[angiesample]

would like to get peoples opinions/thoughts on the pros and cons of prong collars.. Why would or would u not use them? Thanks for ur thought in advance

[Todd]

I think I remember answering a question like this in the past but can't find the exact thread...

I am 100% against both of the. Pain is NOT the answer when it comes to dog training. If I had to choose I'd probably use a prong collar over a chocker collar to reduce the chance of injury to the neck area but I would NEVER recommend either. All it will do is cause additional problems in certain tempremented dogs and is still a bad idea in any other situation. Violence is NOT the answer in dog training and these collars are painful for the dog. It's like a parent. should you beat your child to get them to cooperate with you? I don't think so...

[Lara's mom]

I wouldn't use them either. They remind me of medieval torture devices!

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I wouldn't use them either. They remind me of medieval torture devices!

They ARE medieval torture devices!

[Todd]

Originally Posted by GNeedham

I use a choker chain on all the dogs. The purpose of these chains, or any type of slip chain is not to inflict pain but rather to be able to control and prevent a dog from backing out of a regular collar. They are there for our safety, the safety of people around you and for the dogs safety.

I dont know how many dogs I have seen back up and out of a nice fancy band collar and get away from an owner. Whats more responsible, safer, and better for the dog when that happens ?

When you train a dog properly they will never pull on the leash causing the chain to tighten. You use these chains in order to train and not to restrain.

If you're worried about the dog slipping out of the collar why not just use a harness or gentle leader then?

[Lunareclipse]

I think they are cruel. Pain isn't a good way to train a dog. Although I do give Buster a good swat on the rear end when he cuts the circulation off in my legs.

[nattiej1976]

there are some strong arguments against the use of these sorts of collars, many of which I would not fully argue against.

In saying that, they can be usefull tools in some instances, and if a dog owner chooses to try these tools they should do so with the FULL knowlege on how to use them without causing pain or damage.

We use a slip collar for training, and head collars for walking, these decisions were made after trial and error and much expense in buying all of the possible training aids.

The most dangerous issues arising from things like the pinch or slip collars is poor fitting, inferior products, being put on the wrong way (yes they have to be put on a certain way), hard tugging (these chains should be only used with the smallest amount of resistence, once again can only be accheived if the correct size is being used, and often this may mean removing links to make the size exactly correct), and owners leaving their dogs in them for long periods of time or whilst a dog is unattended (these chains can snag and choke.)

If used they should not be left on a dog at ANY time when they are not being used for their training purpose.

[nattiej1976]

Originally Posted by Todd

If you're worried about the dog slipping out of the collar why not just use a harness or gentle leader then?

Some people are lucky enough to be able to use a harness for walking, but in many cases they can make walking a disaster, for breeds (to be politically correct I really should say, detirmined dogs regardless of breed ) that are inclined to pull.

Gentle leaders can be dodgy too sometimes, we had Kato properly fitted for them twice and both leaders he was able to slip. We still use them, because they gave us good control when walking but we run a second lead through his everyday leather collar too, just incase he slips the leader, (and also to let daughter hold and walk with a lead too). Master Hudini he is

I really want to add too, and dont get me wrong, this comment is not to demerit a well reputed training/ walking aid. Head collars/ gentle leaders/ haltis, (trying to cover all names i have heard them to be reffered too) can also cause damage if not used correctly. I cringe when i see someone using these types of collars with long leads or retractable lines, I have seen dogs in this scenario, take off after something of interest, build up resonable speed then hit the end of the line and watch their heads and neck whip right around with the sudden impact, or owners over correcting on them causing the same whip of the head and neck.

At the end of the day, all these tools have their own pros and cons, none of them should cause ANY sort of pain, and if they do they are not being used correctly.
With correct use, they ALL (and that includes the gentle leaders) cause an uncomfortable sensation of some sort which is meant to discourage a dog from performing that action again. Hence the reason why they are called training tools

[GSDS4Life]

I don't like the prongs at all. And not once have I seen them being used properly. As for the slip/choke, again they are being used wrong. And they should not be used for a dog that is a puller. Yes the halti can do damage also. I have seen this with a friends Dane. If the dog is cacking out of a flat collar, well then that's because it isn't on properly. It should not be on loose. You should be able to fit 2 fingers in it.

I love the Martengale. For those who don't know what it is, google it. LOL

Also, this may sound a bit harsh and sorry if it does. But most of the time if an owner needs to use training tools like the prong or choke, it's the owner who has failed in training. How many times have you seen an owner with a pup who is pulling? They think it's cute. But it's not so cute when the pup is bigger and has gained 20lbs. There is a difference having your dog "walk" in front as apposed to "pulling". Rule of thumb, don't let the pup do something you don't want it to do when it's older. Training starts from day one. And needs to be consistent.

I am working with my neighbour who has adopted a Great Pyre who is a puller. This is a 130lb dog. We are making great progress with Kalli. And we are not using a prong or choke on her.

[angiesample]

GSDS4life- I googled those Martengale collars and i realized thats the kind of collar ive been using recently, i just didnt know thats what they were called..lol. I found mine at petsmart but online of course they have some really pretty once...

My sister in law uses it too and we have puppies from the same litter.. they are 10 month old; Aussie, Border Collie, Heeler mix.. saying that there high energy is an understatement!! lol... I dont really use this collar bc my dog pulls, i started leash training her right away so she knows how to walk, but it makes me feel better knowing that this collar isnt going to slip off.

[gambler-girl]

I have had many dogs and sadly one I needed a pinch, she was even very small 25lbs. but with any other collar she would pull so hard it would almost cut her. Pinch and she walked perfectly, and didn't hurt herself. what is wrong with that? what if that made it so a owner could take their dog for a walk and without no walk or worse have to give dog up but with a pinch can keep a dog, I have seen this a few times.
What bothers me the most is dog trainers instaed of thraining the people how to walk a dog the sell them pinch collars, these people are not trainers.

GG

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by angiesample

GSDS4life- I googled those Martengale collars and i realized thats the kind of collar ive been using recently, i just didnt know thats what they were called..lol. I found mine at petsmart but online of course they have some really pretty once.

Many people don't know the name but use it.LOL. Hey I didn't know the name of it when I started using it years ago. I just knew I liked it. LOL. And I love them. Your dog can't slip out of them.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

I have had many dogs and sadly one I needed a pinch, she was even very small 25lbs. but with any other collar she would pull so hard it would almost cut her. Pinch and she walked perfectly, and didn't hurt herself. what is wrong with that? what if that made it so a owner could take their dog for a walk and without no walk or worse have to give dog up but with a pinch can keep a dog, I have seen this a few times.
What bothers me the most is dog trainers instaed of thraining the people how to walk a dog the sell them pinch collars, these people are not trainers.

GG

Of course she walked perfectly, she was afraid if she didn't, she would get pinched again. Hence "pinch" is associated with pain. As I tell people, put it around your neck and give it a tug. Don't tell me it won't hurt, cause it does. Also some people just don't get the meaning of "training" tool. No different then a crate. Is it not a training tool for housebreaking? So why is the poor dog housetrained and is STILL being locked in it all day? I would rather see my dogs stretched out on the couch,walk around or be able to look out the window. All this when we are at work.

As for trainers, well anyone can call themselves a trainer. I know quite a few certified trainers, they will never ever let you in their facility if you have a pinch/choke on your dog. If you still want them to train, well you go by their rules, which is no prong/choke. Why? Cause they know that a dog CAN be trained not using them.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

Many people don't know the name but use it.LOL. Hey I didn't know the name of it when I started using it years ago. I just knew I liked it. LOL. And I love them. Your dog can't slip out of them.



Of course she walked perfectly, she was afraid if she didn't, she would get pinched again. Hence "pinch" is associated with pain. As I tell people, put it around your neck and give it a tug. Don't tell me it won't hurt, cause it does. Also some people just don't get the meaning of "training" tool. No different then a crate. Is it not a training tool for housebreaking? So why is the poor dog housetrained and is STILL being locked in it all day? I would rather see my dogs stretched out on the couch,walk around or be able to look out the window. All this when we are at work.

As for trainers, well anyone can call themselves a trainer. I know quite a few certified trainers, they will never ever let you in their facility if you have a pinch/choke on your dog. If you still want them to train, well you go by their rules, which is no prong/choke. Why? Cause they know that a dog CAN be trained not using them.

I think the main thing with the pincher collar is that is lessons the chance of the dog developing trachea damage, however this doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or cause the dog pain. It does, and as I said before, I don't opersonally approve of their use...

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by Todd

I think the main thing with the pincher collar is that is lessons the chance of the dog developing trachea damage, however this doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or cause the dog pain. It does, and as I said before, I don't opersonally approve of their use...

Unfortunately Todd, when used wrong it actually can cause trachea damage.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen dogs wearing the prong and still pulling. And gasping and choking at the same time. Imagine the damage there. And what gets me is the owners are doing nothing. They are literally letting the dog to continue to pull.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

Unfortunately Todd, when used wrong it actually can cause trachea damage.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen dogs wearing the prong and still pulling. And gasping and choking at the same time. Imagine the damage there. And what gets me is the owners are doing nothing. They are literally letting the dog to continue to pull.

Well, yes I can imagine it doing so if used incorrectly. On that note I feel avoiding these methods all together is the most successful method to be honest...

[gambler-girl]

MY DOG WAS NOT AFRAID. Do you really want to attack me? I would think twice about that, because you don't know crap about dogs. You think because you meet a couple of 'certified trainers' LOL... that you know about my dogs? sheesh.... I would insult you, but you are not even worth that ....

GG

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

Of course she walked perfectly, she was afraid if she didn't, she would get pinched again. Hence "pinch" is associated with pain. As I tell people, put it around your neck and give it a tug. Don't tell me it won't hurt, cause it does. Also some people just don't get the meaning of "training" tool. No different then a crate. Is it not a training tool for housebreaking? So why is the poor dog housetrained and is STILL being locked in it all day? I would rather see my dogs stretched out on the couch,walk around or be able to look out the window. All this when we are at work.

As for trainers, well anyone can call themselves a trainer. I know quite a few certified trainers, they will never ever let you in their facility if you have a pinch/choke on your dog. If you still want them to train, well you go by their rules, which is no prong/choke. Why? Cause they know that a dog CAN be trained not using them.

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

MY DOG WAS NOT AFRAID. Do you really want to attack me? I would think twice about that, because you don't know crap about dogs. You think because you meet a couple of 'certified trainers' LOL... that you know about my dogs? sheesh.... I would insult you, but you are not even worth that ....

GG

HELLO I did NOT say she was AFRAID of you. God read the post.

I know MORE about dogs then you ever will in a lifetime. YOU have no clue about me. So get off your high horse.

[gambler-girl]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

HELLO I did NOT say she was AFRAID of you. God read the post.

I know MORE about dogs then you ever will in a lifetime. YOU have no clue about me. So get off your high horse.

I think you need to reread the first line on my last post and the first line of your last post because you are the one that can not read. I did not write afaid of me did I? NO But that is what you insinuated, as you read it you could not help yourself from reading it the way you intended. It shows your lack of character, I am sorry to tell you. Also they way you judge people as being beneath you is unbecoming, "I would never creat a dog" or "I would never use a pinch" and anyone that does.... I am sure you know very little of dogs because you have a novice approach, being "all knowing." When you know alot, then you realise there is so much more to learn.

GG

[Yogi]

Please refrain from personal attacks and stay on topic or this thread will be closed. Future personal attacks will result in ban from forum.

[nattiej1976]

hmmmmm, nattie is starting to remember why she slowly disapeared from this forum a couple of years ago!