[shelley]

good evening every one.
I have come to this forum as after 15 years of owning peaceful newfoundlands I have 2 females aged 3 1/2 who are having more frequent fights. getting rather nasty. They are my only dogs and spend most of their days outside. that are not sisters but only 4 weeks age gap..

Only one instigates the fight by going on top of the other and then the fight begins. lets call the agresser "white" an the other "black" "black is just not aggressive at all unless she has no choice. "black always wins the fight!!)

The reasons these fights start.
when called in, "black" will not always come straight away. ( typical newfie!) "white" will tell challange "black" by jumping ontop of "black" and the fight begins.

when my eldest son pets "black" . "white" will jump on top and start a fight.

once, a friend petted "black" and "white" started a fight.

" black" will sometimes not come for petting, she seems scared sometimes of "white"

Please help me, they are both wonderful dogs and are inseperable. "white" is currently muzzled as a fight has just finished. The fights are becoming more frequent.

What have I done so far?

We think "black should be the top dog.
"Black is fed first ( now seperatly) and petted first.

no toys are available any more.

I have tonight pinned "white" down and she has submitted completely to me. this was done after she was muzzled.

we were planning to breed from them both this winter but that has been put on hold until we have happy dogs.

I am generally very good with the dogs and training. but I could not stop the fighting.

please advise.

Thank you for taking the time to read, I may have missed important info out but fell free to ask me questions before helping.

[Lunareclipse]

One of my saint bernards peed on top of the other one. And they got into a fight over it. I actually tackled the one at fault and held him down until he quit moving. They haven't been in a fight since then. I do use an airhorn for when they get too hyper. Maybe you can carry an airhorn and use it to scare the living daylights out of them when they fight. They key is to do it as soon as one jumps on the other and try to stop it before the fight begins. The only person who should "win" the fight is you. Not your dogs. They start it. You finish it.

[reeskujo]

Keep in mind that a muzzle should not be worn for longer then 20 minutes..As a former Akita breeder I can tell you that the one who is starting the fights should not be bred!!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by reeskujo

Keep in mind that a muzzle should not be worn for longer then 20 minutes..As a former Akita breeder I can tell you that the one who is starting the fights should not be bred!!

Thank you both for your replies,

Can I ask why the muzzle should not be worn for more than 20 mins?

I have been reading some of "TODD'S" posts on dog behaviour, am I right in thinking BLACK should be the dominant one?

[Lunareclipse]

YOU should be the dominant one. Not any of your dogs.

[reeskujo]

Muzzles prevent dogs from panting when their to hot and since that's the way they cool down they shouldn't have one on longer then that..
As for who the dominant one is Luna is right it should be you not the dogs however as far as just the dogs go it doesn't matter who you think the dominant one should be..It's up to the two of them to decide.

[Lara's mom]

I may be way off but, I was told that a muzzle should only be used when an agressive dog is in the company of other dogs, unless it is a case of the dog being agressive against people. From what I've been told, the basket muzzle is best because it allows lots of breathing room.
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[Lunareclipse]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I may be way off but, I was told that a muzzle should only be used when an agressive dog is in the company of other dogs, unless it is a case of the dog being agressive against people. From what I've been told, the basket muzzle is best because it allows lots of breathing room.
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I went to Petco looking for a basket muzzle because they can still eat and drink with them on. And they can open their mouth and pant too. The lady there told me that they don't sell them because they are cruel to animals. I bought one of those soft ones and Buster couldn't open his mouth and he couldn't drink any water. He was blowing air really hard after 5 minutes. I think the people that run Petco are a bunch of morons who couldn't find a dog's ass with two hands and a flashlight.

[lange]

Originally Posted by Lunareclipse

I went to Petco looking for a basket muzzle because they can still eat and drink with them on. And they can open their mouth and pant too. The lady there told me that they don't sell them because they are cruel to animals.

That's goofy.

[Lunareclipse]

Originally Posted by lange

That's goofy.

It really is. There is no place where I live that sells basket muzzles. I have to order them online.

[Lara's mom]

I bought one of the soft ones for Lance...You may remember him - the VERY aggressive male JRT that I had to rehome. I don't think he ever kept it on for more than three minutes no matter how tight I made it. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

[Ironwil]

I've read some of the other posts, and need to pipe in and clear some air. First, the primary problem is likely to be that they are spending most of their days outside. Newfoundlands are not outside dogs. Yes, they are physically capable of handling extremes in cold weather, but emotionally they need to be with their family. If your Newfies are exhibiting problem behaviors, like fighting, it is likely due to their lack of time with you.

Don't get caught up in the 'dominant' game. All that pack and dominance crap was propagated from a limited study on wolves in captivity. The study was completely invalid, for two simple reasons. The first is that dogs aren't wolves and haven't been for about 14,000 years. The second is that wolf packs in their natural habitat don't act anything like wolves in captivity. Wolf packs are generally families that work cooperatively, with very little intimidation and violence. Grabbing unrelated wolves and throwing them into a confined space is not a valid test of wolf behavior, even if dogs actually were still like wolves.

Honestly, my advice would be to bring your dogs inside, let them hang out with you, and start working obedience with them. What you decide to teach them isn't nearly as important as the fact that they'll enjoy this time together and it also increases the likeliness that they'll pay attention when you tell them to do something. Usually my response when people are having problems with their dogs goes like this:

• Vet - make certain the cause isn't sickness or injury.
• Exercise - this isn't a big deal with Newfies, but they still need daily walks.
• Obedience training - dogs need mental stimulation and humans need dogs with good manners.

I have Aussies, so my dogs' needs for exercise are pretty demanding. For awhile they were making a lot of noise, digging holes in my yard, and I had some fighting start up. After researching dog behavior and starting a training program, these problems have nearly vanished (no dog is ever perfect). Your Newfies will be happy with a 30 minute walk per day with you, and some play time, but the most important thing you could do at this point is bring them inside to stay with you.