[melaniesue007]

My boyfriend and I adopted and 2 1/2 year old Min Pin, when we first got an apartment. The lady said he was returned 3 times and also said he can have a bit of an attitude at times, and i thought ok thats not probly to fix well we fostered him for a week and then adopted, the day we adopted him He bit my face my lip and messed it up BIG TIME. and thats cuz i was leaning over to him. then we were at a Drag race event and he was being so good an was kissing and being well my sister inlaw went to give him a kiss like she did all weekend and he did to her he got her nose and now she has a scar. after time he soon got my boyfriend on the lip too. and the dog, was the one who apporch him. then he has been great for some time he does his SNARLING and Growling and warning when ever you try to go onto the bed and he or i is on it. or when were on the couch. and when ever we hug or kiss eachother he freaks out. but this he has been soo good for a while now.. and then!! he sleeps with us in bed under the blanket he was laying agaisnt me and i went to move my foot and he clamped his jaw on my foot and would let go i was crying an screaming and he left me in gushing blood once again. and i know theres hope. He's been abused i guess in the past. but i get worried cuz i think is he getting worse? how should i fix this problem. do obidence, classes work. He really is a GREAT dog and alot of fun and so smart and a great dog but sometimes thid happens thank you

[Lara's mom]

Wow. That is a serious problem. I don't know what the laws are where you are but here, the owner has 100% liability if their dog bites. I would think a dog who is acting out that severely needs a professional trainer. Also, you should seriously consider muzzling this dog before he bites the "wrong" person and you end up in court or your little guy is seized by animal control.

This is one of the many times I miss Yogi. He was our resident expert on your breed and would no doubt been able to give you some very helpful advise. Sadly, he passed away a few months ago.

[CorkyMax]

Quote: This is one of the many times I miss Yogi. He was our resident expert on your breed and would no doubt been able to give you some very helpful advise. Sadly, he passed away a few months ago.

I was thinking the same think, Pam. I do know that Yogi often said this about Min Pins----They are not a lap dog--They were bred to catch rats (kill). And this breed decides when it wants to be petted.--In other words--you have to wait for it to decide to be 'friendly'--pretty independent breed!

Another thing he always said---And this is in general for all dogs---You should not reach directly in front of the dog's face to pet it.

I wish Yogi could answer this post as he would have a lot of good info for you and could word things better then I can.

[melaniesue007]

well. we do muszel him at night and when ever he snarls or growls.. and when we go out now but i have mins pins before growing up and my aunts and uncles had them too abd WE NEVER had this problem Never bit, snarled, or growled. My old min pin he was also the nicest dog had no signs of behavior problems at all i have never seen that dog with a bad attitude. but then again we raised him ourself and he waswith us since puppy. and i never just apporch dogs in a quickly fashion my pop-pop raised show dogs dobermans, min pins, and german shepards. so he never touched tails, no face to face and but this min pin isnt like any of the other min pins i no . i just hope classes will help cuz i dont want to see him be put down. i wish this yogi guy was still alive to help me . he is such a good dog and loveable. and he nuggles with you just like all the mins pins i no . and the min pins i had or know u can pet anytime and they were just like any other dog.. its just this dog is the min pin sterotype. and its sad cuz of being abused as a puppy made him this way today. and i thought maybe if we got another dog he will learn that biting is bad .

[Lunareclipse]

Getting another dog and adding it to the one that has a biting issue is never a good idea. You could have a bigger problem on your hands. Always make sure you have all of your problems worked out with your current dogs before adding another dog. You don't want to end up with a whole pack of dogs that have learned to bite.

[CorkyMax]

I have been (and still am!) going back over Yogi's past posts to see if I could find anything to help. I am only about 1/3 the way through his 20 pages of posts and I don't know if this link is helpful or not but here it is: unsocialized rescue dog. advice appreciated!!
Keep checking back in this post as I am now going to look for more from Yogi. Will let you know when I am through checking---Yogi had a lot more posts but think this forum cuts some out--think prob. 20 pages is the limit.

Another thread to check out. This is a long thread. Take note of post #6 by Yogi--esp. the bottom several sentences. You can see the post # to the top right of each post. Also note that there are 3 pages to this thread--A lot will not be helpful but you may be interested anyhow as a lot of detail about this breed's background, etc. and a few pics in 1 post too.---> Miniature Pinscher
Here is a post that Yogi did about Min Pins---Just giving you his reply-- Unfortunately, of all the breeds, Miniature Pinschers have proven over and over again that they are the one and only true Houdini of the canine world. They are quite capable of climbing a chain link fence. Most who own them have discovered this and go for wood privacy fence instead. A friend of mine who raises and shows both Toy and Standard Manchester Terriers is involved with the local Humane Society and a few other organizations. Any time they get an MT in, they contact her and she takes them. Unfortunately they generally do not know the difference between and MT and a MP. She agrees to take the MP's anyway but soon discovered that they were climbing her chain link fence which her MT's had never even attempted.
In the case of this dog, so long as it has daily time off leash and can run to expel the energy it possess' it should be fine and will acclimate in time.
It is a terrier therefore instinctively if true to the Zwergpinscher heritage, needs to have free run daily not just a couple walks. Daily walks will not suffice in this breed if it is true to the breed. In place of that, a large chainlink kennel with a cover might work. At least to allow the dog a place outdoors where it can stay for short periods of time. The cover will prevent the dog from climbing out. And here is a 2nd post he did in the same thread--- It would help to know his size to help determine the amount of food as I already have some idea as to the exercise he is getting. Miniature Pinschers are territorial when it comes to their food. This is obvious by the way you describe the situation. Understand that this breed was in fact a feral terrier not a house pet. Bred to ferret out rats, mice and rabbits which was their sole source of food. As often, many will not eat everything at the time of the catch but covet and guard it until the next time they want it. He is doing this with his food dish.---> Like many terriers and small breed dogs in general, people have a tendency to spoil them. With terriers, this is the worst thing you can do. This breed literally is a large breed in a small package. It needs to be addressed this way.<--- As for the time you have had him back, a month is not that long. I have had dogs I have taken in that have taken months to acclimate to a new routine. It is all in the patience and sticking to a routine. Good luck. --I was thinking that your dog needs to know you are the alpha (Note the comments by Yogi especially between the green arrows I inserted!)---He should definitely not have 'control' of your bed for one thing!! You are going to have to put him in his place. I am not sure how to tell you to do this--There are several dog trainers in this forum that can help you with that!

Here is a helpful thread----> Abused Dog

May want to check this thread out: Help...our dog has now bitten someone

Quote from Yogi:Miniature Pinschers are not toy dogs but in fact Terriers and as such were bred to be free thinking feral dogs, not house pets. They are one of the most difficult breeds to house train and those that are 80% house trained are considered house trained.

[CorkyMax]

And here is the final 'find'---
Quote:
Originally Posted by marliz84 View Post
i was just wondering on the temperment on a min pin, looking to adopt one, but is this the kind of dog that does not need a leash? my other dog, a chiuhuaha mix is so good and listens very well, does anyone know if i can expect this out of a min pin?
Sorry, no. This is one of the biggest problems I run into with people regularly as a Miniature Pinscher breeder. The assumption that because it is small it is like a Chihuahua. This could not be further from the truth. The Zwergpinscher is a "Terrier". If you have no experience with terriers than best to find another Chi. Terriers were created for only one reason, the hunt, ferret and kill vermin. The Miniature Pinscher was created solely for this purpose and rarely at best can it be off lead unless in a securely fenced yard. Once it goes on the hunt recall is extremely difficult and its focus is so intent that it will not yield for anything including streets, cars etc. This is NOT a Toy breed but only shown in the Toy breed category because of a few stupid people years ago. This breed in Europe competes with Miniature and Standard Schnauzers and German Pinschers, not with Toy group dogs. It is a working breed who's traits are stronger in them then any of the terrier family of dogs. Not to mention as with most terriers, not enough exercise and this dog can literally destroy furniture, walls and even hard wood floors. It is a high energy breed that daily walks simply will not suffice. They need a secure yard to run daily so that at night when they are in, they are less likely to damage things due to unspent energy. In addition, this breed lives in a state of terrible two's well into their senior years. They do not slow down like many breeds at 5 or 6 years. I have ones that are 11 and 12 that will still go on the hunt for rats and mice.
__________________
No I am not a Miniature Doberman, I was around 200 years before Karl Frederich Louis Doberman created the Dobie, and as for my friends the Manx cats, yes they are better at playing fetch than I am, I am a Miniature Pinscher. Black Hawk Kennels - Black Hawk Kennels home of Pins, Paps and Rescues

I purposely left the bottom signature that Yogi put in all his posts so if you are interested/curious about Yogi and his dogs--You can click on the blue link and see his many dogs and some info on Yogi.

[melaniesue007]

thank you so much it is helpful to read his post and learning something i didnt know before. Im now going to take a look at the sites you sent me too. thank you so much for helping me. it means alot.

[piratekitty]

Yes find a good trainning program for your min pin and put him into trainning. I can only tell you about my experience with my 3yr old min pin, Hunter who 20 months ago was a out of control pin. I got him at 12 wks, so cute, carried him around in my arms all the time, ( mistake) He started being shy towards people, then barking, then barking all the time and lunging to warn stay away. I let this go on for a year( to long). It got to where I couldnt take him anywhere because of his bad behavior. He was acting out because he was confused and fearful. I looked into a trainning program. For 20 months I took him to trainning sometimes 4 times a week. We took this trainning at many different parks and all outdoor areas, year round. We train with all different breeds and size of dogs. Dogs with many different behaviors. Hunter is trained to come, sit, place, down, come and sit half way, return to his place, heal, heal off leash, lots of tricks. Good behavior when meeting other dogs. We now go to trainning 2 times a week year round and will for his life. I will tell you he is a total different dog. Happy, not confused on how he should act, and what is good behavior. Hes not perfect, he is still a dog, but he is so much more well balanced now. And I now have the knowledge and continued help, to help him maintain good behavior.
I would also suggest to show your dog you are alpha. Somethings would be dont let them sleep with you, make it your idea not his to let him on your lap or couch. Make him sit, wait, then invite them up. and only stay there with good behavior. Make him sit wait till you walk thur the door first. Sit and wait to be fed. Anything that your dog needs to look to you as pack leader. Dont put your pin in situations that makes him snap or bite, be able to no and read these actions before they happen. Reward, and lots of praise for good behavior. Make trainning fun for your dog. It will take time and patients , but its is so worth your time and money you spend to have a happy , balanced dog.

[melaniesue007]

Well he doesnt sleep on the bed.. sleeps in his bed and in the middle of the night he'll try to come up and sometimes we dont notice.. but at night i keep the muszel on him just in case he does get into our bed but i been catching it everytime.. and when he does just sleep on his own on the floor. i wil take the muszel off at night. And i will start doing the couch thing thats a good idea. And we make him sit before taking him out and before treats. but thank you for ur advice

[Manna.Banana]

Hey, we adopted a Basset hound on October 10th and he does the same thing. He's good for a couple days then he growls, snarls, and has bit 4 people so far. He definitely has personal space/possession Issues... If your too close in our bassets face, he'll snarl, and sometimes not even warn and just bite. In the 3 weeks we have had him, it has taken a lot of patience, a lot of cookies, but he is definitely coming around. He sleeps in our bed also, right between me and my fiance, and if we roll too close he started to growl in the beginning, Now he just takes it and sleeps like a log. A member on this board told me to "redirect" their possession (So if you want the blanket they are laying on, send a toy they love flying, or redirect their attention them with a cookie). Another thing I've learned is to never Discipline him (By way of the kennel, or a swat on the bum) because they will see you as the bad person who is now abusing them.
See if there are any behavioral specialists in your area, some vets even do it. Obedience class won't help much because the dog needs to TRUST you, and if he's snapping and snarling there's not much trust there, and he doesn't see you as the leader.
It does get frustrating at times, but remember to keep your cool, I've found dogs with a history of abuse seem to have tweaked their senses to pick up the slightest bit of frustration, or anger because it would warn them to an incoming abuse situation.
Also, from the description of his bite, you said he bit and wouldn't let go? did he release the pressure even slightly? My basset took a chunk out of my shoulder a couple weeks ago, made 3 bites, but I believe they were warning bites because if he intended to do any damage, he could have thrashed his head around, but didn't.
Bottom line is I know exactly what your going through, and patience will take you a long way (And cookies for being good of course!).
Good Luck!

[melaniesue007]

well he usallay always slept inbetween us since the first day we got hime and all a sudden without any waring he bit me. and the only reason he let go was because my boyfriend got him and he released. But i dont understand if he is bad and snarls growls and bites.not giving him at spank on the butt then do what? cuz Saying No!! he isnt knowing he didnt something really bad. But i do understand that the spank doesnt work either.. He just a little ago tryed to bite me again i just came home and my boyfriend was already home and i came in and he started grawling at me and i tryed to pin him down as domenice like i was told to and i pin the wrong part and he snatched at me and just tipping the skin of my hand. I dont think its a trust thing. i more less think that he always thinks someone is going to do something bad either me to him or me to my boyfriend or via versa. when im home with him and then my b.f comes home he will do the same to hime to pertect me. I just know this dog is a hard dog and i will have to do alot of work with him , it just stinks cuz you see all this families kissing there dogs and hugging them like its nothing.. and you cant do that to my dog at all.. no one can ever go near his face to kiss him unless he is kissing you and even then i still wont.

[Manna.Banana]

Wow! Somebody really hurt this baby. I wonder if he's actually possessing the person? Cause if your home, he protects you when the boyfriend comes home, but when the roll is reverse when the scenerio is reversed. I've heard of the pinning in dominance thing, to hold them down till they calm down. I only had to do that once to my husky-collie cross. But since i have two other dogs, he knows i'm the leader, but he's gonna be the leader of the four legged variety.
When Boomer (my Basset) is in one of his grouchy moods, and he's snarling and just being ugly, we take out a treat and get him to do something good, like go outside, simple things like sit, paw, etc. He's starting to associate that the cookie comes with being good and doing good things, however we still havent encountered a scenerio where he does something bad to have to do something good to get a treat... *knock on wood*
You said you got him from a rescue agency and that he had been to 10 homes? Maybe he's afraid to bond to somebody for fear he'll be taken away again? Theres a lot of scenerios that could have happened, but sounds like he's got some socialization issues, at least with humans... Have you tried him around your friends and families dogs? Is he just as aggressive or is he more relaxed and playful? Although anything is possible, ive seen socialization issues come from (just off the top of my head) abandonment, seclusion (like Boomer), neglect of basic necessities, puppy mills, bad breeding, premature detachment from mother, etc.
Obviously a behavioural Analyist (credentials are awesome, dont want no "dog whisperer" wanna-bes) would be able evaluate and see what kind of issues are going to be easily targeted, and which ones are going to take time, possibly even years (that biting one should be top priority tho, especially if there are children, or guests getting bitten). Its not going to happen overnight, but with the right methods applied, you can one day have that kissy fur-face you want <3.