[Blackrat1046]

Hi,

We are looking for some help!! we have a male shihtzu who is about 2 1/2 years old. Over recent weeks he has become more withdrawn towards my wife and I, and when we stroke him he growls or grumbles!! He has nipped the wife once as well. He was sucha playful chap but now is not fun to be with. This behaviour is only in the house. We are doing nothing differant at home, he is still intact!

We have been told he needs to be done as he thinks hes top dog in the house? He is fine with our 7 yr old. He still sits on command for his dinner etc.

Any ideas out there?

[reeskujo]

While I totally agree that he needs to be neutered I must say it really irks me when the first thing people say is "Oh the dog is trying to dominate you" when I can tell you as a trainer half the time they're wrong.

Whenever a dog is showing a new aggression the very first thing that needs to be done is for them to be checked by a vet to make sure there isn't an underlying health problem..It could be anything from a thyroid issue to a dog being in pain that can cause that.If a dog checks out medically then you start the work on behavior.

Keep in mind if he was trying to be dominant he'd be behaving aggressively with your other dog.Is there anything different going on in the home? Has his routine been changed at all? he may possibly have a problem with his vision..Again I would start with a visit to the vet.

[Blackrat1046]

Thank you for your advice, any advice is so much appreciated, we are desperate to have our little Bob back that we know and love. By 7 yr old we mean our daughter, not another dog. We only have Bob, he is much loved. As soon as he nipped me we took him to the vet and altho no tests were carried out, we were told he is a very fit and healthy dog.

We've haven't changed his routine at all, the only think I can think of is that I started to give him a little tit bit of Tuna when I was making my daughters sandwiches, or cheese or ham etc, on the vary rare occasion when I have finished my bagel with Philly cheese I would give him a bit of the cheese off of my finger.

Approx 8-10 months ago we stopped crating him at night, but its only in the last month or so has he started on this sad behaviour, he spends most of the day under the dining room table and sometimes if i perservere he comes out very slowly and with his tail down, when he eventually gets to me I stroke him and he grumbles which scares me, we say no, no growling. He must sense that it scares me (and I know I should be bold but its hard as it sounds like he means it, with his mouth going like he will show his teeth).

When we are out he is fine, altho last week I took him to a regular wooded walk and let him off the lead, for an hour he was fine but at the end of the walk he saw a man on a bike, he looked really scared and then scarpered, he ran and ran and ran, I had to run after him and eventually I found him, again it took ages for him to walk back to me, he looked really scared with his tail down.

What is wrong with my little boy, I love him so much, he's not like a pet dog anymore. I'm just so glad he is so lovely with our daughter.

[reeskujo]

Can you give me some info on what the situation was the very first time he growled or tried to bite? Where was he? What was he doing? What were you doing when he exhibited that behavior? Also who primarily feeds him?

Also where did you get him? Rescue,breeder,pet store?..If he was a rescue due you know about his background?

[CorkyMax]

I can't understand how a dog can be given a good bill of health unless blood work was done. Some health problems can not be determined by 'looks' alone. Maybe you need a 2nd vet's opinion and after blood work is done!

On another note--It sounds like your Bob may of had a bad experience with an adult that maybe you are unaware of. Think back to when this started---Was he left with another adult where something may of happened to bring on this behavior?

And getting back to the health question--Going to quote from my Breeds Book about Shih Tzus: Health Problems---The prominent eyes are prone to injury and tend to get dry from exposure, causing them to ulcerate. Shih Tzus are also subject to ear infections and inherited kidney problems, and they may suffer breathing difficulties in hot weather.--unquote. I especially think blood work is needed to rule out kidney problems. I don't know how good a vet you have (to me, sounds not so good if no blood work done!)--I hope he checked out the ears for an ear infection----This can be an inner ear infection that would have to be checked (tested) for. I went through that a while back with my Cocker Spaniel---He acted healthy and normal except he was staggering when he walked and I thought all kinds of bad things were happening. Medication for inner ear infection stopped it.

I am curious to see if things might change if you also allowed him access to his crate. In my breeds book it also states:--like to lounge about in their own particular spot. I wouldn't close the gate to it but just give him free access to it. Maybe it is like a security blanket to him.

Hope you figure it out--My breeds book also says: Endowed with loads of character, the gentle, loyal Shih Tzu makes friends easily and responds well to training. I can see your Bob is not acting normally and for sure something is bothering him---Good luck.

[Blackrat1046]

It would have been in the house somewhere, he is fine when we go out, we've just been out now, he was off the lead and came to me when I called him, he ran around with our daughter and let me stroke him/love him in the car and whilst we were out and its like old times..

The time he nipped me was understandable to a certain degree. He had one of those sticky bud things stuck to his beard, I noticed it whilst sitting on the sofa, I reached down and felt it, then reached down again and he nipped me on my finger, I really shouted and told him off and he went under the table.. I shouted alot as it scared me. But even weeks before then he used to growl when we stroked him, I think it started when he was laying on our bed a couple of months ago, when we would approach him he used to growl and grumble, he would be fine any other time but slowly I suppose he started to do it more often, and now whenever we go near him.

We both used to feed him, just gave him his food and if he didnt't eat it all it would stay there until he fancied it (he would hardly ever gobble it up) but since finding all this out we've been told to make him sit before food (husband works shifts so sometimes I feed him) On the first morning of making him sit it took until 1.40pm for him to sit !! I asked him about every 20 mins if he wanted breakfast, I took it off the side and and he walked over, I asked him to sit and he refused, I kept saying sit for breakfast, do you want your breakfast etc and then when he didnt I said 'no breakfast' and put it back on the side, then at 1.40pm I did the same again, he walked over licked his lips (he must have been starving) AND SAT! I praised him and he eat his breakfast.

He just seems so sad, please let me know if there is any other info you need, he runs around beautifully when he is taken out, he has a dog flap which gives him access to the garden all day and all night if he needs it.

Thanks again

We bought him from a breeder, he is a pedigree and we have all the papers, we saw both Mum and Dad.

[reeskujo]

When you're attempting to pet him,where on his body are you attempting to do it?..have you tried petting him under the chin instead? As for him growling when he was on the bed,he obviously thinks it's his spot so I would definitely not allow him on there. Making him sit for his food is definitely something that all dogs should be made to do..However if he refuses to sit when you ask him the first time do not continue repeating the command..Simply put the bowl away,wait about 15 minutes and try again. The problem with repeating commands is you're giving the dog attention when the dog is exhibiting a negative behavior (ignoring you) and that reinforces to him that it's exceptable...

Also be sure to reward him anytime he lets you pet him so he knows that's the behavior you want..it's very possible that the time he nipped you and you reacted with a loud yell as most of people would've has made him afraid of you..if you're attempting to pet him on his head and he's afraid of you that could very well be why he's exhibiting this behavior..When you go to pet a dog on the head once your hands have passed over their eyes they can no longer see what it is your doing and if a dog is afraid they will bite out of fear of being hurt since they can't see what you're attempting to do..try calling him to you,if he comes give him a treat after he's finished attempt to pet him under the chin and if he responds approprietly give him another treat to reward him..

I would also have to agree with Corky that without doing any blood work there's no way a vet can say with 100% accuracy that the dog is fine medically..breeds like yours are prone to ear infections so it's possible he has some type of pain that's being aggravated by physical contact..He could also have a thyroid problem which can cause aggression.

Keep in mind as well that the papers that a purebred dog comes with means nothing more then the dog is a purbred..It in no way assures that the puppy was bred from a genetically sound bloodline of from a bloodline that doesn't have aggression issues..I would for sure have bloodwork done at the very least a white blood cell count to check for an infection and have his thyroid tested.

[Blackrat1046]

Thank you so much for all your replies, we are definately going to try the treats when he comes to us and treats when he lets us pet him. I didn't think about him being scared of us - how awful...

I play fight with him all the time, he mouths me but never bites, we have such fun when he lets me do that, I try and do it every few days, maybe I will start doing it every day, that way it builds up my confidence in handling him again, I don't like to think I am scared of my own dog.

When he refused to sit for breakfast I made sure that I put it back on the top after a couple of attempts, i then left it for 20 mins or so and then tried again, I hasten to say that he now sits every time (it was a bit like controlled crying when my daughter was a baby - first night was hell but then it got quicker and quicker)

Can I say also that when visitors come in the house he is all over them, so pleased to see them, and again I have no worries about him hurting anyone, he is so friendly towards them, even tries to jump on the sofa and sit with them, which again he doesnt do with my husband or I anymore which leads me to believe that maybe he is scared of us... Ok will work on the treats and handling and report back

Thanks again, heres hoping Bob is his usual self again soon
xx

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by Blackrat1046

Thank you so much for all your replies, we are definately going to try the treats when he comes to us and treats when he lets us pet him. I didn't think about him being scared of us - how awful...

I play fight with him all the time, he mouths me but never bites, we have such fun when he lets me do that, I try and do it every few days, maybe I will start doing it every day, that way it builds up my confidence in handling him again, I don't like to think I am scared of my own dog.

When he refused to sit for breakfast I made sure that I put it back on the top after a couple of attempts, i then left it for 20 mins or so and then tried again, I hasten to say that he now sits every time (it was a bit like controlled crying when my daughter was a baby - first night was hell but then it got quicker and quicker)

Can I say also that when visitors come in the house he is all over them, so pleased to see them, and again I have no worries about him hurting anyone, he is so friendly towards them, even tries to jump on the sofa and sit with them, which again he doesnt do with my husband or I anymore which leads me to believe that maybe he is scared of us... Ok will work on the treats and handling and report back

Thanks again, heres hoping Bob is his usual self again soon
xx

You're very welcome!...Please keep me updated as to how things are going and feel free to ask if you have any further questions.

[lange]

wonderful advice given! Just don't forget dogs can also feed off of our own uneasiness and can mistrust us because of it. Good luck!

[Blackrat1046]

an update on Bob - he seems alot better already, we've been getting on the floor with him and waiting for him to approach us, he really does seem scared at first but after a good stroke and cuddle he is all over us, I would never have thought he was scared of us, we are going to work on this theory.. The growling is easing off a bit, maybe its because he is gaining trust in us.

Will keep you posted but thanks again