[Yogi]

Originally Posted by pablofrett

THANKYOU to MAPLELANE who gave me a fantastic answer. You are one of the few people who are honest on this website and give me a fantastic answer. At least i can give that a try!

Oh, and YOGI if you think so little of people who come on the internet looking for answers then "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ON HERE"???

incompetence breeds incompetence! I come here like most on this site to help those in need not those that are simply to damn lazy to get off their proverbial butts and learn what they need to before coming here. In your case the question is mute and a sign of someone not knowledgeable to even be looking at breeding. Anyone with common sense FIRST goes to a library and finds every book on their breed and studies it. Then seeks out mentors to learn from. You do not learn to breed on the internet had you been competent enough you would have already known this and taken the time to learn like others including myself. I was a breeder for over 48 years and still find it hard to believe the number of people who seem to think they can ask a question like this and actually get an answer that is all encompassing to cover what takes many years to learn. There is more than just getting your dogs to tie. There is all the health issues and testing. There the vets appts to pay for, prenatal. What are you going to do when or if the pups are born and one is not breathing? You going to run over, turn on your computer and go to a dog site and ask what to do? Sorry, your need to breed instead of learning how from the beginning in all likelihood just cost this pup its life. Breeding is all inclusive but you seem to think people may be picking on you for a question you have asked that you should have learned before you even attempted to start breeding. But you are like many that assume the internet is where you learn everything and have obviously not learned the most important lesson, Experience.....it is the best teacher and you get this from learning from hands on not asking for quick answers that in many cases may be wrong. Go learn to read a book on your breed. It will tell you what you need to start with. Then find a breeder in your area and ask if you can work with them. You may actually learn something, like maybe you really are ready to breed. It is very time consuming process that can be very expensive and if you have no real clue what you are doing could find yourself doing more harm then good.
Why I come here is to help those with legitimate questions re: behavior, crate training, teething, the everyday things that most are concerned with and need help with. These are the type of questions that most are here to answer because these can be given generally from experience and do not require spending then next year on the internet answering every little problem that can arise and does more often than not with regards to the art of breeding.
I do not think little of people, only the ones like you that seem to simplify something as breeding to the point that they are too lazy to actually learn but instead run to a computer as if that is the all mighty answer to all questions in the universe. Guess what, it isn't. It is solely one of many resources and like many resources, it is not always the place to find answers. Libraries still exist and books are still written every day. Go to one and learn. You will be doing yourself a big favor and any pup that you bring into the world an even bigger favor.

Well, you aren't going to want to hear this, but it is an honest answer, just the same.

There's a reason why you should wait until your dog is at least two years old before breeding. Quite simply, because some genetic disorders that you do NOT want to reproduce don't become apparent until then. You can't get an OFA evaluation before your dog is 2, and one of the things you don't want to reproduce is Legge/Calve/Perthes disease. This is a crippling hip disorder that is genetic.

Are you aware of how many Shih Tzus have liver shunts? While these will usually show up before the dog is 2, have you investigated the health of the puppies in the litters your dogs came from? If any of them have liver shunts, it's highly likely at least one of your dogs carry the gene.

Epilepsy is also common in Shih Tzus. And it doesn't usually show up before the age of two. Another good reason not to breed before the dog is at least two.

The only good reason to breed a litter is because you have two dogs of exceptional quality, and are sound and in good health. If you haven't had any of the testing that has been mentioned done, you have no way of knowing if your dogs are sound or healthy.

If you're going to do it, don't seek out people who will tell you what you want to hear. Listen to those who have the integrity to point out what you may be doing wrong. If you're going to do it, do it right.

Heres another honest opinion.

Sounds like your too eager for your $$$$$$ to wait a year.

[Yogi]

For the regulars here, I apologize for my blunt remarks but in honesty I have seen far more dogs put down and far more poorly bred all due to people "assuming" to be qualified to breed. In the midst of this I live in one of the two counties recently in the news where nearly 700 dogs were gathered from 3 puppy mill facilities. This is a ridiculous number of dogs for a mother and 2 daughters living in half million dollar homes to have. Knowing that the conditions were deplorable enough that in the first raid they documented 78 dogs living in a attic along with several dead puppies. They later found several dead puppies in a freezer. When they went to the mothers facility they took some 170 dogs and later that night through testing found some with coccidia so went out the next day and took the remaining 308 dogs. Simply put, if you do not know what you are doing, don't do it. If you were seeing what I am seeing everyday for the past week I am confident you would go off also. It is unfortunate but this kind of stuff is happening everywhere. In my case, pups are prearranged otherwise I do not breed them and if anything falls through, I have no problems keeping them and raising them as one of my own. Fact is, there are very few who can or are capable of taking on this type of responsibility. Those are the ones that need to truly look at the process and weigh it thoroughly before engaging in something that can go terribly wrong.

[reeskujo]

Yogi you are not alone with your feelings on this matter....All of of us here especially those of us who are/were responsible breeders and are involved in rescue feel the same way...

Breeding is not for people who are not educated on the subject and those who do it without experience or simply for the money are the oned who produce litters with health and/or temperment issues....The very thing that we responsible breeders work to avoid....They also contribute to the number of dogs in pounds and shelters that are put to sleep in alarming numbers....

I don't think any of the regulars want an apology however that was very considerate of you for those who may be upset or offended by the strong stand we all share on this matter.

I spent 10 years reading, learning from breeders, showing my dogs, taking classes and workshops, reading EVERY book I could find, talking to vets, etc. After 10 years and all that I work I whelped my first litter. All went well and I have gotten glowing reports on the health and temperament of the puppies from that litter. Both parents were old enough to breed and had all their health clearances and tests done. I knew what to do in the event of an emergency as well as knowing how to handle a mating, whelping and the care of puppies. I know I still have more to learn (I think we always have more to learn) but I feel I did it right after 10 years of research!

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by orangedog

I spent 10 years reading, learning from breeders, showing my dogs, taking classes and workshops, reading EVERY book I could find, talking to vets, etc. After 10 years and all that I work I whelped my first litter. All went well and I have gotten glowing reports on the health and temperament of the puppies from that litter. Both parents were old enough to breed and had all their health clearances and tests done. I knew what to do in the event of an emergency as well as knowing how to handle a mating, whelping and the care of puppies. I know I still have more to learn (I think we always have more to learn) but I feel I did it right after 10 years of research!

I agree and congrats on taking the time to research correctly and properly learn. It is just unfortunate that so many seem to think they can ask the question, how do I breed dogs and expect to get a simple answer unless it is someone of their own age who in all honesty has no real knowledge either. I am nearing 60 years of age and will be the first to note as you said, you never stop learning. I constantly follow up with issues regarding health, whelping and over all care of my dogs. I am able to diagnose better than 80% of the time any problems I come across with my existing as well as dogs I rescue and it comes from researching, learning and storing what has been learned away so I can call on it when needed. My vets usually chuckle when I come in and tell them what I want them to test for. Usually the retort is something in the line of: Yogi, you already know what the problem is what do you need me for. I have to reply that I do not have access to their lab or x-ray or prescription pad. I paid for my orthopedic surgeons daughters to go to college with all the broken bones and torn ligaments playing ball and being a longshoreman and bouncer and now I am paying for my vets summer cabin with the volume of dogs I rescue and pay out of pocket for mis diagnosed medical conditions or peoples failure to address a medical condition in their dog. I recently spent $500.00 having a mass cell tumor removed from the hind leg of a 9lbs Miniature Pinscher. The dog was actually being fostered for a well known Miniature Pinscher rescue organization and instead of addressing the issue elected to just try to adopt it out. I have easily spent in the last 20 years alone, over $30.0K on vets. Of this better than 90% has been for other peoples dogs. Most have come from poor breeding or from people who simply did not research properly before going out and getting a dog. I see nothing wrong with being a breeder so long as you are knowledgeable and have taken the time to learn correctly. It may seem old school to young people but when all is said and done, there is no new school way of learning how to be a good breeder and the learning process never ends.

You are welcome to PM me with any questions i may be able to help with. Have been breeding shih tzu for about 5 years. I have had 6 litters in that time, but my stud was also used and i have been active in the whelping of those girls.
You must breed responsibly and make sure you know exacly where your puppies are going and vet any potential owners before selling your shih tzu babies.
Good luck to you, everyone has to start somewhere..
Eimear

I am new to this site but I will have to say from experience that she is to young..if you have to hold her up and she whines and cries then that is telling you something....I breed mine to young as I heard you could breed small breeds younger..NOT she had nothing but problems...she never had enough milk to feed her babies after they were born...she never new what to even do when she had the puppies...I felt so bad...I ended up bottle feeding most of them...I would listen to the ones that have been breeding for years as you learn more with practice then you do from a book..and they sound like they have been doing a great job...good luck with your breeding...

Originally Posted by Eimear Kirkby

You are welcome to PM me with any questions i may be able to help with. Have been breeding shih tzu for about 5 years. I have had 6 litters in that time, but my stud was also used and i have been active in the whelping of those girls.
You must breed responsibly and make sure you know exacly where your puppies are going and vet any potential owners before selling your shih tzu babies.
Good luck to you, everyone has to start somewhere..
Eimear

If you've bred bitches on their third heat, then you've been breeding them without getting the proper health clearances that you should have gotten. Hips and knees can't be certified before 2 years of age.

You're right that you must breed responsibly. But how responsible is it to breed without getting the proper testing done first?

Sure, everyone has to start somewhere. And the place to start is doing your research first, finding out what testing needs to be done. Evaluating your bitch and stud to see how well they measure up to the breed standard. Then doing some more research. Understand bloodlines. Discover what problems may exist in both dog's background. Be prepared for the worst. Know what you're doing before you do it.