[stacey.morrill]

A few days ago we got a puppy who is the only survivor out of her whole doggy family. She is a newfie/harlequin great dane mix. She was left to fend for herself. She is the sweetest little(big) thing. I have dealt with abused dogs before, but they were dogs, not puppies. She has a piddle problem, i never get mad at her for it. We just got about whatever we were doing and clean it up. So, I guess what Im gettin at is, does anyone have any tips on how to get her out of her shell and what not? Im in no way expecting something to happen over night. She is definitely loved. When we got her all the family had to come meet her. She was happy about it too, she was wagging her tail and licking. She even started chasing my daughter a little bit. So if anyone has any tips to help I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[threenorns]

there is nothing special you need to do: all you need to do is learn the proper way to train her and she'll be fine.


humans like to dwell on the past - that's not a dog thing. when a dog reacts "out of fear" because "she was abused", it's bosh - the dog is reacting out of fear because of teh human's expectation that it would do so. in short, the human trained the dog to be afraid.

i had a hybrid (i mean *hybrid* - the real thing - not "designer mutt") who'd been trained to run down and eat cats - i mean that literally. it took me a couple of months but he did get to the point i could dump kittens all over him and he'd just sit there and look at me woefully until he stood up, shook them off, and went to his bed to sulk.

it's not the dog's past that determines its future - it's the present. if you want a stable, happy member of the family, that's what you'll get. if you want an emotionally unstable, cringeing dog (hey, some ppl do - this way they can show the world what heros they are for saving this poor beast), then that's what you'll get.

[Deafdogsrule]

I have 2 dogs who're fearful, and have worked with several fearful or feral rescue dogs, over the years. Zoe is by FAR the worst shut-down/fearful dog I've ever seen. She took YEARS to become sort-of normal. Oliver uses aggression to get rid of what's scaring him.

The best thing you can do for a fearful pup is DONT FORCE IT! EVER! I shout this because most people will use some force in some way shape or form, from pulling a dog on a leash, or through a scary doorway, to allowing people the dog is scared of to pet it.

I agree that dogs dont live in the past, but bad experiences do shape what the dog feels in a specific moment. Oliver was afraid of flapping laundry... I have no idea why (he was a street dog before I got him), but he is, so I let him run and hide, I didn't make him sit by me while I folded clothes, but he's ok with me folding clothes now, cuz he could get away from it, and investigate at his own pace.

Zoe was afraid of life. Everything that moved or made noise (except other animals) scared the life out of her. She'd have panic attacks, or would shut down completely. A dog cannot learn when past threshold, so flooding or forcing a dog doesn't help anything. Allowing a dog to investigate at it's own pace will allow the dog to learn.

I clicker train. And that has been my absolute BEST tool for helping a dog overcome a fear of a specific object. There is no force involved, and there is plenty of rewards for going near/touching/walking on a fear-inducing object. Zoe wouldn't walk on/over anything that was new, (rug, dog bed, extension cord etc.) But with a few (or more) clicks, she'd get close enough to sniff, and eventually would walk over it.

Keep it positive, be careful not to cause any fear, and never force a fearful dog.

[threenorns]

again, it depends on the dog. i use flooding myself with great success (considering it's the number-one therapy to treat human phobia). one night we had a thunderstorm and, out of the blue, my dog hid behind teh couch and started this continuous, drawn-out keening. i thought "oh, bloody hell - we are NOT starting this!" and grabbed the leash.

he didn't want to come out from behind teh couch - i kept a gentle but firm steady tension on the leash (NOT tugging, yanking, or forcing, just telling him he needs to come this way) and after thinking about it, he came out.

we got to the door but as soon as i opened it, he balked again. again, i made with the gentle steady tension. i didn't speak or otherwise add anything, just let him sit there and think about it and again, he got up and came through the door but stuck extremely close to my leg.

every time he balked, i did the same thing and we walked in the thunderstorm. after about 20min, he unstuck himself from my side and started looking around. it took about an hour altogether but as soon as he was back to walking like he normally does we went back home and there's been no problem ever since: we've had some really cracking storms since and the most he does is flick an ear (he has startled at a boom or a particularly loud crack but i don't count those since i was peeling myself off the ceiling at the time).

that was the fastest, most effective, most humane way (imo) to fix that problem: take him for a walk and show him that there is nothing to be frightened of and that i'm there for him.

so far, it has worked on thunderstorms, firecrackers, and gunshots during hunting season.

BUT that is *my* dog - i do what works for him. just because something doesn't work for him (click training) doesn't mean i'm going to say it's crap.

[Deafdogsrule]

The problem with flooding is it can make things exponentially worse. Yes, it sometimes works, but you take great risk at making it worse. IF flooding hadn't worked for your dog, he could have ended up way worse, and not trusting you during a thunderstorm, cuz you dragged him out last time.

I got my dog, Oliver past his fear of thunder as well (he hid in his crate, drooling and shaking during storms). I put him in an anxiety wrap (later a Thundershirt) and worked on his favorite tricks... you cant be scared when you're having fun, can you? It only took 2 sessions/storms with Oliver. He would have turned into a quivering mess, had I dragged him outside. It helps, though, that I LOVE storms, he get's no feelings of anxiety from me

[threenorns]

see, that's the thing: i didn't "drag" him - that's where it goes wrong.

all i did was keep a steady tension on the leash - "we're going for a walk". i didn't talk to him, touch him, look at him - just kept the steady tension at a level that was perfectly in balance with his resistance. if he pulled back harder, i increase it so he stayed in exactly the same place. if he eased off, i eased off and when he decided to get up, i reacted in no other way - no praise, no approval, etc (that's just rewarding him for being stressed out).

when we got to the door and he balked again, same thing: i didn't "drag" him through the door. i stayed perfectly still with the door open and waited for him to make up his mind.

it took a LONG time to actually get out the door - i think it was only about 15min or so but it felt like half the night.

[Lunareclipse]

Get him a Thundershirt. Thundershirt | The Best Dog Anxiety Treatment This really does work.

[stacey.morrill]

Ive thought about getting that Thundershirt. Funny thing, she isn't fearful of loud noises. If there is a bang or something like that, all she does is lift her head, sniff and look around for a minute. She has actually come around really well since we got her. The first day all she wanted to do was hide in a corner, refused to do anything. So in order to get her to go outside I would have to sit on the floor, coax her to me then pick her up and carry her. Thing is is she is going to be a BIG dog. Haha. I cant keep carrying her. So we got her out of the corner, now she has deicded that she is a couch potato. Again, we are back to having difficulties getting her off the couch. We have to coax her and coax her. Sometimes she will pee, sometimes she will get off the couch, and other times she wont budge. She doesnt like the leash, but when outside she stays right next to me or my kids. She does not run off. Which surprises me, given the fact that she is a 12 week old puppy that was totally neglected and pretty much left to starve to death in an abandoned car.

So, we have made great strides in certain areas, and have gotten nowhere in others. Im being patient, and trying to not force anything. The only thing I force is go outside and go potty time. I guess I'll just have to continue on my path and see where things go. Another funny thing, she doesnt seem to like doggy treats. I had to give away a few different kinds because she just wont eat them, but a plus side. She doesnt like human food either. She is curious, but she wont eat it.

[Lunareclipse]

It isn't just for loud noises. It can be used in any stressful situation. Some vets use them after surgery to keep a dog calm and secure feeling so they don't reinjure themselves.

[stacey.morrill]

I wasnt thinkin to get one just for loud noises. I was thinking more on the lines of comfort all the time. So I'll have to look into them

[Deafdogsrule]

I use a Thundershirt with Oliver. It does help to calm his anxiety. I use it in situations he may find stressful.

Is she afraid to take food from you? What kind of treats are you using? I had a dog that refused to take food from me for a year... she was too terrified to take any food from me, but if I left it and left the room, she'd go get it.

[stacey.morrill]

She's not at all afraid of taking food from me. She'll eat right out my hand. I tried the treats that are recommended with clicker training. She went touch them. So then I got the lil steak lookin ones, just licked it. The newest ones I bought are the round ones that are supposed to be 2 flavors. I'm going with begin strips or something like that next.

[Deafdogsrule]

Originally Posted by stacey.morrill

She's not at all afraid of taking food from me. She'll eat right out my hand. I tried the treats that are recommended with clicker training. She went touch them. So then I got the lil steak lookin ones, just licked it. The newest ones I bought are the round ones that are supposed to be 2 flavors. I'm going with begin strips or something like that next.

Try freeze dried liver, fish or chicken, Hot Dogs cut up tiny or Cheese either cut up tiny, or out of a squeeze tube. Beggin Strips are full of sugar and very bad preservatives.

[Lunareclipse]

Originally Posted by Deafdogsrule

Try freeze dried liver, fish or chicken, Hot Dogs cut up tiny or Cheese either cut up tiny, or out of a squeeze tube. Beggin Strips are full of sugar and very bad preservatives.

I agree. Beggin strips are horrible and none of my dogs will eat them. I get chopped ham and use tiny pieces of that as a training tool.

[stacey.morrill]

Ok, so I didn't get the beggin strips. Instead I bought hot dogs, and she wouldn't touch it. Haha. The other dogs were all over the hot dogs. But the other dogs also like green beans, so I tried that. She loved them! I would like to try other things, so I guys ok going to have to go with the liver (ick) Haha

[CorkyMax]

Speaking of green beans ---Try raw asparagus spears--cut up if for training purpose I suppose. My dog loved asparagus, as well as green beans--raw (I have a garden) and even snow peas. A lot of dogs love asparagus and is good for them. I think mine would eat the asparagus 1st if given a choice between it and meat! He also loved cooked shrimp pieces---Take the tail hard pieces off first! He didn't get shrimp very often--too expensive but for training---lot of small pieces can be had just from one shrimp.

[threenorns]

hot dogs - i call them "doggie crack". if i gave him hot dogs, i could probably get dandy doing the moonwalk from "billy jean".

[Deafdogsrule]

Originally Posted by threenorns

hot dogs - i call them "doggie crack". if i gave him hot dogs, i could probably get dandy doing the moonwalk from "billy jean".

ROTFL Mine too! :mrgreen:

[stacey.morrill]

Haha. My mom's dogs LOVE asparagus! We bake it. I have never known a dog to dislike hot dogs, until mine. She is so strange! I went from this shy, scared puppy, to this little terror. Haha. She likes shrimp and greens beans. Anything else, besides her puppy food and water she will not touch. She's even barking and yelping now. I think she's coming out of her shell?!

[DobermanGuy]

Originally Posted by Lunareclipse

I agree. Beggin strips are horrible and none of my dogs will eat them. I get chopped ham and use tiny pieces of that as a training tool.

My dogs LOVE those things AND they can't read so they have no idea what is in them...