Need help with my male dogs fighting!please!

andrewglass · 06-13-2010

I think this is the right section. We have 4 dogs, 2 samoyed's and 2 english bulldogs.1 female and male of each. We had and do plan on breeding our 2 year old male 85 LB english bulldog ONCE with a friend of ours who has one so we hadn't got him fixed yet. The male samoyed I'm not sure why we didn't get around to fixing him yet but he's about 1 and a half. They have always all been amazing dogs and have always got along great with each other and played awesome. They even regularly visit my wife's nursing home all of them on regular request( we now only bring the females in )

About maybe 2-3 months ago the male bulldog and male samoyed starting fighting and it's got worse. It would be about once a week then once a night then now if they see each other they go into this HORRIBLE HORRIBLE dog fighting scene. The samoyed always starts it with the growing and the bulldog kind of perks up then the samoyed always goes after him first. We have scheduled the samoyed to be fixed this tuesday because he seems to be the one which has the biggest problem. The bulldog will walk around fine but the samoyed will never take his eye off of him then start the growling. The weird thing is they are fine on walks and even will play and lick each other then 2 minutes later they are brawling. I always pull them off asap and seperate them which seems to make it worse when they see each other.

Now my next problem is the bulldog. After the samoyed jumps him for the next maybe hour or so he's very aggressive like... If you stand up to him and no him or back him down for doing something he'll growl.. and it came to a head when he backed my wife down tonight for telling him no and standing up about a hour after the 2 dogs fought(put her in tears). So we're thinking about getting him fixed now.. My worry is.. will getting 1 or both dogs fixed correct this or do we need to really think about getting rid of one of the males and they are to far along in trying to be dominate?

My wife's boss had 2 males with the same problem and finally they let them fight it out while watching to make sure it didnt get to bad and they solved it and they don't fight anymore... Do we try shocker colars if fixing doesn't work? I mean the samoyed would go first.. we love him but we could find him a good home but I love the bulldog so much and I couldn't go without him honestly he goes everywhere with me. They have never growled EVER at any other person and are great around other dogs male or female.. I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLY need help or opinions please!!!!

EDIT- Right now it's gotten bad enough we can't let the dogs in the same room together unless one is crated. so we keep them on seperate floors.. Of course they are fine going outside and going to the bathroom together. The samoyed ALWAYS ALWAYS starts the growling and fighting first.

Yogi · 06-13-2010

At this time you have 2 intact males of breeding age and they know it. They are vying for status and territory. This puts both of you on the low end of the totem pole so to speak until it is resolved. Both need to be neutered. Are the females spayed? If not, this could also cause this problem to worsen especially if they come into season. Other likely issue is this is seasonal time for bitches and even the scent of one in season anywhere can be picked up by a male intact causing much of this behavior.

andrewglass · 06-13-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi

At this time you have 2 intact males of breeding age and they know it. They are vying for status and territory. This puts both of you on the low end of the totem pole so to speak until it is resolved. Both need to be neutered. Are the females spayed? If not, this could also cause this problem to worsen especially if they come into season. Other likely issue is this is seasonal time for bitches and even the scent of one in season anywhere can be picked up by a male intact causing much of this behavior.

One of the females is spayed. The other is my wife's samoyed. She's had her before we were married and had hoped to breed her once. She is about 8 or 9 once so it's to late to spay her. They don't really bother her much but I see what you are saying. I know it's a territory issue and the samoyed def picks on the female more the the bulldog(if he does at all). So you think the neutering may work thats good. We're hoping neutering the male samoyed will correct the issue as we're going to try that first and give it a month. If no luck then we're going to neuter the bulldog too.. His aggression is scary because we're not going to put up with that and Honestly I don't know what I would do without that dog. So it may be a good idea to fix him to be safe I guess, We just REALLY wanted puppies once.Cutest male bulldog ever.

The male samoyed has never growled at us even after the fights and the bulldog NEVER does normally but after he's jumped by the samoyed he's a little aggressive towards us for the next maybe hour or 2 and we need to let him settle down.

Yogi · 06-14-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewglass

One of the females is spayed. The other is my wife's samoyed. She's had her before we were married and had hoped to breed her once. She is about 8 or 9 once so it's to late to spay her. They don't really bother her much but I see what you are saying. I know it's a territory issue and the samoyed def picks on the female more the the bulldog(if he does at all). So you think the neutering may work thats good. We're hoping neutering the male samoyed will correct the issue as we're going to try that first and give it a month. If no luck then we're going to neuter the bulldog too.. His aggression is scary because we're not going to put up with that and Honestly I don't know what I would do without that dog. So it may be a good idea to fix him to be safe I guess, We just REALLY wanted puppies once.Cutest male bulldog ever.

The male samoyed has never growled at us even after the fights and the bulldog NEVER does normally but after he's jumped by the samoyed he's a little aggressive towards us for the next maybe hour or 2 and we need to let him settle down.

The Bulldog is left is a defense mode after these altercations which explains his attitude toward the 2 of you. As for the female Samoyed, yes she can and should be spayed. You are increasing health issues if she has never been bred especially at her age. Spaying can still be done.

Todd · 06-14-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi

The Bulldog is left is a defense mode after these altercations which explains his attitude toward the 2 of you. As for the female Samoyed, yes she can and should be spayed. You are increasing health issues if she has never been bred especially at her age. Spaying can still be done.

I agree. The dogs NEED to bre fixed because it is a fight over dominance/terriotry. Could be fighting over who breeds with the unaltered female. Female needs fixed too. Males most importantly. Have you ever seen two brids fighting during mating season? They are fighting over females.

reeskujo · 06-14-2010

i agree with Todd and Yogi...They need to be neutered ASAP...As for the female even though she's older as long as she his healthy Yogi's right she can still be spayed...

As for the two males who are fighting,just because your Sammy is the first one to growl and attack it does not mean he's actually the one to start it...

Your Bulldog may be exhibiting some body language towards your other dog that you are not aware of and this may be what's causing your Sammy to attack him...

if your not trained in dog behavior it may make it difficult to tell..

Some of the things to look for in your Bulldog are stiffness in his legs are body,if his head is down or sightly turned to the side,if his tail is straight out and if he's squinting his eyes...if he's doing any or all of these things in view of your other dog that may be what's setting him off...

Just something to watch for and it's still possible that it is your Sammy that's provoking it...Their obviously fighting for territory and status...

How are they as far as obedience and listening to commands that you and your wife give them? Do you need to repeat yourselves more then once?

If they're not seeing you both as the alpha's and the ones in charge this can make the fighting much worse!

keep us updated!

Todd · 06-15-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by reeskujo

i agree with Todd and Yogi...They need to be neutered ASAP...As for the female even though she's older as long as she his healthy Yogi's right she can still be spayed...

As for the two males who are fighting,just because your Sammy is the first one to growl and attack it does not mean he's actually the one to start it...

Your Bulldog may be exhibiting some body language towards your other dog that you are not aware of and this may be what's causing your Sammy to attack him...

if your not trained in dog behavior it may make it difficult to tell..

Some of the things to look for in your Bulldog are stiffness in his legs are body,if his head is down or sightly turned to the side,if his tail is straight out and if he's squinting his eyes...if he's doing any or all of these things in view of your other dog that may be what's setting him off...

Just something to watch for and it's still possible that it is your Sammy that's provoking it...Their obviously fighting for territory and status...

How are they as far as obedience and listening to commands that you and your wife give them? Do you need to repeat yourselves more then once?

If they're not seeing you both as the alpha's and the ones in charge this can make the fighting much worse!

keep us updated!

Speaking of body language take a look at these links. They may help. The first one has diagrams so is especially interesting if your a visual person...

Dog Body Language Diagrams

Body Language in Dogs: how to read what your dog is saying, from Stacy's Wag'N'Train

andrewglass · 06-17-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by reeskujo

i agree with Todd and Yogi...They need to be neutered ASAP...As for the female even though she's older as long as she his healthy Yogi's right she can still be spayed...

As for the two males who are fighting,just because your Sammy is the first one to growl and attack it does not mean he's actually the one to start it...

Your Bulldog may be exhibiting some body language towards your other dog that you are not aware of and this may be what's causing your Sammy to attack him...

if your not trained in dog behavior it may make it difficult to tell..

Some of the things to look for in your Bulldog are stiffness in his legs are body,if his head is down or sightly turned to the side,if his tail is straight out and if he's squinting his eyes...if he's doing any or all of these things in view of your other dog that may be what's setting him off...

Just something to watch for and it's still possible that it is your Sammy that's provoking it...Their obviously fighting for territory and status...

How are they as far as obedience and listening to commands that you and your wife give them? Do you need to repeat yourselves more then once?

If they're not seeing you both as the alpha's and the ones in charge this can make the fighting much worse!

keep us updated!

They are great with commands and listen amazingly. However when they are fighting they won't listen at all. Kodi the samoyed got neutered yesterday and dozer is scheduled for tuesday. It's gotten MUCH MUCH worse with now dozer starting almost all the fights. Although he was jumped quite a few times leading up to this. We can't keep them togather without fighting I just pray to god this fixes this. My wife almost refuses to get her dog spayed so I hope neutering the males does this, We have also been in contact with a dog behaviorist which can come to the house IF this doesn't work. I know it'll take 2-3 months to see improvement but we can only hope. When they start fighting I can pull dozer away but anyone else he turns and grows towards them.. he never does this any other time but in the middle of these fights or within a hour after if you strongly correct him he will show some aggressive growling but he's a unnuetered male. I hope this helps...

Yogi · 06-17-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewglass

They are great with commands and listen amazingly. However when they are fighting they won't listen at all. Kodi the samoyed got neutered yesterday and dozer is scheduled for tuesday. It's gotten MUCH MUCH worse with now dozer starting almost all the fights. Although he was jumped quite a few times leading up to this. We can't keep them togather without fighting I just pray to god this fixes this. My wife almost refuses to get her dog spayed so I hope neutering the males does this, We have also been in contact with a dog behaviorist which can come to the house IF this doesn't work. I know it'll take 2-3 months to see improvement but we can only hope. When they start fighting I can pull dozer away but anyone else he turns and grows towards them.. he never does this any other time but in the middle of these fights or within a hour after if you strongly correct him he will show some aggressive growling but he's a unnuetered male. I hope this helps...

One thing to note, when a dog comes back from a vet they carry a new scent which can trigger another dog to become irritated. Though dogs can see and in fact can see colors, they rely on scent. In addition, dogs can sense when another is weak and play on this. The dog returning from the vet carries this new scent and is weak from the surgery which in turn is more likely the cause for more aggression from the other at this time. Though it is not recommended to bath the dog yet, best you can do is keep the 2 apart. Note also that a male of breeding age can often after being neutered still act on a bitch in season. It is disappointing that your wife will not spay the bitch. The males could still become territorial but hopefully not as much. Only time will tell from this point on.

reeskujo · 06-17-2010

One good reason you may want to give your wife for spaying and I know Yogi will agree with me is Pyometra...

It's a severe uterine infection that older female dogs who were not spayed by 6 mths or bred can get...it's not only very common but can be fatal if not treated in time...

This why at the age of 5yrs when I was done breeding my females they were spayed...maybe if your wife understands she putting her female at risk for this she may reconsider...

All you need to do is google pyometra in female dogs and you can get all the info on it....As Yogi has stated even if your males are fixed if the female isn't it can still cause some aggression in the males...

Please don't take this the wrong way but I can't understand why your wife refuses to spay her and put her health at risk...if the female is healthy there's no justifiable reason not to spay her,

Yogi · 06-17-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by reeskujo

One good reason you may want to give your wife for spaying and I know Yogi will agree with me is Pyometra...

It's a severe uterine infection that older female dogs who were not spayed by 6 mths or bred can get...it's not only very common but can be fatal if not treated in time...

This why at the age of 5yrs when I was done breeding my females they were spayed...maybe if your wife understands she putting her female at risk for this she may reconsider...

All you need to do is google pyometra in female dogs and you can get all the info on it....As Yogi has stated even if your males are fixed if the female isn't it can still cause some aggression in the males...

Please don't take this the wrong way but I can't understand why your wife refuses to spay her and put her health at risk...if the female is healthy there's no justifiable reason not to spay her,

Totally agree.

andrewglass · 06-18-2010

I totally understand, in all honestly I'm 10000000000% in favor of having her spayed. HOWEVER I'm not going to go against my wife's strong wishes. I don't think I was very clear on her(pepsi). She is literally one of the most wonderful dogs you'll ever meet in your life. We use to literally leave her at home for 12-14 hour period at times(I mean like 3-4 times a year) and she would be fine. My wife works at a nursing home and pepsi comes in almost once a week to be with the residents and REALLY chears them up and literally is left to walk around and she'll walk up to residents and rest her head on them and everything.. She really is a great girl. If I talked my wife into spaying her and something happened we would have pretty strong marrital problems and she would be pretty close to a mental break down.. that dog is everything to her. It's something we talk about but I'm not sure we want to risk it.

Back to the male dogs...We took them for a 20 minute walk to my mothers house and stayed there for about 2-3 hours. They were amazing, Walked great and laid next to each other/licked each other all day. We got home and we kept them away from each other as best as we could kodi growed a little bit from his crate at dozer which started him perking up but we quickly stoped it. We are trying to keep them seperated at home as much as possible until there testostrone levels go down, Also since kodi is still healing we don't want them to fight and him tear anything open. The fact that when we have people over or take them places they love on each other and are AMAZING togather makes me have hope it's not a they just hate each other thing.

A side note, Just by chance dozer is getting neutered june 22nd this tuesday and it's exactly his 2nd birthday!