[PuppyKisses]

Hello again!
I have a lot of tough questions--thanks for anyone who may have some insight:

Our breeding contract states that--
*females must have passing hip scores (OFA), and it is encouraged to wait until their third heat before breeding

*males must have passing hip scores (OFA), and must be at least one year old before breeding.

Um--hip scores cannot be done until 2 years old. Does this mean that preliminary hip scores count in this case? And more than likely, a female's third heat is when she's about 18 months old. Is this a built in loophole? I'm probably missing something here--maybe someone can explain.
This is a large breed of dog, and there are some issues in the breed with dysplasia. Wouldn't, then, a responsible breeder wait until both male and female are two years old to get the concrete OFA scores?

Thank you!!!!!!

[Lara's mom]

I have one simple question: Is this "new rare breed" actually recognised or, are you breeding crossbreeds?

[Todd]

I would think a good, responseable breeding like you said would wait until the male and female are both closer to 2 years of age so you can have the OFA scores done. No rush in breeding early, although some breeders do do this. I wouldn't consider those type of breeders responseable though. I'm no expert, but I'd say wait.

[OrangeDog]

A responsable breeder would wait until BOTH dogs are at least 2 years old and have cleared hips, elbows, heart, eyes, thyroid, patella and any other testing that must be done for their breed. Most of these tests cannot even be done until a dog is 2 years old. Anything else would raise giant red flags for me!

[Lunareclipse]

Since you said it was large brred, are you breeding Saint Bernards and Mastiffs? I hope you aren't breeding food for China. If you are breeding Kurdish Kangals, may I have one? After the parents have passed all proper tests, of course.

[PuppyKisses]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I have one simple question: Is this "new rare breed" actually recognised or, are you breeding crossbreeds?

It is not a "Rare Breed" per AKC like a Catahoula. But a rare breed - as in there aren't many of them. In fact there are so few of them in the US that there aren't even enough to apply for "Rare Breed" status. (less than 400--you need 400 to apply, I think)

No, this is not a crossbreed. There is a central registry, etc. and the dogs breed pure to type. Well, unless you consider everything that isn't AKC registered a crossbreed--you have to start somewhere! And no, I'm not the new breed founder. The breed was started in the 1970s, but has only been in the US for less than 10 years.

Ooo, look--maybe I started a guessing game

[OrangeDog]

Just curious why you won't tell us what you have... are they illegal is some states like a wolf hybred or something? Most of us (from what I can tell anyway) are always interested in learning about new things (including a breed some of us may not have heard of). I see many "rare" breeds at dog shows breeds that are NOT AKC and are no where near being able to apply. maybe I have seen what you have, maybe sonebody on here has one... you never know. I think we will be able to help you much better if we know what you have. Otherwise you are going to get very general, not terribly helpfull info.

[PuppyKisses]

Originally Posted by OrangeDog

A responsable breeder would wait until BOTH dogs are at least 2 years old and have cleared hips, elbows, heart, eyes, thyroid, patella and any other testing that must be done for their breed. Most of these tests cannot even be done until a dog is 2 years old. Anything else would raise giant red flags for me!

Thank you OrangeDog. This is what I think, too.

Originally Posted by Todd

I would think a good, responseable breeding like you said would wait until the male and female are both closer to 2 years of age so you can have the OFA scores done. No rush in breeding early, although some breeders do do this. I wouldn't consider those type of breeders responseable though. I'm no expert, but I'd say wait.

And thank you Todd.

[Todd]

If anyone's interested, here's a little info I found online about breeding age for female dogs and hop scoring;

Responsible breeders are those who carefully select a mate for Puffin or Princess; make sure she’s hale and hardy before breeding; and get her checked for hip dysplasia, eye diseases, deafness, or any other breed-related genetic abnormality. And they make sure the male selected to father the litter is just as healthy.

Most experts recommend that a female dog reach at least two years of age before breeding. The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals will certify hips as well-formed or dysplastic at two years, and that watershed age assures that most bitches will have developed the physical and behavioral characteristics that determine whether they should be allowed to contribute puppies to the breed’s gene pool. In addition, two-year old bitches are generally mature enough to carry and nourish a litter.

Some large or giant breeds are still growing at two years and breeders may prefer to wait even longer before producing a litter.

All breeds – mixes included – suffer from genetic abnormalities. Some of these abnormalities can be detected by x-rays or through blood tests or DNA screens. Skeletal malformations such as hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, and loose kneecaps (luxating patellas) can be detected by x-ray. These joint deformities can cause painful arthritis in later years, can be passed on to offspring, and may lead to expensive surgeries and the emotion trauma of euthanizing a young dog that is afflicted beyond repair.

*As far as males go, I have come to the conclusion that males should NOT breed until they reach full maturity. When the dog reaches full maturity depends on the breed just like it does with the female. A toy breed may reach maturity at 6 months while a giant breed may reach maturity at 2 years. Do your homework about when the paticular breed reaches full maturity depending on the type of dog you wish to breed.

[Lara's mom]

Well, perhaps it's just me but when people cause needless drama by playing these kind of games, it tends to make me reluctant to trust anything they say...What is the big deal about talking about what breed you have unless that breed is illegal where you are or you are breeding mutts and passing them off as designer dogs?

[Lunareclipse]

My uncle has a large breed dog that he had imported from Europe. I'll have to call and ask him what it is. I guess there are only about 20 in the US. Maybe I can write the name down here after I find out. He's huge.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by PuppyKisses

It is not a "Rare Breed" per AKC like a Catahoula. But a rare breed - as in there aren't many of them. In fact there are so few of them in the US that there aren't even enough to apply for "Rare Breed" status. (less than 400--you need 400 to apply, I think)

No, this is not a crossbreed. There is a central registry, etc. and the dogs breed pure to type. Well, unless you consider everything that isn't AKC registered a crossbreed--you have to start somewhere! And no, I'm not the new breed founder. The breed was started in the 1970s, but has only been in the US for less than 10 years.

Ooo, look--maybe I started a guessing game

So simply put, this is in fact a cross breed. Understand that existing purebreds have been around for hundreds of years that are listed and properly registered with FCI, UKC, CKC and AKC. Only few that are old breeds that have only recently been acknowledged and given registration status are actually true rare breeds. What you call new breeds are in fact designer breeds no matter where they come from. As you stated, it is a new breed being created in the 70's, does not make it a breed other than a mutt or mixed or designer. Not until it is officially recognized by a legitimate registry which takes to be honest many many years can you call this anything but what it truly is. That being said and you failing to acknowledge this alleged breed only seems to indicate that your reluctance in telling us the name is that you know it is a mix and not an actual breed.

Here is a list of the numerous purebred mixed mutts that currently are registered with the ACHC.
To note, the definition of Hybrid is not factual as it calls for the creation of something from 2 different species. As mixing dog breeds is not mixing species the term Hybrid is in fact false. These are simply mixed breeds.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/american...hybridclub.htm

[OrangeDog]

Let me guess... It's a Mastapoo! Are you mixing mastiffs and poodles?

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by OrangeDog

A responsable breeder would wait until BOTH dogs are at least 2 years old and have cleared hips, elbows, heart, eyes, thyroid, patella and any other testing that must be done for their breed. Most of these tests cannot even be done until a dog is 2 years old. Anything else would raise giant red flags for me!

I totally agree.

See with me, I also want to see some titles behind BOTH Sire and Dam. My dogs not only come from Ch lines,they come from working SchH lines. This is how ETHICAL breeders do it.