how old does the female half to be and the male

Give It UP!!!!

Not trying to be mean, but you don't know enough about breeding to be breeding dogs.

In your other post you mentioned that you want to breed small dogs. Do you know how many small dogs require c-sections to give birth? A lot of them! Do you have the money to pay for one?

Do you know how many small bitches develop eclampsia? A lot of them! Do you know how to tell if your bitch has eclampsia before it's too late? Do you have the money to pay for treatment?

Do you know what brucellosis is? Do you know if you can get it from your dogs? Do you have the money to pay for testing and treatment?

Do you know how to deliver a stuck puppy? Can you deal with dead puppies? Or a dead bitch? Are you willing to get up every 2 hours to feed puppies if you have to?

If you do manage to breed a litter and everything goes off without a hitch, do you have homes lined up for the puppies? What will you do with puppies that you can't find homes for? If someone calls you a year from now and says they can't keep the puppy they bought from you, will you take it back?

YOU make the choice to allow your dogs to breed! YOU are responsible for those puppies being on this earth. If you can't or won't do it right, for God's (and the dogs) sake don't do it at all!

Ok, this is in no way meant to dis breeders, but lately I've spoken with so many people that have OR had a pure bred dog, and their dog has had or has so many health problems! I'm no expert, but all of these problems that are spoken of are genetic issues, diseases, or conditions.

It really makes me question the whole breeding thing.

So many people will say that if you are going to get a dog, stick with a good ol' heinz 57! These are the dogs that seem to be the ones that live the longest without so many predisposed genetic problems.

I know that educated, responsible breeders do what they need to do to ensure the healthiest dogs possible.

But I still can't help wonder, as human beings, are we manipulating mother nature by breeding purebred dogs? That may sound like a weird remark, but think about it...

In the big scheme of things, purebred dogs come from a very small gene pool. No wonder there are so many bred specific genetic health problems.

As I said, breeders can do their best to minimize these problems, but they still exist and it doesn't take an expert to figure out why.

[lulusmom]

It is very disconcerting to see adverse behavioral changes and multiple medical issues in breeds that were once healthy, gentle and great family pets. If a breed becomes popular, it seems that everybody and their uncle is breeding with absolutely no idea what they are doing. I've been around for nigh on way too many years and have watched the degeneration of many breeds. It's a dirty shame!! The problem is that there's no controls and even if they had them, it would take enforcement resources that just aren't available at any government level. Heck, they can't enforce the laws that are on the books now.

I'm including a link to a great boxer site that pretty much explains the problem. Puppy mills are not specifically mentioned but they are a very serious problem and a lot of backyard breeders start with dogs purchased from puppy mills because they are cheap. It makes me sick to my stomach.

I work in small dog rescue and there are plenty of special needs purebreeds in the shelters. People that abandon their dogs when they become a problem are just as bad as backyard breeders so lets give them all the raspberries. Plllllbbbbblllll!

Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder

P.S. Those Heinz 57 you mention are now called designer doggies and are going for big bucks.

breeding dogs for money is immoral. breed dogs for love, and find them loving homes.

So by outlawing breeding, are we just going to let the only form of dog reproduction come from illegal activity and accidents? I thought we want to prevent these?

I'm not a huge supporter of dog breeders, but there's some that really serve a purpose. How's a cattle farmer supposed to herd when there's no good shepherds being bred anymore? Or how about the bloodhounds that help find missing people? Or even those who hunt and require a dog that fits their needs? Breeding dogs was originally for creating companions to help man. Granted a lot of dog breeders don't follow this idea, but there are many that do, and it should be their right to keep alive the original purpose of dogs.

Perhaps change laws so that they narrow down the range of people capable of being actual "breeders"?

Originally Posted by bso_cards

So by outlawing breeding, are we just going to let the only form of dog reproduction come from illegal activity and accidents? I thought we want to prevent these?

I'm not a huge supporter of dog breeders, but there's some that really serve a purpose. How's a cattle farmer supposed to herd when there's no good shepherds being bred anymore? Or how about the bloodhounds that help find missing people? Or even those who hunt and require a dog that fits their needs? Breeding dogs was originally for creating companions to help man. Granted a lot of dog breeders don't follow this idea, but there are many that do, and it should be their right to keep alive the original purpose of dogs.

Perhaps change laws so that they narrow down the range of people capable of being actual "breeders"?

bso you will find that this is the broad perspective of most here, not to ban breeding, but to limit it too those that are able to proove a high standard process, from beginning to end.

In my ideal, i would love to see several things to occur, 1. to assist in controlling overpopulation of unwanted pets, and 2. to increase the accountability to breeders and what their process of breeding are, and the outcome of the pets short AND long term future.

Ideally we could very will begin to manage the number of unwanted pets by banning the sale of pets through stores, this then closes down a good percentage mill and hodge podge breeders who begin to loose their point of sale. (many use pet stores, as if people were to visit them at the venue of breeding im sure they would be horrified of the sights, and walk away, reporting them to authorities on the way)

To begin policing anyone who is advertising the sale of more than 1 or 2 young animals within a certain period of time, requiring these sellers to obtatain and maintain a licence of some sort, (the concept of paid licencing, upon any sort of newspaper, internet, poster advertising, would begin to reduce the number of small time BYB, as it starts cutting into their profit, and they have to make some effort before choosing to breed as well) and/ or anyone who chooses to keep an unaltered animal, should pay a much higher annual registration fee for keeping the animal whole.

In my oppinion, breeders who are breeding to maintain a high, true to type standard of a particuar breed, who follow all appropriate health checks, who scrutinise the families their dogs are going to before agreeing release, who spay or neuter the young animals (or provide a spay/ neuter contract binding the new owners to this task by a set period of time) and breeders that are prepared to back up the health of their animals, are the only ones that really have any business in this business......It is these sorts of breeders I have only ever approached to purchase our pets from.

EG the breeder I got my cat emma from had a spay contract, i had to sign, if she was not spayed within a set period of time and if i did not provide proof of the spay, that she had legal right to enter my home, or find where I was and remove the cat from my possesion, with no refund, or rembursement at all, I signed and agreed to this contract.

The breeder we got Kato from, had him microchipped in her name, not ours, so if he ever were to turn up at a shelter, or got out and found by the coucil, she would be the first to know....not us. Her contracts that we had to sign, stated that she could gain permanant custody (or other arrangement at her descretion) of Kato, if ever he is found in shelter or at large.

Kato also has on him a life time health guarentee, and if he ever were to be diagnosed with any proven heriditary condition, we would be entitled to full refund of the price we payed for him. BIG call really, life time guarentee! The contract does state that we would not be refunded any costs of medical bills, but if a breeder is offering this sort of thing, what benifit would she gain, if she dare risk breeding and producing pups that could carry any heriditary issues?

In all these cases it is fine by me, they are breeders that have been there for us along the way, and who will continue to be so. any issues, question or concerns, they are willing to offer the support/ advice we need. They care about the well being of the animals they keep and most importantly the animals they breed and send to new homes. They are equiped and prepared to take them back if need be, rather than them having to run through the course of a shelter rehoming system. (not that we would ever surrender)

The answer would never be to oultaw breeding, just maybe tighten up the requirements to get a breeding license. We bought Nanuk from a breeder (first dog I've had that wasn't from a shelter) and he is the healthiest thing in the world. But we did our research, and bought from a great breeder who only does a litter when she finds an exceptionally healthy and genetically superior male to breed with one of her girls. She shows the dogs, so takes impeccable care of them. Some breeders are great for the dog world.

[lil mutt]

I hope people will consider to get pets from shelters before they decide to buy one... There are many animals in those institutions that needs a loving home and family.

Originally Posted by lil mutt

I hope people will consider to get pets from shelters before they decide to buy one... There are many animals in those institutions that needs a loving home and family.

I have two purebred boxers from rescue's. Its fairly easy to find a "common" breed in a rescue (labs, boxers, chi's, goldens, etc)

[puppylove2009]

Okay I don't think breeders need to stop all together.

I think Responsible Reputable breeders are something we need. I mean we have many many breeds bred for a purpose. And we need to keep those good breeds

I also feel if we can we should help our animals in the shelters find homes

There are a few different purebred breeds that I would like to have and I will still adopt homeless dogs in the shelters too by giving them a home

We should just continue to boycott BYBs and Puppymills (and continue to educate people about them)

As bso mentions, most breeds were bred originally for a specific purpose, not all of those purposes, however, were laudable, to wit, the dogs bred for pit fighting, or any kind of fighting, and those were not a few, and some of those purposes are now defunct, as in deer coursers.
However, the herders, and many of the other working breeds, have adapted to modern life, and are invaluable in many areas, please do not forget the Labrador, originally bred to assist the Portuguese fishing fleet bring in their nets, then adapted to retrieving gundogs in England, and now.........guide dogs for the blind and assistance dogs for the disabled, therapy dogs, drug sniffers, bomb sniffers, smuggled illegal animal sniffers, locaters of missing persons, or buried persons at disaster sites, among their original purposes, which they still perform, and being the most wonderful companion!
Legislate the breeders, don't eliminate them!!

Originally Posted by schnauzermum

Ok, this is in no way meant to dis breeders, but lately I've spoken with so many people that have OR had a pure bred dog, and their dog has had or has so many health problems! I'm no expert, but all of these problems that are spoken of are genetic issues, diseases, or conditions.
It really makes me question the whole breeding thing.
So many people will say that if you are going to get a dog, stick with a good ol' heinz 57! These are the dogs that seem to be the ones that live the longest without so many predisposed genetic problems.
I know that educated, responsible breeders do what they need to do to ensure the healthiest dogs possible.
But I still can't help wonder, as human beings, are we manipulating mother nature by breeding purebred dogs? That may sound like a weird remark, but think about it...
In the big scheme of things, purebred dogs come from a very small gene pool. No wonder there are so many bred specific genetic health problems.
As I said, breeders can do their best to minimize these problems, but they still exist and it doesn't take an expert to figure out why.

This should be a forum where people make considered posts about issues they have researched.
The mongrel dog has as many, and more, genetic problems as pure-bred dogs. Sometimes an unplanned mating of two disparate breeds produces offspring with what is called "hybrid vigour", but that only lasts one generation.
Humans have manipulated their environment since they first walked upright, and, I have no doubt, will continue to do so until they become extinct as a species.
Also, I beg to differ, it DOES take an expert to figure out why, which is why scientific papers are continually being published about canine and feline, and bovine, and equine, and porcine, ........................................genetics.
The problem is unqualified and ignorant "breeders" who are too irresponsible, and too lazy, to do the required study and research before they contemplate bringing new life into the world, just BECAUSE THEY CAN.

[Lara's mom]

What needs to stop are "accidental" breedings by people who don't have a clue what they're doing. I've bottle raised countless litters of sick puppies who eventually leave me for a very uncertain future. Every time I have to take a litter back to the shelter, it just breaks my heart. I've bonded with each and every one of them. I'm not saying that the only people who are entitled to breed their dogs are those who have pedigrees a mile long. However, before you even think of breeding a litter of puppies, you should have good homes available for each and every one of them.

[lil mutt]

Originally Posted by SwayRaines

I have two purebred boxers from rescue's. Its fairly easy to find a "common" breed in a rescue (labs, boxers, chi's, goldens, etc)

two thumbs for you... People should adopt from rescues first like what you did. I think one of the reason why the number of animals in shelters and rescues are increasing because some owners are not ready for the responsibilities of owning a pet and their only reason why they get a pet because of its cuteness.

[Somebody2Love]

They should atleast be 2 years old, finished AKC champions/working, awesome examples of the breed & passed health tests like OFA, CERF, PennHip, BAER, etc.

[pinsnpugs]

I didnt vote as my choice was not listed.

We need to crack down on the puppymills that are spewing out high volumes of ill and untested dogs and educate the public on finding a responsible breeders who test and use selective breeding when having litters.
Those who take a lifelong responsibility for what they breed including health guarantees and taking their pups back at any time so to not fill the shelters.