Originally Posted by Zyara25

By the way, I have never claimed to be a breeder. I wanted to breed my dog once to try it out and experience breeding, so that in the future if I really wanted to become a breeder, I would know what I'm getting myself into. I personally just wanted some advice from an experienced breeder, otherwise I would have not picked "dog breeder chat" to ask my question. This was a surprise to me (if she really is pregnant), I did not want her to have pups in winter, when it is too cold to have the puppies outside for periods of time. I would have choose to have her concieve on her next cycle.

If you didn't want her to have puppies now, you should have kept an eye on when her heat cycles are (by now you should know when they are since this isn't her first heat) and kept her and the male seperated at this time. It's not like they will choose not to breed just because you don't want them to, they will no matter what when she's in heat.

Originally Posted by reeskujo

You wanted to try it out?....Breeding is not something you just try out like a piece of electronic equipment!....You either do it the right and responsible way or you don't do it at all...If you didn't know what you were getting into before hand that simply means you don't know about responsible breeding and therefore shouldn't be doing it!...Wanted to try it!...I can't believe I just read that!!!

I'm really sorry I didn't word that right. I do not treat my dogs "like a piece of electronic equipment". As I have said, I am not a full time breeder, I have not bred my dogs or my other previously owned dogs. Which I know you are now going to turn around on me and say that they were like a "previously owned" movie, that I can turn around and sell. The way you people analyze everyone's wording to the exact quotation is rediculous. What are you? Therapsists?" Are you now going to diagnose me? By the way, I'd like to hear this...I can continue to argue with you as long as you want to keep this up. Obviously, everyone who has continuously wrote me really doesn't have a life and can sit on the computer to try and solve everyone else's problem. Where are you right now...why aren't you keeping an eye on your dogs 24/7 like you want me to do. My dogs are together all the time. I have a huge kennel in the house in which they both stay when they want to. I thought I had done a good job of keeping them apart at the time when she was in heat. Accidents do happen. But obviously I am only speaking with professionals who have never made a mistake.

I am glad that I have recieved your comments...in a way anyways. It really does show me the responsibility that I need and the commitment I need to have to be able to one day be a breeder. That is a big maybe. But I can honestly say, I am glad to have choose for my dogs to have 1 litter of pups. I plan on keeping atleast one and spaying my female when it is all done and over with. If I ever do decide to become a breeder one day, I will go about it correctly and go out of my way to find the best possible dogs, registered, certified, and everything else. And yes I know there is alot more to it than that, as I'm sure I will recieve another post from one of you to ridicule the way I worded that.

[reeskujo]

I find it truly amazing how people with no breeding experience get so upset when those of us who do have experience lay the facts out for them and tell them how they have no business breeding if they don't know what their doing.....I'm not saying you are one so please don't think that but this is exactly how puppy mills and back yard breeders get started....No I have never had an accidental pregnancy with my dogs because if they weren't spayed or neutered my males and females were kept apart at all times during my females cycle...It's called being responsible....Many puppies are born and turned into shelters for this exact reason...Accidents!....I'm sorry if your offended or don't like what your hearing but the truth hurts sometimes......FYI...This has nothing to do with being a therapist as you put it this has to do with trying to stop people who know nothing about breeding from doing it and adding to the already over populated dog shelters and pounds!

I understand totally with what you are saying, and do agree with you that the pounds and shelters are way to overpopulated already without adding to them. So quoting you...

"I find it truly amazing how people with no breeding experience get so upset when those of us who do have experience lay the facts out for them and tell them how they have no business breeding if they don't know what their doing.....I'm not saying you are one so please don't think that but this is exactly how puppy mills and back yard breeders get started."

I do take offense to this and was treated like this, even though you have stated now that I am not one of these people. It has taken me 3 pages to explain this. If I would have left it after the first response, I would have been portrayed this way. I do feel I have a resonable amount of knowledge when it comes to dogs, and would like to be able to give advice to a new owner with not much experience. This is my reasoning for keeping this conversation going.

Originally Posted by Zyara25

I understand totally with what you are saying, and do agree with you that the pounds and shelters are way to overpopulated already without adding to them. So quoting you...

"I find it truly amazing how people with no breeding experience get so upset when those of us who do have experience lay the facts out for them and tell them how they have no business breeding if they don't know what their doing.....I'm not saying you are one so please don't think that but this is exactly how puppy mills and back yard breeders get started."

I do take offense to this and was treated like this, even though you have stated now that I am not one of these people. It has taken me 3 pages to explain this. If I would have left it after the first response, I would have been portrayed this way. I do feel I have a resonable amount of knowledge when it comes to dogs, and would like to be able to give advice to a new owner with not much experience. This is my reasoning for keeping this conversation going.

I have to thank you for staying as patient as possible through this whole topic. I know it's tough to do, trust me I've been on the other end of the battering ram on dog forums before for simple uneducated mistakes

I think it proves a lot that you're willing to learn from this experience, and put it to use for not only yourself but for others as well. You have to understand though, from the other end of the spectrum it's really hard sometimes to keep cool and not fly off the handle when one hears about ANOTHER litter of puppies being brought into the world. I wish there were some way to stop unwanted litters, I wish there was some way to stop even responsible breeders from breeding just for a short while, especially for the popular breeds. I have never bought from a breeder, all my dogs have been rescues because I think there's just too many of them sitting in shelters or tied up in backyards without any love, or wandering the streets looking for scraps to go out and buy a puppy. I think the only way I would ever buy is if I planned on showing the dog.

I have two neutered males and even THEY aren't together 24/7 though, that was my point about supervision and keeping them apart during cycles. I don't want my dogs to be completely codependant on eachother so I make sure they aren't. If I had a female and male, both unaltered, I'd be EXTREMELY adament about keeping them apart for the female's whole cycle, and there are pleanty of ways to do this properlly.

[reeskujo]

A lot of people have a reasonable amount of knowledge when it comes to dogs that does not however make them qualified to breed them...Before anyone starts a breeding program they should learn everything there is to learn about breeding...They should also have a mentor to help them with the things you can only learn with hands on experience...Breeding is not something you can do and figure it out as you go along...At least not if you want to be a responsible breeder....That fact that your female got pregnant by accident is a clear indication that you do not yet have the knowledge you need....Before even trying to mate them there should be extensive health and genetic testing on both parents to try and assure that nothing bad health wise is passed on to the pups....As was said before just because a dog is registered with the AKC does not mean it's fit for breeding...The breeding pair should also have titles and conformations....I hope that if your dog is not pregnant you will consider getting her spayed or at the very least make sure when she comes into heat again her and your male are kept apart until you've gotten the knowledge you need before undertaking such a big responsibility!

Stinkeymoles...I agree with what you said about the pet over population...It is the reason I stopped breeding and do rescue work now...My first rescue was the Akita I have now and a while back we added a female Husky to the mix.

FYI...Everyone... My dog has had a false pregnancy. She had all of the symptoms of being pregnant, enlarged teats, morning sickness, change in behavior, increased appetite, gained weight, and so on. But she was infact not pregnant. My photos have still not been approved, but once they are you will be able to see why I was so confused and seeked help here for someone else's opinion. I really was looking forward to having puppies and had everything ready for her, but she infact was not pregnant Thanks for all your information and advice, positive and negative.

[reeskujo]

Your welcome and I'm not only happy to hear she's not pregnant but hope you will reconsider breeding her....IMO your not ready because you need to have more knowledge!

geez guys how do you expect someone to learn if you all are going to jump down their throat? Yes, maybe she made some mistakes, but what new breeder hasn't?
She at least had the proper health screening done on both dam and sire. That alone puts her way ahead of the BYB and Puppymills.

Just curious as to why the dogs are not registered? If there is a way to get there registration taken care of, and then show them before attempting breeding again would be in the best interest of the breed.

[reeskujo]

Just out of curiosity have you ever bred?...The health checks she's done are not enough for responsible breeding...I also don't hand out my knowledge to people who don't know enough to breed yet!....That is why your supposed to hook up with a mentor who's a professional in breeding and learn from them first!....I will not encourage breeding with people who are not willing to do that and learn the correct and responsible way to breed!

Originally Posted by reeskujo

Just out of curiosity have you ever bred?...The health checks she's done are not enough for responsible breeding...I also don't hand out my knowledge to people who don't know enough to breed yet!....That is why your supposed to hook up with a mentor who's a professional in breeding and learn from them first!....I will not encourage breeding with people who are not willing to do that and learn the correct and responsible way to breed!

That line you mentined is unreal, If this statement is true WHY bother waisting your time typing this these lines out reeskujo, my god she came for advice and you treated her as if she was out to damned the world would you rather people not get advice and do something wrong! Maybe her coming here to ask for advice was wrong!!!!

For what it's worth, I decided to comment on this forum because I am someone that has been directly affected by an irresponsible breeder. Anyone that breeds dogs is taking on an ENORMOUS responsibility not only to the breed itself, but to the people and families that take these dogs into their homes. It takes a very special person to breed dogs properly. It is not an easy thing to do, and should be taken very seriously by someone that is educated and knows exactly what they are doing. Someone that will accept any expenditures in order to make sure that the dogs they produce are as healthy as possible.

A year ago on Feb 5th, my precious baby girl died right beside me in her sleep. She was a mini schnauzer...only a year and a half old. My five year old little boy witnessed my devestaion when I realized that she was dead. Even worse our other schnauzer, who was just 2 years old, also witnessed her death. It was devestating to my entire family. Soon after, I discovered that our schnauzer (that was still alive) was sick. Her condition IS genetic and will have a great effect on her life expectancy.

It has been a year since this happened, and I will tell you that I still think about my little girl EVERY DAY. Not a day goes by that I don't miss her and wish that she was still here. I live with the guilt that I couldn't protect her or save her. My dogs are not just dogs to me, they are a part of my family, they are my children. Losing her has not only had an effect on me, but on my little boy as well. He loved her so much, and to this day I still see how sad it makes him when we look at a picture of her or see a dog that looks just like her.

We still have our other schnauzer, but it's been a rough road. She has many health ailments and problems that have all been confirmed genetic and congenital by my veterinarian. My husband and I have spent a huge amount of money (that we do not have) to keep her as healthy as possible through medication, diagnostic testing, special diet, and repeated visits to the vet. She is a member of our family and we will do whatever we can for her...anything less in my eyes is unacceptable.

The point that I am trying to make is that for anyone that is even contemplating on breeding...for whatever reason, know that you are not just creating puppies. You are creating a life that will end up becoming a part of someone's heart. If you ask me, that's a pretty big responsibility to live up to. Genetic diseases and defects are a huge problem that most people who buy a dog know nothing about.

The breeder of my dogs betrayed our trust, and was horrible to us. I ended up having to take her to court because I was able to provide evidence that there was a strong history of genetic problems within the bloodlines of her dogs. She claims that she did not know, but I have very good reason to believe that is untrue. The breeder did not do any genetic testing on the dogs, except eye testing. I later discovered that she was over-breeding as well. Her inadequate breeding practices produced several unhealthy dogs....

Two of those dogs became a part of our family. Her bad breeding practices have effected my family in a way that we will never forget. We are so very heartbroken.

I don't want to preach to anyone, but if you are going to breed, consider the consequences when IT IS NOT DONE RIGHT and ask yourself if you can sleep at night knowing that your mistakes cost someone their heart.

Originally Posted by schnauzermum

For what it's worth, I decided to comment on this forum because I am someone that has been directly affected by an irresponsible breeder. Anyone that breeds dogs is taking on an ENORMOUS responsibility not only to the breed itself, but to the people and families that take these dogs into their homes. It takes a very special person to breed dogs properly. It is not an easy thing to do, and should be taken very seriously by someone that is educated and knows exactly what they are doing. Someone that will accept any expenditures in order to make sure that the dogs they produce are as healthy as possible.

A year ago on Feb 5th, my precious baby girl died right beside me in her sleep. She was a mini schnauzer...only a year and a half old. My five year old little boy witnessed my devestaion when I realized that she was dead. Even worse our other schnauzer, who was just 2 years old, also witnessed her death. It was devestating to my entire family. Soon after, I discovered that our schnauzer (that was still alive) was sick. Her condition IS genetic and will have a great effect on her life expectancy.

It has been a year since this happened, and I will tell you that I still think about my little girl EVERY DAY. Not a day goes by that I don't miss her and wish that she was still here. I live with the guilt that I couldn't protect her or save her. My dogs are not just dogs to me, they are a part of my family, they are my children. Losing her has not only had an effect on me, but on my little boy as well. He loved her so much, and to this day I still see how sad it makes him when we look at a picture of her or see a dog that looks just like her.

We still have our other schnauzer, but it's been a rough road. She has many health ailments and problems that have all been confirmed genetic and congenital by my veterinarian. My husband and I have spent a huge amount of money (that we do not have) to keep her as healthy as possible through medication, diagnostic testing, special diet, and repeated visits to the vet. She is a member of our family and we will do whatever we can for her...anything less in my eyes is unacceptable.

The point that I am trying to make is that for anyone that is even contemplating on breeding...for whatever reason, know that you are not just creating puppies. You are creating a life that will end up becoming a part of someone's heart. If you ask me, that's a pretty big responsibility to live up to. Genetic diseases and defects are a huge problem that most people who buy a dog know nothing about.

The breeder of my dogs betrayed our trust, and was horrible to us. I ended up having to take her to court because I was able to provide evidence that there was a strong history of genetic problems within the bloodlines of her dogs. She claims that she did not know, but I have very good reason to believe that is untrue. The breeder did not do any genetic testing on the dogs, except eye testing. I later discovered that she was over-breeding as well. Her inadequate breeding practices produced several unhealthy dogs....

Two of those dogs became a part of our family. Her bad breeding practices have effected my family in a way that we will never forget. We are so very heartbroken.

I don't want to preach to anyone, but if you are going to breed, consider the consequences when IT IS NOT DONE RIGHT and ask yourself if you can sleep at night knowing that your mistakes cost someone their heart.

*applauses*

Great post schnauzermumm, thanks for including a perspective that is often missed if you have not experienced it yourself. It certainly is a really important aspect that should be considered by any breeder.

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by Goldenlover

That line you mentined is unreal, If this statement is true WHY bother waisting your time typing this these lines out reeskujo, my god she came for advice and you treated her as if she was out to damned the world would you rather people not get advice and do something wrong! Maybe her coming here to ask for advice was wrong!!!!

I am not going to encourage breeding by giving my knowledge if I'm not the one doing the mentoring...People who want to breed need to work with those that are experienced so they can learn hands on....Simply getting advice on the internet is not enough to qualify you for breeding...learning real world experience with a professional breeder is how you learn..BTW,are you a professional breeder?

Yes I am, Goldens.
If you think she was to be mentored, then you should have stated that!
What is this site for? Is it to bash people? Is it to piss other poeple off?
Or is it to maybe advise people to take the correct steps and/or advise poeple on what and how much work is involved in breeding. No i do not think unexperienced people should breed, but if someone is in the situtation, asking questions is the right start. Bashing someone will only shy people away from asking questions NO QUESTION IS A DUMB QUESTION!
I just think you should be a little bit more nice to those who ask for help, or just plainly dont respond if you don't want to give your KNOWLEDGE!

[reeskujo]

Did you offer her advice?...How long have you been breeding?...Do you do all the health checks needed?...Home studies?...Follow ups?...Spay/neuter contracts...Microchipping?...Limited registration?...Did you share your knowledge?Our goal is to discourage BYB's...Do your breed for profit or betterment for the breed.....Are your breeders titled and do they have conformations?

I own two golden retrievers, and came online to learn more about them and to network with other owners. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the comments here. I registered just to let you know that instead of helping anyone, your rudeness will just drive them away. What does that accomplish? I have rescued dogs, volunteered at the humane society, been a responsible pet owner all my life, but we all always have much still to learn. What you still need to learn is that you can't enlighten anyone when you are clubbing them over the head. You should show humans at least a small fraction of the compassion you profess to show for dogs. it's the people who don't even care to try to learn anything that are thwarting your cause. You've just beat up on a caring pet owner for several pages. What did that accomplish but to discourage her and people like me from seeking to improve themselves? You may be a dog lover, but you are a people hater.

Originally Posted by Zyara25

FYI...Everyone... My dog has had a false pregnancy. She had all of the symptoms of being pregnant, enlarged teats, morning sickness, change in behavior, increased appetite, gained weight, and so on. But she was infact not pregnant. My photos have still not been approved, but once they are you will be able to see why I was so confused and seeked help here for someone else's opinion. I really was looking forward to having puppies and had everything ready for her, but she infact was not pregnant Thanks for all your information and advice, positive and negative.

Thank Goodness! If you are still here and can read this, I hope you don't breed these two dogs unless you get all genetic tests done and have done your research.

From what I read from you, I wouldn't buy a dog from you. No way. You didn't even know when your dog got pregnant and had to come on a dogbreed website and ask if your own dog is pregnant instead of taking her to the vet.

So according to the CKC, I cannot register my dogs if the parents were not registered. I did not know alot about this before I bought my female over two years ago. But I would never give up my dog just to find a purebred registered dog.

If they are not and cannot be registered, the lineage can't be traced, and you shouldn't be breeding these dogs. You don't even know that they came for the parent dogs the breeder told you they came from-unless you were there for the birth.

It's not that important to me. It is very hard to find purebred dogs where I am from and this is one of the reasons why I wanted to breed my dog.

That's not a responsible reason to breed, so don't breed them. As stated in my previous post, you haven't had them tested for all diseases, you could be passing a terrible load to the people that you're selling these puppies too. You're doing this to make a fast buck, aren't you?

I hope fate has intervened by now and made both your bitch and stud infertile so you can't breed these two unregistered dogs. You are a backyard breeder.

[lulusmom]

Originally Posted by wouldbedogowner

Thank Goodness! If you are still here and can read this, I hope you don't breed these two dogs unless you get all genetic tests done and have done your research.

From what I read from you, I wouldn't buy a dog from you. No way. You didn't even know when your dog got pregnant and had to come on a dogbreed website and ask if your own dog is pregnant instead of taking her to the vet.

This is really rich coming from someone like you. I'm usually appalled by your posts but this time you actually made me laugh. I think it's hysterically funny that someone as ignorant of canines as you is berating anybody on the subject of proper breeding. To use your phrase...."From what I've read from you, I wouldn't sell a dog to you or let you adopt one of my purebreed or mixed breed rescues. No way." Good grief, you actually admitted that you wanted a purebreed because that way you wouldn't have to get rid of it if it didn't fit comfortably into your life. How about them apples all you breeders and rescuers? Great prospective parent huh?