to a picture(s) and info on this breed: Kangal Dog Information and Pictures, Kangals

[gary]

hi everyone , sorry for not being in touch ,mainly because there was no news to report , until now , he arrived in the UK last week at the quarantine centre and starts his 6 months , his character doesn't seem to have changed at all , even after the epic 6 week journey he's just had going from cages to vehicles to cages and then to an aircraft , still playful and prefers people to toys , he's got a lot longer in the leg ,
i'll be home in 2 weeks and will go straight to see him and remind him i'm still around , my girlfriend gave him a couple of old sweaty t shirts i sent and he nuzzled all over them and they ended up becoming part of his bedding
so i'll get back and make a fuss of him then the hard work will start to train him so i'll be back in touch for a few pointers ,
my girlfriend said he likes to hold her hand or arm in his mouth, only gently though there's no aggression there , i think it's a "don't leave me" sign as he likes attention so much, he seems to ignore a firm "NO" and becomes more playful treating it as a game , sounds just like when he was here , it's probably difficult to remedy whilst he's in a small quarantine pen, so probably best left until he's finished his time, but any ideas how to interpret this would be appreciated ,

[CorkyMax]

Hey! So good to hear from you! Looks like things are going pretty good as planned. Yes, he certainly has gotten bigger! Lol, wonder how big he will get. I love that 2nd pic especially---His eyes tells me he is a little (big) lover--expressive. He is a very lucky dog--Do you think he knows this!? I wish he didn't have to be in that small pen for so long!--6 months seems far out for time quaranteed. Can/does your girlfriend go see him every day (hope so)--maybe it is a long ways away she has to go to get there? He won't be much of a young puppy anymore when he gets out of there. I take it that you (and your girlfriend) can take him out of the pen and play with him? When you get home of course. Can't remember right now whether you said or not--Will you be home for good then in 2 weeks? I suppose there are visiting rules to follow at this quarantine centre. And do you have to pay for 'room and board' for your dog--prob do and I bet it will be a 'pretty penny' being for 6 months!

I don't really know the answer about the 'arm holding'--but I would think that your dog doesn't want her to go because he is prob. alone most of the time in that pen and doesn't get to see her that much and also wants to play because maybe that is most of the attention he gets other than being fed, etc. Do the 'caretakers' walk him and exercise him, play with him at all? Maybe you don't know? Hope the visiting rules are not so strict that other friends of yours and your girlfriend's can't go and talk and play with the dog!!
This would be good to keep up the 'socializing' and help keep the dog 'balanced'----He needs to be around enough different people so as not to be 'uneasy/unfriendly' with strangers when he gets out of the quantine. Yes, he will be so da*n happy just to get out of there by that long time but it will be a change to adjust to just the same and if not around enough dif. people before hand---You don't want him to not want to meet other people--becoming shy or agressive when he becomes more exposed 'on the outside.' The more I think about it--the more important I think it is that he keeps contact right now with different people--esp. your friends that he will be socializing with when he gets out of there---as many as you can convince to go see him! If he just has contact over this long period with only you and your girlfriend--He might become overly attached and set in his ways and might want only you and the gf. to be near him!!

Will be anxiously awaiting to hear of your homecoming and news of your lucky dog!! Give him an extra hug for me when you see him! Talk to you later. Take care!

[cookie]

Wow, he sure is getting bigger! He's going to be gorgeous.

I don't have an answer to your question about the mouthing, someone more knowledgeable will no doubt chime in. You're right, though, it's going to be difficult to train the little guy while he's in quarantine, for sure.

But thanks so much for the update and the pictures. I think about this little guy often, and have been wondering how things were going.

[cookie]

I'd like to bump this.........Gary are you around? I've been thinking about Bobby and wondering how he is doing in his new life.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by cookie

I'd like to bump this.........Gary are you around? I've been thinking about Bobby and wondering how he is doing in his new life.

I'd like to know too! Hope things are going great by now!

[gary]

hello everyone , sorry for not being in touch for so long , a mixture of being busy and not having internet access , and when i have had access it's been too slow to load all the website in time
anyway ,bobby is home now , he's very exciteable and needs a bit of training so he understands he's not the boss and also neutering , but all in good time , we'll let him settle in first then do the necessary
one thing i'm not sure about is when i gave him a treat/chew last time i was home he got very aggressive and went to bite me when i went to stroke him while he was eating it , he probably thought i was going to take it off him , but i'm just curious how he sees it when i back off, obviously i'm not going to start scolding him while he was still in quarantine as he probably finds it boring enough and is a bit frustrated anyway
but now he's out and at home i don't want him to think that growling and snapping makes me back away and gets results , other than that he's as good as gold and loves attention and playing , is very good with other dogs when out walking , he did growl at a woman who owned a petshop when she went to put a new collar on him , she keeps wolves apparently which might have something to do with it , and it was during my girlfriend's period which they both agreed has an effect on dogs as they can tell
any ideas anyone ?

here's a couple of pics

[cigwyllt]

Great news that he is home and settled with you.

Not really sure about the first concern - my dogs are smaller and submissive so there's no real hassle about taking things from them. I guess in his case it is understandable that he would be worried about you taking his treat. Some dogs are more possessive than others but I don't know enough about dog psychology to know what would be going through his mind when you back off. Maybe a simple "Good! Now I can eat in peace!"

As for growling at the woman in the pet shop - my Jack Russell would do that. Some dogs are uncomfortable with strangers and perhaps he is just that way.

[gary]

thanks for the reply , i try not to attach human emotions and reasoning to his actions ( not easy as they can have such human-like expressions on their faces) as dogs have a different thought process which they use to evaluate situations , it's only what i've read and picked up through talking to the dog handlers over here - and not what i've experienced , so i'm still learning ,but from what i understand they see things we do as weak or domimant , if it's weak they feel they have to take charge ( which can apparently be stressful for them) and if it's dominant then they'll defer to that person to take charge (which they find much easier to live with )
i'm inclined to think he was frustrated with life in the quarantine and the one highlight of the day was me visiting him and giving him a treat , and when he felt like i was going to take that away just after i gave it to him he defaulted to giving me a warning , as if he had no patience left when it came to the one treat a day he treasured
i will keep an eye on it and next time will have to make sure he knows it's not acceptable - perhaps put him on his back and sit on him so he knows that behaviour won't win him any friends , but i think i'm going to have to ready myself to be bitten a few times before we get it right ,
as lovely as he is , he is a very powerful strong dog and he can't be the dominant force with that much weight behind him in case it escalates and he does hurt someone else , i might even get some professional help and advice about it so hopefully it won't get to the stage where i end up wrestling, with him snapping and growling at me in the street somewhere ,causing a scene
in the meantime any more hints or advice would be great

[CorkyMax]

Do a lot of you remember this thread!? I just came across a situation that was similar to this thread---Thought you'd like to read it---A book for children was written about this situation. I could not copy just the article about this so this link is from a blog I believe. There are a couple other interesting 'articles' in this link too but this is a long page. The main one I am wanting you to read is about a 4th(or 3rd) the way down. And if you would--read this above thread 1st to familiarize with this story in this link: Botanical Dog.Com- The Healthy Choice .The Intelligent Choice.

PS.--Gary are you still visiting this forum?

[Taming Rover]

Wow, I just came across this thread now, what a story!
To me he looks not so much like the Kangal as his fur is much longer and more black, and when he did have ears they seemed larger. It looks to me more like a Leonburger.
Here's a pic.
Hope everything is good with Bobby!
All the best

[CorkyMax]

I see you are still with us! How are things going with Bobby? Better I hope! Any new pics of him? Would love to hear from you---Been a while.