hi

I have a 2 year old white German shepherd called Eva, me and my partner rescued her when she was 5 months old from a terrible home where she was beaten and not fed. when we got her we took her straight to the vets who confirmed she was malnutritioned and dehydrated. we have slowly fed her up as the vet advised and she is now in perfect health. she was booked in for spading june 6th 2008 as we have never had any intention of breeding her. however, we moved house in May 08 and our new garden is not as secure as our last one and a male german shepherd managed to get to her on May 26th 08. we came home to find them 'stuck' together in the garden. we talked to the vet who told us to cancel the spading until we were sure of whether she had been caught or not......it is now 63 days since the 'mating' and these are her signs: enlarged nipples (not massive though only slightly bigger), she had morning sickness for 1 week approx w/c 9/07. her rib cage is enlarged but her belly is only slightly bigger (however we have increased her food intake so this could be the reason.) she is tired very easily which is unusual.
i am no dog breeding expert by any means and infact can not afford to get her an ultrasound/sonagram.....she has also not been hip scored/eye tested etc.....
please do not think that this means i am an irresponsible dog owner - we saved this dog from a terrible life and she could not ask for more - we do have her insured and i have checked this covers any illness she may suffer from this 'pregnancy' we never had any intention of breeding her and this is why her spading was booked in.
before you advise that i should have put her in for an abortion - i do not agree with abortion of any living thing and this is purely the reason this has not been done.
all i would like advise on is whether or not you think she could be pregnant? my vet has been very un-helpful (to the point of us changing vet) my vet said he wouldnt be able to tell as she may be carrying high up (in her rib cage) is this normal? i have searched the internet and find very contra-dicting answers regarding all my questions!
please help???!!

Hi and welcome! I wish to thank you for the good you have done to this dog!
One time stuck will yield 1 or 2 puppies only. If they do come consider it a blessing to humanity, not a burden.
It will make her very happy to be alive, she is making a gift to you!!!!

thanks. it will be a blessing just hope it does her no harm.
do you think she is defo pregnant? i know its a hard thing to diagnose over the net!!

It's not true that a single breeding will only result in one or two puppies. They can have any number of puppies from a single cover. Or none at all.

I'm surprised your vet did not suggest a miss-mating shot, followed by a spay once she's past her heat. This is not an "abortion".

As for your bitch being pregnant, if she's 63 days post breeding and not looking really pregnant, she probably isn't. At 63 days she should have a fairly significant mammary development, not just slightly enlarged nipples, even if she's only carrying a couple of pups.

What's going on is probably a false pregnancy. Due to the dog's reproductive cycle, all female dogs who go through a heat without becoming pregnant experience some degree of false pregnancy, which can include minor bloating, mammary development, and even the production of milk. Some will even experience false labor and adopt a surrogate "puppy", usually a toy, but other objects have been known to attract their maternal instincts. I know of one dachshund who decided the telephone was her puppy.

If she's not pregnant, you need to watch for signs of pyometra until you have her spayed. Pyo is a serious, potentially fatal infection of the uterus. The signs are often subtle. Sometimes just an increase in water consumption and needing to urinate frequently. The other thing to watch for is a foul smelling, green, yellow, or bloody discharge from her vulva. If you notice anything like that, get her to the vet ASAP. She'll need to be spayed immediately, as well as have antibiotics.

thanks for your reply.

i think it is a false pregnancy and infact she has adopted the kitten (who is taking milk from her) should i seperate them or is it ok to leave them to it?

[holly1323]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Hi and welcome! I wish to thank you for the good you have done to this dog!
One time stuck will yield 1 or 2 puppies only. If they do come consider it a blessing to humanity, not a burden.
It will make her very happy to be alive, she is making a gift to you!!!!

No matter how many times stuck all mammals give birth to half the number of their nipples up to the actual number of their nipples.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by holly1323

No matter how many times stuck all mammals give birth to half the number of their nipples up to the actual number of their nipples.

Then explain a woman having triplets or quads or a dog giving birth to 14 pups when only 8 nipples were present. Sorry, this is a myth.

[CorkyMax]

Holly1323, you are answering a thread/post that was started/asked over 2 years ago!----See upper left hand corner of 1st post.

[holly1323]

Originally Posted by Yogi

Then explain a woman having triplets or quads or a dog giving birth to 14 pups when only 8 nipples were present. Sorry, this is a myth.

It's a fact watch discovery and you might learn something. Those instances are limited only a very small percentage (like the lottery). Besides woman who have quads and usually are on fertility treatments. I had a dog who had 10 puppies which some were still birth it happens but is rare. You can't say every dog is going to have a certain # just because one dog did. I go by the average not what other people say theirs has. The average (since you want to be technical) is four to eight (not two and not fourteen).

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

Holly1323, you are answering a thread/post that was started/asked over 2 years ago!----See upper left hand corner of 1st post.

Thanks I haven't done this before, I'm just trying to find out about my dog. My dad said she's been pregnant for a couple of months, but I don't think she is or that he's wrong about the date. There are no real signs just her belly being swollen and sensitive.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by holly1323

It's a fact watch discovery and you might learn something. Those instances are limited only a very small percentage (like the lottery). Besides woman who have quads and usually are on fertility treatments. I had a dog who had 10 puppies which some were still birth it happens but is rare. You can't say every dog is going to have a certain # just because one dog did. I go by the average not what other people say theirs has. The average (since you want to be technical) is four to eight (not two and not fourteen).



Thanks I haven't done this before, I'm just trying to find out about my dog. My dad said she's been pregnant for a couple of months, but I don't think she is or that he's wrong about the date. There are no real signs just her belly being swollen and sensitive.

Since you are new to this I am going to give you a break. I am one of the moderators here with over 50 years of breeding experience. Your reply is derogatory and comes across as spiteful. The remark "its a fact, watch discovery and you might learn something" is simply totally a disrespectful reply on this forum. If you do not know who you are talking to than you may want to curb your replies. To note, you failed to include in your original post anything about averages, instead coming across as this was hardened fact with no mention of the occasional births exceeding the teet count.
I suggest in the future if you are so quick to quote what you hear or read that you refer to all of it. I know that the averages indicate based on the number of teets but you failed to imply there were those outside of this and therefore it is not fact but a myth, based on your wording in your post. As for births exceeding the number of teets. I can assure your from FIRST hand experience, it is not as rare as you seem to think. Just because you watched Discovery does not mean it is fact.
You will learn in life that experience is the real teacher not what you necessarily read from a book or watch on tv. Even Dogs 101 breed history information on several breeds has been flawed so are we to go along with it when even they have failed to research completely? It is alright to question and is advisable to do so instead of assuming because some tv show says it makes it so. The fact is many programs are flawed in their assessment of what they indicate are facts. Don't be too quick to assume it is so. You are coming on a forum with many long time reputable breeders who know what you stated is in fact a myth and not factual based on your original post. In the future therefore, you may want to reply with a little more diligence and ensure that you note the obvious to those who have more experience. It will save having to correct yourself and alienate those here who could help you learn more about the subject. Just a bit of advice from one who does have the experience. Be reminded, Discovery channel is not a breeder, they only gather general information and then air it. No different than finding out those who write books on dog breeds in fact have rarely ever owned the breed or a dog at all. They are simply writers.

[holly1323]

Originally Posted by Yogi

Since you are new to this I am going to give you a break. I am one of the moderators here with over 50 years of breeding experience. Your reply is derogatory and comes across as spiteful. The remark "its a fact, watch discovery and you might learn something" is simply totally a disrespectful reply on this forum. If you do not know who you are talking to than you may want to curb your replies. To note, you failed to include in your original post anything about averages, instead coming across as this was hardened fact with no mention of the occasional births exceeding the teet count.
I suggest in the future if you are so quick to quote what you hear or read that you refer to all of it. I know that the averages indicate based on the number of teets but you failed to imply there were those outside of this and therefore it is not fact but a myth, based on your wording in your post. As for births exceeding the number of teets. I can assure your from FIRST hand experience, it is not as rare as you seem to think. Just because you watched Discovery does not mean it is fact.
You will learn in life that experience is the real teacher not what you necessarily read from a book or watch on tv. Even Dogs 101 breed history information on several breeds has been flawed so are we to go along with it when even they have failed to research completely? It is alright to question and is advisable to do so instead of assuming because some tv show says it makes it so. The fact is many programs are flawed in their assessment of what they indicate are facts. Don't be too quick to assume it is so. You are coming on a forum with many long time reputable breeders who know what you stated is in fact a myth and not factual based on your original post. In the future therefore, you may want to reply with a little more diligence and ensure that you note the obvious to those who have more experience. It will save having to correct yourself and alienate those here who could help you learn more about the subject. Just a bit of advice from one who does have the experience. Be reminded, Discovery channel is not a breeder, they only gather general information and then air it. No different than finding out those who write books on dog breeds in fact have rarely ever owned the breed or a dog at all. They are simply writers.

How do you delete this account? Since no one knows how to except scientific evidence and gets all prissy about the people who research it. My point was I never seen a dog only have two puppies, but since all my dogs were apparently mutants just because they were strays who got pregnant by strays and I wasn't intentional breeding them, this is getting me to upset and doctors claim stress may hurt fetuses, which I guess their probably wrong to since only have a PHD, I'm still not taking any chances, so just drop the subject that started over an idiots 2 year old comment.

[Yogi]

For the record, Amie my Blue and Tan Miniature Pinscher has only had 2 pups both times she was bred. So yes, just because you may not have seen it does not mean it does not exist. I think if you go back to your original post and read what you said, you left a great deal unsaid and that is what is being replied to.
Now you have gone off topic claiming you said something else. How are we suppose to know what you saying unless you clarify it. We cannot read your mind. It is up to the person posting to cover all basis and accept those things that they do not cover as being brought up by those that reply. I am sorry that you cannot see this. It is no different that having a conversation. Leaving something unsaid implies you may not know therefore those you are talking to will point this out. They also cannot guess what you are thinking. That is the problem with forums. You have to address everything not just a thought and assume everyone else knows the rest of it. Most that come here are here because many of us have a great deal more experience and are looking for help and answers. That is what we try to do on this forum. You are new to it so be accepting of this and consider it a learning experience. It was at one time or another for all of us.
If you are asking to be removed from this forum as one who no longer wishes to participate, than just let me know. If you want your posts removed, you can do that by just deleting them.

[Lunareclipse]

Originally Posted by holly1323

How do you delete this account? Since no one knows how to except scientific evidence and gets all prissy about the people who research it. My point was I never seen a dog only have two puppies, but since all my dogs were apparently mutants just because they were strays who got pregnant by strays and I wasn't intentional breeding them, this is getting me to upset and doctors claim stress may hurt fetuses, which I guess their probably wrong to since only have a PHD, I'm still not taking any chances, so just drop the subject that started over an idiots 2 year old comment.

Yes, dogs can have just two puppies. Buster's mother only had two puppies in her first litter. And my grandmother's farm dog only had one puppy. And this post is 2 years old.

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by Lunareclipse

Yes, dogs can have just two puppies. Buster's mother only had two puppies in her first litter. And my grandmother's farm dog only had one puppy. And this post is 2 years old.

First I as Yogi am an experienced breeder as well as one of the mods...Everything Yogi said is correct...A dog CAN have more pups then she does teets and a dog CAN also have only 2 pups....In fact the breeder that I got my current Akita puppy from bred one of her females that usually produces between 5-8 puppies gave birth 2months ago to only one puppy!!!

I would suggest that before you come to a forum that has many experienced breeders and start insulting members you yourself should do a little research!...Yogi is correct that not everything on the Discovery channel or Animal planet is always factual...Those of us with experience in breeding do our best to be helpful to memebers looking for information and as moderators it is our job to protect members from other rude or insulting members...

You started your rudness mind you on a thread that is 2yr.s old...As Yogi said if you wish to delete your account any of us moderatores which also include luna can take care of that for you...

With that being said I see no point in continuing with this since this is in fact a 2yr.old thread and it is serving no positive purpose so I will be locking the thread from any future posting.