[gary]

hi ,i'm new and i'll keep this short and to the point , i work in afghanistan have come across a young (maybe 4 month old at the most) puppy that an afghan wants to train as a fighting dog , he cut off his ears and tail (to lengthen the fight duration) i'm organising bringing him home (puppy not the afghan) and just need some advice on what sort of behavioural problems if any i might have to deal with in future, i feed him 3 times a day and he seems very pleased to see me, i think he trusts me ,and doesn't mind me touching his ears to inspect them, i've never kept a dog before but judging by his paws and size he will probably be about 2 and half - 3 feet to his shoulders when fully grown, since losing his ears he has become less playful , this maybe just maturity setting in , maybe the trauma has done it i'm just not sure, at the moment he lets me stroke him while he eats ,lets me pick him up and carry him, is there anything i need to do now or bear in mind for the future ,he really is a lovely little guy and it's a credit to his nature that he lets anyone near him after what's happened , i've attached before and after photos

[cigwyllt]

I would say that this is a truly heartbreaking story but thanks to you this dog will have a happy ending. I think it is impossible to tell what effects the trauma will have on the pup. It sounds as though you are building a bond with him already and that must be a positive sign. It is amazing how resilient and forgiving dogs can be. It is true that there are times when a dog is scarred emotionally as well as physically by the trauma it has suffered but it is also true that there are many times when the dog just forgets about the past for the sheer joy of being loved in the present.

[CorkyMax]

I would continue to bond as well as you can but don't let the pup become so attached to you that it is afraid of everybody else---Socialize it and try to have other dogs involved with the socializing if you can.
Even though this lucky pup has you for a 'daddy'--You will prob. see caution on the pup's part even when you bring it home, even though this will be a much better place for him--It will be totally new surroundings to him and may take a little time to let him get use to it. Although it may not be so bad as he has prob. seen a whole lot of bad dif. situations where he has already been.

A few questions--He is a cutie--Do you have any idea what kind of breed/mix he might be? I don't know what kind of dogs are where you are or if they have completely different breeds that we don't know about here. What did you name him?

You said this was your 1st experience with having a dog--So I don't know how much knowledge you have about things. Are you searching this forum for some answers to many things as there is a lot of info in here! If you go to top of page(s) in this forum, you will see a blue strip that goes across--In it are white colored words to click on--Go further to the right and find the word Search--click and in the search field-put the words you want to know about and you will find threads on that subject that should be helpful. I just put the words: rescue dog problems in and found this that might be helpful (just click this)-- rescue dog getting worse You will find more threads about rescued dogs if you use the same words I did in the search box! (rescue dog problems)
And here is another thread from this same search:[/COLOR][/B][/quote] http://www.i-love-dogs.com/forums/la...elter-dog.html

I am also going to go retrieve some other threads in here that you might find helpful. Dog Forums - Search Results and this is a link to click on too--->
What About Vinegar!! and yet another and this one is a must!-->

Foods that are hazardous to a dog

Good luck with the pup and keep us posted as to your adventures with him and how he is doing! All in here love to hear these stories!

NOTE: You will prob. get more posts to your question--lot of trainers, breeders, etc. in here! (I am not an expert--just a dog lover with the experience of living with my 2 dogs the past 12+ yrs. and a lot of researching, lol, and listening to the experts in here for over a year now!)But as this is the weekend and esp. Sunday today--Don't expect too much for a couple days--Very slow on Sundays. Tuesday or Wednesday prob. the best bet--So 'keep tuned!' Hope you like this place--My 2nd home. You can see my '2 boys' in my album on my profile page if you care to.

[Todd]

I agree. Just keep a strong bond between him and yourself and socialize him with both other humans and dogs. You don't want him to associate other people with "the enemy" because of his abusive past. He is still a puppy so if your work is consistent and diligent everything should and will turn out just fine. I really admire you taking care of that poor dog though. You are a good man.

[gary]

much appreciated for your replies , he has a lot of social contact with other people ,afghan and uk personnel and has a little dog that is kept by the mechanics and they love to play-fight together a lot he doesn't have a name as yet but i think i'll call him "lucky" if i manage to get him home , i think the dogs here have a digestive system that can handle almost anything , he grinds down pork, beef and lamb bones and eats them although i don't give him chicken bones,
i understand the rewarding process and he very easily sits when i tell him before i feed him , and never snatches food from my hand ,always waits until it reaches his mouth then gently takes it
as for the breed i have no idea, i've heard it said that he comes from a line of dogs that are reverred for their fighting when they're properly baited and brought up to do so , i don't think it's a genetic thing, he's so gentle and friendly now and i can't imagine him changing without any prolonged provocation, thanks again, i'll keep in touch when i can and let you know, it wouldn't let me upload a short movie so i've attached another picture

[cookie]

He's so beautiful! I hate seeing his ears like that. Did they cut them off right down to the skull?? Poor thing.

I have no advice for you, but it sounds like he'll do well with you, with plenty of love and patience. From your descriptions of his behavior, it sounds as if he's adapting well and moving on from his bad experiences.

Bless you for taking him in.

[gary]

thanks cookie and everyone for your messages ,yes they cut his ears right down and also his tail ,left about 4 inches on his tail though,
not that i've ever doubted what i'm getting myself into but it's always nice to hear some encouragement, the day i saw him, the afghan soldier here who claims ownership brought him over to our side of the camp and when i knelt down and called he came running over straight away with that sort of excitement where his whole bottom half was wagging left and right , not just his tail, and buried his head in my armpit and neck , when i spoke to the soldier about what his name was he laughed and said he'll not have a name as there's no point, and asked me if i would name a tree or the mud i walk on ,then went on to explain how he'd cut his ears and tail so he would make a better fighter when he's big enough, from that day i really made the decision ,if he grows to the size of a small pony and eats 10 kg of meat a day ,so be it - leaving him to that life was not an option if there was something i could do for him then i'd do it, i've worked here long enough and saved enough to rescue the little fellow, not to demonise the afghan people at all a lot of them work voluntarily for a charity that rescues such dogs- abandoned or stray , they feed them and care for them until they're better and re-house them where someone will take them, but dog fighting is a big money sport and if something puts food on the table, they'll go for it

if you google "nowzaddogs" it's the charity webpage that's helping me if anyone's interested in having a look, please be aware , some of the stories will break your heart , but plenty will leave you feeling good also ,
i'll read all the links you posted corky / max, thanks and continue to bond with him , he does like to press his body against me or rest his head on my leg when his "owner" is around , i assume this is a sign he trusts me, i always make sure i turn up at the same time ,3 times each day with some food and make a little fuss of him, i'm sure this all helps too, attached another photo of him with ears, i'll keep you posted about how it goes, i'm sure it will be a happy ending even if i do have to smuggle him out of the camp during daylight under the noses of the owner and his friends

[CorkyMax]

Does this mean he isn't yours yet!!?? I sure hope you get him before something more bad happens to him!!

See you are in forum now so will make this quick to try and catch you! I saw these pics and I think your pup is at least part Siberian Husky if not all! Take a look please. Scroll all the way down too--There are at least a couple very well 'matched' pics like your pup!! -->Siberian Husky Information, Husky, Huskies, Sibe, Sibes, Siberian Huskys, Siberian Huskies

[Lara's mom]

I know it can be extremely difficult to get dogs out of foreign countries. I wish you all the luck in the world and I'll be praying that you both make it out. If you get a chance, read "From Baghdad With Love" by Lieutenant Colonal Jay Kopelman. He also got a puppy out of a war zone.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I know it can be extremely difficult to get dogs out of foreign countries. I wish you all the luck in the world and I'll be praying that you both make it out. If you get a chance, read "From Baghdad With Love" by Lieutenant Colonal Jay Kopelman. He also got a puppy out of a war zone.

Hey! I owned that book--Wish I hadn't given it away to someone else to read--Gave it to my grandson after he got back from Iraq as I thought he'd like reading it. I know he prob. doesn't have the book anymore but wish I had it--might of been able to find some good info for you, Gary. My memory is poor on being able to remember anything that might give you some ideas, Darn! Maybe you can find it on ebay or amazon.com!

Do you (Gary) know how long before you will be coming home?

[gary]

hi corky / max , thanks for the research , i'm not sure that he matches the siberian husky traits ,his ears were definitely larger and floppy and hung down at the sides of his face as opposed to pointing upwards like the huskies in the pictures, and his eyes are brown , but his coat is very similar and it does stand upright rather than lie flat and it's very thick sinilar in colour , would his breed be so important for me to find out for the future in terms of how i feed and look after him ? i presume when he gets to the quarantine in the uk they might be able to identify him , the charity i mentioned does deal with a lot of dogs from here , i'm home again in mid may hopefully and by then he should be safely in quarantine so i can visit him , my girlfriend will visit him until i get home then , the main obstacle is getting him to the rescue centre in this country first (not near here) , i won't say where it is for security reasons ,hope you understand ,the volunteers there put themselves on the line working for a western organisation even if it is just animal rescue and non-combatant
it's nearly 11pm here now and i'm off to bed but i'll see him in the morning with his breakfast

[leashedForLife]

Originally Posted by gary

i work in afghanistan have come across a young ~4-MO puppy that an afghan wants to train as a fighting dog... cut off his ears and tail... i'm organising bringing Pup home...and just need some advice on what sort of behavioural problems if any i might have to deal with in future...

hi, gary! :--)
i think that the pup is a rough-coated Kangal - 'kangal' means black-faced and refers to the mask, which can be interrupted by a blaze or a nose-ring of white.


unfortunately, like any pup they are loving + social - but this is an LGD = livestock guarding dog - they come with a sort of built-in set of problematic behaviors, and require a LOT of intensive + extensive socialization to become pets, in any sense of the word.

LGDs need puppy-style socilization (meeting any + all sorts of humans) for TWO * FULL * YEARS - until 24-mos, the onset of social maturity, and it should be ongoing for the life of the dog, to maintain their tolerant attitude - they will probably never be as promiscuously friendly as any Lab, but U can keep them civil.
* nocturnal barking + perimeter patrols can be non-stop
* untrusting of strangers -
do not assume the vet can examine or treat the dog, once past puberty
* territorial + inclined to RG -
resource-guard, which probably will include food, personal space, body-handling especially paws, their bones, favored toys, etc, and MAY include You - or the space around U

i would get him neutered ASAP - as his testosterone levels will continue to rise, thru puberty and into his 9th month, THEN they fall - so getting him snipped before puberty will greatly reduce aggro, and also reduce the reaction of other-Ms to him - all behavior being a conversation, intact-Ms are the butt of much intolerance + assaults from other M-dogs.
the sooner he is snipped, the better.

...at the moment he lets me stroke him while he eats,lets me pick him up and carry him, is there anything i need to do now or bear in mind for the future... it's a credit to his nature that he lets anyone near him after what's happened...

i would not pester him whist he eats; but tossing an extra-GOOD tidbit into his food while U pass by is a good thing - it teaches him to welcome passers-by, as they may be bearing gifts. ;-)
handling his paws so that U can grind down his claws or remove thorns, etc, is very important -



and for a laid-out step-by-step training plan, Levels Training -

[CorkyMax]

WOW!!
Sounds like you are going to have your hands full, Gary!

[cookie]

Wondering if there are any updates on this story.......Gary?

[gary]

hi cookie ,i was going to leave a message tomorow ,i hadn't forgotten about the help you've all given me here, he's safe and well and waiting for a flight back to the uk

i just got back from the main camp on sunday night (bastion) where i had to take him , i'd been in touch with a woman who has a charity "baghdadcatrescue " and she has merged with the nowzad dog charity which is organising his trip home , i had to get him to her somehow so i met up with some of her security staff at the main gate , they kept him over night on their camp outside the main camp and left for kandahar the next morning, unfortunately they were hit by an ambush on the way back and arrived 6 hours late, and she had no news as to his whereabouts or if he was still with them , after a very long 3 hours she phoned to say he was ok and eating her slippers in her room , he left on sunday for kabul and arrived 14 hours later and is now in the shelter there
he has a news item on him on both sites with some pictures before and after he lost his ears
i made a little harness for him out of an old camelbak water carrier so he wouldn't run off, it was a pretty traunatic time for him after living in a 20 square metre patch of mud for 4 of the 5 months of his life, i've uploaded some pictures of him for you to have a look at before we left , i'll post some more when i see him next in the uk ,i'll be back there in may so he'll be huge by then i should think ,i'll keep you all posted

[CorkyMax]

I was just wondering yesterday myself, if everything was okay --Thanks Cookie for asking! I am so glad things are going as planned--While reading your post---I had a 'bad second/moment' when you didn't know what happened after the ambush. I did find my book- 'From Baghdad, With Love'---About a LTCOL Jay Kopelman (and the author, with Melinda Roth) who got a dog out of there like you are doing! You prob. don't need any info from it now and I would send it to you but prob. cost an arm and a leg for postage! If you do have a few specific questions on things that might be of help (and if it is in this book)--Let me know and I'll see what I can find! He named his dog Lava! Lol, now I am going to have to read this book over as I forgot most of it. Thought I had given it away but found it by accident just a day or 2 ago in my garage--Guess it was slated for the garbage next time I cleaned the garage! I read it about 3-4 years ago (copyright-2006).

Glad things are going so good and do keep us posted---For sure want to know that you and the dog get home safely! Good luck!:mrgreen:
Thanks for the updated pics. He is still a good looking dog, ears or not! Wonder if you will have to clean his ears (what is left) often to make sure he doesn't pick up bacteria and infections since his 'ears' are 'so out there' Good home-made solution is 1 part vinegar to 2-3 parts water. Just put in with a 'dropper'--Have nice size free for the asking at the pharmacy at Walmart --here anyway. Lol, I know--1st things first but it came to mind and if I didn't mention about it all now--I prob. would of forgot later!

[Lara's mom]

I'm so glad to hear that the little guy is on his way to the U.K. and a whole new life. I'm hoping with all my heart that you'll be joining him VERY soon!!!

[Todd]

I am glad as well. Thanks for the update!

[cookie]

Wow, that's terrific! Thanks for the update, Gary! I'm so glad it seems to be going well. He is going to be huge, from the looks of him. He looks great though, and his ears look so much better now that they are healed.

I was wondering the same thing as Corky/Max about his ears--they will be open to just about everything.

We'll just have to knit some little hats for him once he gets home!! :-D

Keep the pics and updates coming as you can, and thanks again Gary!

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by cookie

Wow, that's terrific! Thanks for the update, Gary! I'm so glad it seems to be going well. He is going to be huge, from the looks of him. He looks great though, and his ears look so much better now that they are healed.

I was wondering the same thing as Corky/Max about his ears--they will be open to just about everything.

We'll just have to knit some little hats for him once he gets home!! :-D

Keep the pics and updates coming as you can, and thanks again Gary!

Lol, maybe some kind of ear muffs---Make it look like he is listening to music! Would have to be thin material so he could still be able to hear though. Hey, lol, I'm 'half-a*s serious!