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Old 08-29-2011   #21 (permalink)
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My dogs are pretty similar to yours. One if definitely dominate. The other not so much. Sometimes my dominate one will try to force her weight around in front of me but I always correct her. Why? Because I'm in charge, not her. Our dogs also look to us to take charge and when we don't that's when more serious issues start happening. On the same note, the dogs (both) start losing trust that we can handle the situation.

I think the difference's between how you handle it & I do are the following:
-Catching the aggressor before it touches the other dog (although mine has not seriously hurt him). I know my girl (aggressor) starts by stiffening and staring intensely at the boy. She has her tell signs that I try to tune in to.

-Making them submit to your authority with 1, single, verbal correction; while you physically move in towards the aggressor until they willingly (& physically) back off, turn their head away from other dog and lose focus of the other. That to me is submitting.

I feel when you physically manipulate a dog to move by pulling them away or alpha rolling they aren't really submitting to you but instead are forced to. When they willingly back off from your pressure then you are gaining real ground.

If on the other hand they are in full battle then it's a different approach and you just separate them as best as possible. That's why it's more important to look for the cue's and snap them out of it before it escalates. At this point there's nothing for them to learn from. So, imo the muzzling or time outs dont mean much.

I also agree that the dogs are confused. I think you need to reel in the reigns and re-establish the ground work with them both again. I know for myself, as the dogs get older, I tend to slack on making them work for things. Then some unwanted behavior will start emerging which I take as a reality check to reel them back in & tidy ship, so to speak. It's just a refresher to keep them in check. If you don't make them work for their food, treats, playtime, pets, walks, work it back in. I understand they are good dogs but reinforcing your status in their world can only help. Dogs really do appreciate structure, which I'm sure you know, but like I said, we tend to slip up once in awhile. And dogs notice everything!

Hopefully my idea's are food for thought. BTW my female has had issues with food aggression since she was a little pup, so unless I am there w/100% attention on them I will only feed them separately. Otherwise, I will correct, redirect, correct, redirect. I do feel something is working as I feel like now she is more "food stingy" then food aggressive..LOL still getting there!
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A rolled up newspaper can be an effective training tool when used properly. For instance, use the rolled-up newspaper if your dog chews up something inappropriate or has a housebreaking accident. Bring the dog over to the destroyed object (or mess), then take the rolled-up newspaper and hit yourself over the head as you repeat the phrase,"I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG, I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG!"

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Old 08-30-2011   #22 (permalink)
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For lange.

Wow!! I can really relate to all that you have said in your post and it make so much sense to me.

For 2 days now I have not been treating Black as dominant. (bases on advice from here) I have treated them both the same though.
Because I have been with them more than normal I have been much stricter and they have been working harder for everything, I have been constantly correcting any bad behaviour from white. So far so good, no fights in 2 days.
I can see that White is so much more responsive and Black has gone back to the same laid-back girl before the fights.

I know this will take a long time for me to get over, probably longer than the dogs!! but I also know I am a long way off before I can relax. it will always be there lurking in the shadows.
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Old 08-30-2011   #23 (permalink)
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I'm glad things are already improving! I think that means it's not as serious as you might have thought. (mine either thankfully!)

It is a wise idea to either treat them the same or give White more preference but only if she's following the rules & earning it. I give preference to whichever of my dogs is most calm and focused on me at any given moment which turns out to be the dominate one more than not!

As you feel more confident in understanding what the problem was you'll relax more. I never see it as a personal thing, like "Kuma/White is bad. Wrigley/Black is the good dog." Because that's really not true or the issue. It's not personal to them, & it shouldn't be for you, it's just a red flag that something is missing. At least in situations like these. Keep up what you're doing!
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A rolled up newspaper can be an effective training tool when used properly. For instance, use the rolled-up newspaper if your dog chews up something inappropriate or has a housebreaking accident. Bring the dog over to the destroyed object (or mess), then take the rolled-up newspaper and hit yourself over the head as you repeat the phrase,"I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG, I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG!"
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Old 08-30-2011   #24 (permalink)
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I give attention to whatever dog is closest to me at the time. Maybe that's why they all try to pile on my lap all the time?
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Old 08-31-2011   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunareclipse View Post
I give attention to whatever dog is closest to me at the time. Maybe that's why they all try to pile on my lap all the time?
Probably! lol But with petting it's hard not to
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A rolled up newspaper can be an effective training tool when used properly. For instance, use the rolled-up newspaper if your dog chews up something inappropriate or has a housebreaking accident. Bring the dog over to the destroyed object (or mess), then take the rolled-up newspaper and hit yourself over the head as you repeat the phrase,"I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG, I FORGOT TO WATCH MY DOG!"
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Old 08-31-2011   #26 (permalink)
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Shelley, I'm glad to hear things are getting better..I think if you follow the advice from Lange ad myself like you have been things will resolve themselves..It sounds like you're doing a great job!..Keep us updated.
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