[mellyodieo]

i purchased an english bulldog at 8 weeks...shortly after getting him he had patches of hair missing and his eye was irritated so took him to the vet after a couple of visits he was diagnosed withcherry eye and demodex mange...he was treated and it returned he was treated and again it returned so we went to a different vet and was treated it cleared up for a week and returned he is now almost 8 month old and we have been dealing with this since he was 11 weeks old the vet says now that he is not getting better and has new spots developing it is probably an autoimune disease...the question i have is i paid 1500 for him i talked to the breader from the begining and she wont do anything to make us happy not taking the dog back,or refunding a portion of our money...Is this the norm for breeders? and what should i do if anything from here?

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by mellyodieo

i purchased an english bulldog at 8 weeks...shortly after getting him he had patches of hair missing and his eye was irritated so took him to the vet after a couple of visits he was diagnosed withcherry eye and demodex mange...he was treated and it returned he was treated and again it returned so we went to a different vet and was treated it cleared up for a week and returned he is now almost 8 month old and we have been dealing with this since he was 11 weeks old the vet says now that he is not getting better and has new spots developing it is probably an autoimune disease...the question i have is i paid 1500 for him i talked to the breader from the begining and she wont do anything to make us happy not taking the dog back,or refunding a portion of our money...Is this the norm for breeders? and what should i do if anything from here?

Did you get a written health guarantee? Many breeders will offer a 1 or 2 year health guarantee with their pups. If not, then the only option may be to sue in small claims court. It is difficult without a contract agreement with regards to health and pups.

[mellyodieo]

i didnot get a health guarantee in writing. she said to me and my husband that she was giving us a 6mo health guarentee and when i called her to let her know what was wrong with the puppy she said that she only guaaenteed heart and internal organs..that the mange was only a puppy issue and the cherry eye was normal...Will i have a leg to stand on since she didnt give me anything in writing? I do have a text that says "when i gave you a health guarantee it was for heart and internal organs not include cherry eye or demodex mange which are common in growing puppys"
she also said that she had talked with other breeders and they agreed with her

[Yogi]

Part of the problem appears that you may have not researched the breed enough before purchasing. In this breed, cherry eye is a common infliction. Therefore the chances are great that a pup can incur this. As for the remark the breeder noted regarding demodex mange being something normal in puppies. This is simply not true. Demodex is brought on by stress primarily and this in no way means that puppies are prone to this.
Being it is a microscopic mite that lives on dogs, recommended home treatment is 1/2 cc of Mitaban mixed with 30 cc of mineral oil. Applied to the coat (avoid the eyes) once a day for 2 weeks. Leaving the mixture on. Toss the remaining mixture as only good for 2 weeks. You can also mix 5.3 cc Mitaban with 1 gal of water and sponge on again avoiding the eyes. Same routine, once a day for 2 weeks then toss what is left.
Dermatitis in pups is considered normal to a degree but not demodex. The breeder obviously is confused.
As for the text, you could probably consult with an attorney to see what they think. It is difficult though without something in writing in the way of a contract. Good Luck.

[Todd]

I cannot comment on what you should do because I am unfarmiliar with these aspects of breeding, but if you end up keeping the pup I though I'd give you some tips on treating the mange. Here's an explanation of exactly what this type of mange is;

Demodectic mange, also called "demodicosis," is caused by a microscopic mite of the Demodex genus. Three species of Demodex mites have been identified in dogs: Demodex canis, Demodex gatoi, and Demodex injai. The most common mite of demodectic mange is Demodex canis. All dogs raised normally by their mothers possess this mite as mites are transferred from mother to pup via cuddling during the first few days of life. Most dogs live in harmony with their mites, never suffering any consequences from being parasitized. If, however, conditions change to upset the natural equilibrium (such as some kind of suppression of the dog's immune system), the Demodex mites may "gain the upper hand." The mites proliferate and can cause serious skin disease.

What are you currently doing to treat the mange and what have you done in the past?

Here are some medical treatments that you have probably already tried;

Ivermectin is a broad spectrum anti-parasite medication with a number of uses though
its use in treating demodicosis is not approved by the FDA. When ivermectin was a new drug it was hoped that it could be used against demodectic mange mites as at that time only fairly toxic dips were available and incurable cases were common. After some experimentation it was found that daily or every other day dosing is necessary for effective demodicosis treatment and soon ivermectin was felt unequivocally to be the drug of choice for this condtion. Note that the weekly protocols that work for other parasites simply do not work on Demodex mites.

Ivermectin is inexpensive relative to Milbemycin (see below) and involves no labor intensive bathing. It DOES, however, taste terrible if given orally (it may be necessary for the owner to learn how to give ivermectin as an injectable treatment.) There is, unfortunately, an important occasional problem that keeps other treatment options listed: drug sensitivity. Some individual dogs are sensitive to ivermectin and can die if subjected to a typical therapeutic dose for demodicosis.

TRADITIONAL TREATMENT -- AMITRAZ (MITABAN) DIPS

Unless the animal is largely bald or has a short coat, complete clipping will be required for maximal contact with the dip.

Dip should be preceded by a benzoyl peroxide bath to help clear up skin infections and open the hair follicles so the dip can penetrate to the mites. Shampoo must sit on the pet at least 10 minutes before rinsing. CAUTION: this type of shampoo can stain jewelry and clothing.

Dip is applied by sponge. Gloves should be worn while applying dip. The dip dries on the dog's fur and should not be rinsed off. The dog should not get wet between dips.

Dipping occasionally yields mild sedation as a side effect. Very small dogs may become highly sedated and require an antidote but this is unusual. For your convenience, dipping and bathing may be performed at the hospital thus allowing for veterinary supervision in the event of side effects.

Dipping/bathing is recommended every two weeks according to the FDA approved label on the bottle of dip. Most universities are finding that the cure rate jumps from 25% to 80% when dip is used at double strength and applied weekly. No toxic effects have been seen using the dip in this way and this is our current recommendation when opting for dips except in very small dogs and puppies.

Dipping is a fair alternative for ivermectin in collie breeds and in ivermectin sensitive individuals.

(This dipping method should NOT be used on toy breeds or pups under 4 months of age)

Interceptor (active ingredient: Milbemycin oxime) is normally marketed as a monthly heartworm preventive; when it is used on a daily basis, it is effective against generalized demodicosis. This discovery was welcomed by the veterinary profession as finally demodicosis can be treated without labor intensive dipping or concern about ivermectin sensitivity. The downside to this treatment is expense as Interceptor is typically sold in 6 dose packages and it is not uncommon for several months of treatment to be needed. Sometimes it is possible to obtain discounted product that is short-dated (meaning it will expire before six months have passed). This product cannot be sold for heartworm prevention if it will expire before it is used up but for daily use against Demodex mites it would be fine and used well before its expiration date.

If traditional meds haven't been working for you or you are afraid of there potentially harmful side sffects, try some natural remedies which is also my preference;

Fish oil is great for the coat/skin.

Bathe the dog with an all natural, herbal shampoo.

Use a lyme dip.


This type of mange is highly perpetuated by a WEAKEN IMMUNE SYSTEM. What are you currently feeding the dog? A healthy raw or home cooked diet could clear everything up. Here's a post from someone on another forum;

The whole problem with Demodex is the dog has a poor immune system. All dogs carry the mites, but dogs with a good immune system keep them to a minimum and under control. When a dogs immune system suffers, the mites can take over and become a problem. Dips and chemicals may work to kill the mites BUT the also kill the immune system (the actual problem!) even more! So they will make "what you see" go away, the symptoms, but only make the REAL problem worse.

We had a dog here with demodex once... we put her on a good all natural raw diet, gave her vit C and other immune boosting herbs, and it easily cleard up on her own! I would not use the dips/chemicals for this. I also would not give any chemicals on the dog - meaning no frontline or other flea preventative like that, no vaccinations, etc...

There is info out there on the net about treating it naturally if you look it up on a search.

Good luck!
Val

If you do decide to go with raw though, have the dog on immune boosting supplements for at least a few months to strengthen the immune system because a raw diet can be potentially harmful with a compromised immune system.

Here are several ways to boost the immune system;

4Life Transfer Factor Research has developed a product which supports your dog's immune system like no other. There are many good colostrum products available (and which are widely used to boost immunity), which have only 1/30 of the effectiveness of 4Life Transfer Factor Plus. 4Life Transfer Factor Plus contains Transfer factors sourced from bovine colustrum, avian eggs, and herbal extracts, and has been shown to boost the immune system by 437 percent!

Many herbs have proven results with respect to the immune system. Taraxacum officinalis (Dandelion) is a rich source of vitamins and minerals, including Vitamin A, D, C, various B Vitamins, iron, lecithin, silicon, potassium, magnesium, zinc and manganese. Echinacea purpurea is well known for its excellent benefits for immune functioning and for its antifungal, antiviral and antibacterial properties.

Withania somnifera (Ashwagandha) and Silybum marianum (Milk Thistle) are also beneficial, with Milk Thistle regarded as one of the most important herbal liver tonics and restoratives with the medical use of Milk Thistle traced back more than 2000 years!

Scientific analysis of Milk Thistle shows that it contains a flavonoid complex called silymarin, which is a powerful anti-oxidant - largely responsible for the medical benefits of this herb. These herbs work as a tonic for the immune system and are often recommended to prevent and assist recovery from illness or infection.

[mellyodieo]

thank you.....the cherry eye isnt much of a concern the demodex is i included the cherry eye for history purposes.....I tried to talk to her and give her information i have found and she keeps telling me i am missinformed...


Is there still a possibility he will grow out of this? he is almost 8 months old

we have used topical and oral treatments...it gets better and he looks as though he is on the road to recovery the vet scrapes him and we get a 0 within a week or two i see thinning spots of hair.....I will try the new diet and vitamins thank you any new apprach will be a breath of fresh air

I am still disapointed about the lack of initiative by the breeder to solve the issue at hand.....I hope this isnt the normal way breeders act when they incounter a problem with one of there puppies...she said she has been breeding for twenty years and never had a problem...if that is the case then why wasnt she more inclined to resolve this between us rather than have to take it to court but it looks like that is going to be my only option


I hope other breeders will read this and not do the same as she did to me

[Todd]

Originally Posted by mellyodieo

thank you.....the cherry eye isnt much of a concern the demodex is i included the cherry eye for history purposes.....I tried to talk to her and give her information i have found and she keeps telling me i am missinformed...


Is there still a possibility he will grow out of this? he is almost 8 months old

we have used topical and oral treatments...it gets better and he looks as though he is on the road to recovery the vet scrapes him and we get a 0 within a week or two i see thinning spots of hair.....I will try the new diet and vitamins thank you any new apprach will be a breath of fresh air

I am still disapointed about the lack of initiative by the breeder to solve the issue at hand.....I hope this isnt the normal way breeders act when they incounter a problem with one of there puppies...she said she has been breeding for twenty years and never had a problem...if that is the case then why wasnt she more inclined to resolve this between us rather than have to take it to court but it looks like that is going to be my only option


I hope other breeders will read this and not do the same as she did to me

What are you feeding the dog? As I said the cause of mange is often a result of a weakened immune system and diet can play a major role in imune functioning. You'd be surprised how many issues like this can often be resolved with diet. remember the old saying, we are what we eat.

[Lara's mom]

I've only ever gotten 2 dogs from a breeder (my 2 shorty JRT's) so I'm not an expert on what is considered standard but, both of my Jacks came with a health guarantee in writing.

My border collie X also came from a breeder but, she was the result of an accidental breeding so, all the breeder wanted was for the puppies to get good homes and I didn't get any kind of paperwork/ guarantee for her so, it really doesn't count.

[Yogi]

Keeping in mind the primary reason for demodex is directly linked to stress, illness, dehydration, whelping and heat. Which these things are what cause the immune system to weaken more often than not in the first place, thus causing the mites to engage in more activity with less checks in place. It is not the immune system that is causing the problem, it is the items noted causing the immune system to weaken which prevents it from fighting the problem. To note, the Mitaban solution I mentioned has been used successfully by breeders and others for years. Ivermectin is at the severe end of the spectrum and generally is not recommended unless you are looking at generalized demodex where most of the dog is inflicted with the problem. Localized does not require a dip but treating the areas themselves. In which case this solution is the most common. Reducing the mite problem increases the dogs immune system which in turn enables it to control the common amount found on dogs. Borax is another solution which is occasionally used and does well to kill the eggs of mites.

[mellyodieo]

i am feeding him royal canin...that is what he has had from the day i got him...the vet recomended it....it started with a big spot on his head, one on the sholder, and a small one on his foot. those all healed and hair grew back no sign there was ever a problem. he got small spots from there one would heal and another would come up, now he has small thinning spots on the sides of his belly and two big ones on his back...he prob has 20 small ones on his sides....im not sure what would be weeking his imune system he hasnt been sick no dehydration that i know of, and he doesnt seem stressed at all...we also have a female that is almost three and perfectly healthy and he pesters her but she isnt mean to him when he gets too rough she usually barks at him and walks to her kennel

what were you feeding your dog when you say raw diet? id like to try that

[Yogi]

to re-iterate, the immune system is weakened by those issues I noted. The diet is not causing this. If you read up on puppies and transition even with rescue dogs you will see that there is stress when moving from one place to another. In puppies it is sometimes latent and generally the issue never becomes one that needs to be addressed but in either case, weakened immune systems are caused not by themselves but by illness, stress, whelping, dehydration, or heat. This is why it is most often associated with stress. Whether you see it or not in which most people cannot tell if their dog is suffering from stress or not.
Being that this is localized demodex, the common treatment would be recommended treating only the areas effected. As for the food, it is fine and is not going to effect the immune system at this point. What is effecting the immune system is the mange and the fact that any time the body is diverting continued attention to an infection or attack, eventually the immune system will start to wear down and weaken.
Treating the issue will afford the dogs immune system time to naturally regain strength. It is no different than the human body when you have a cold or the flu. Your system weakens. In this case your dog is suffering from an illness, treat it to help the immune system do its thing and as you treat the issue the immune system will continue to get stronger and eventually start fighting this on its own. It is still a puppy and therefore its immune system is not totally up to snuff so to speak yet. You could if nothing else as far as diet, look back to puppy foods also look at goats milk. Added to the diet is the closest thing to the dams milk and contains all the nutrients that can help bolster the dogs natural growth and development. The same way the dams milk had done. At what age did the breeder say she weaned the pups off the dam. Also, 8 weeks is though recognized age to sell/adopt, in most cases the pup is not totally weaned. Weaning is actually 2 stages. When the pup no longer nurses and then when it has been socialized through time with litter mates and the dam teaching and imprinting. Realistically, most pups are not ready to go til 10 to 13 weeks depending on the dam and the litter.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by mellyodieo

i am feeding him royal canin...that is what he has had from the day i got him...the vet recomended it....it started with a big spot on his head, one on the sholder, and a small one on his foot. those all healed and hair grew back no sign there was ever a problem. he got small spots from there one would heal and another would come up, now he has small thinning spots on the sides of his belly and two big ones on his back...he prob has 20 small ones on his sides....im not sure what would be weeking his imune system he hasnt been sick no dehydration that i know of, and he doesnt seem stressed at all...we also have a female that is almost three and perfectly healthy and he pesters her but she isnt mean to him when he gets too rough she usually barks at him and walks to her kennel

what were you feeding your dog when you say raw diet? id like to try that

Many feel that this is not linked to nutrition but I beg to differ. Just remember, this is my OPINION and I am not trying to start any arguements. I honestly think these issues can be highly improved with a healthy diet. It's at least worth a shot isn't it?

There are several types of raw diets. One is a BARF diet which basically includes raw ground meat and bone as well as vegetables and possibly some fruits as well. I feed mostly a prey model diet with some veggies and fruits on the side as well as a whole food supplement in the morning. A prey model diet is basically raw meat and whole bones like a chicken quarter or turkey leg. Organ meat is also important. Here are a few great links explaining the raw diet, which I personally believe is the best diet most dogs could ever be put onto. There are also pre made raw diets they sell online and at pet stores but it's a lot cheaper to put it together yourself. I personally believe that the food you are feeding is a very poor food. I believe that vets aren't given that much nutritional training for they must focus on other things. Again, not trying to start a debate here. Anyway, here info on the raw diet;

Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats

Raw Feeding FAQ

BARF Diet - Healthy & Natural Raw Food For Dogs & Cats, Pet Health Care Food & Nutrition Products Supply Online

Raw Fed Dogs

Raw Diet For Dogs: The Basics

THE MANY MYTHS ABOUT RAW FEEDING

*There are also many youtube vids on raw feeding. Check this out;

YouTube - dog fed raw

Also, feel free to check out my social group. Just click on my name here and you'll see something on the right side that says social group and it says raw feeders. I've posted a lot of helpful stuff there. I'll also send you an invite if you'd like to join and discuss any question yyou may have there.

*I would def. give this diet a try at least and see how things go. BTW, don't forget the fish oil. Or better yet, try adding some fresh fish. This is great for skin/coat health. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!

[Yogi]

Todd, what you are missing here is the progression of how this works.
Immune system is weakened by the mites ie: demodex. Demodex mange is not brought on by what foods the dog is eating which is why it is a mute point. It is brought on by those issues I have noted. If you follow the chain of how this works you will see that diet does not play a role in this. Demodex is brought on by stress which is the most common factory in demodex mange and that fact that it is localized and not generalized can easily support this. Secondly, illness, whelping, heat and dehydration of which are noted clearly as the causes of demodex mange. No where does it state that diet is a cause.
As for the immune system weakness, as stated. Anytime the body is fighting off an illness it wears down the immune system. This is why you treat the illness. Treating the diet will do nothing for the illness at this point. If it could bolster the immune system it still would not resolve the illness. We are attempting to eliminate the cause of the demodex and that is where all efforts from those who reply need to be. What is causing it and what can be done to correct it.
By doing this, the immune system will naturally return to normal for a 8 month old puppy who's immune system is naturally weaker than an adult dog.
So at this point, lets stay on the topic of demodex mange and ways to cure this. Being it is a puppy, stress very well could be the cause of it. In many cases people do not actually see stress in a dog especially in a puppy since they have no set routines so to speak of. Appears general illness has been ruled out. The dog is not in heat, nor whelping and no mention of dehydration. This leaves only one cause for this, Stress....
Now the question is why is the pup dealing with stress. As I stated, leaving to early from the litter where it was not given time to acclimate and spend proper weaning time with litter mates as well as socializing with the dam can create these issues of stress. Even after several months. Being that the demodex occurred at 11 weeks tells me the pup left too early.
Even a dog raw fed can suffer from demodex mange. Keeping this in mind, we need to help with the cause not the immune system as that will correct itself on its own once the demodex issue is resolved. I appreciate your willingness to look at the diet in this case but treating the immune system at this point will not necessarily address the demodex. First we need to find out what is causing the demodex than look at all options in order to properly go from there.
Be reminded that diet and what a dog eats does not control mange. Especially demodex. It is brought on by only the 5 reasons mentioned. This being said and ruling out the other 4 leaves us with stress. There obviously is something going on with this pup that has not been noticed or seen. This is what we first need to find out before going off on diets, assumptions etc.
To note though that raw feed can address the immune system development, it may not necessarily cure the demodex. Which is why we need to know what is causing it in the first place. Diets are fine for the immune system but do not address the actual issue of mange as OP questioned. Keeping in mind also that the vet did not state the dog had an auto immune deficiency but thought that it could have. In which case raw diet would be beneficial if that is the case.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Yogi

Todd, what you are missing here is the progression of how this works.
Immune system is weakened by the mites ie: demodex. Demodex mange is not brought on by what foods the dog is eating which is why it is a mute point. It is brought on by those issues I have noted. If you follow the chain of how this works you will see that diet does not play a role in this. Demodex is brought on by stress which is the most common factory in demodex mange and that fact that it is localized and not generalized can easily support this. Secondly, illness, whelping, heat and dehydration of which are noted clearly as the causes of demodex mange. No where does it state that diet is a cause.
As for the immune system weakness, as stated. Anytime the body is fighting off an illness it wears down the immune system. This is why you treat the illness. Treating the diet will do nothing for the illness at this point. If it could bolster the immune system it still would not resolve the illness. We are attempting to eliminate the cause of the demodex and that is where all efforts from those who reply need to be. What is causing it and what can be done to correct it.
By doing this, the immune system will naturally return to normal for a 8 month old puppy who's immune system is naturally weaker than an adult dog.
So at this point, lets stay on the topic of demodex mange and ways to cure this. Being it is a puppy, stress very well could be the cause of it. In many cases people do not actually see stress in a dog especially in a puppy since they have no set routines so to speak of. Appears general illness has been ruled out. The dog is not in heat, nor whelping and no mention of dehydration. This leaves only one cause for this, Stress....
Now the question is why is the pup dealing with stress. As I stated, leaving to early from the litter where it was not given time to acclimate and spend proper weaning time with litter mates as well as socializing with the dam can create these issues of stress. Even after several months. Being that the demodex occurred at 11 weeks tells me the pup left too early.
Even a dog raw fed can suffer from demodex mange. Keeping this in mind, we need to help with the cause not the immune system as that will correct itself on its own once the demodex issue is resolved. I appreciate your willingness to look at the diet in this case but treating the immune system at this point will not necessarily address the demodex. First we need to find out what is causing the demodex than look at all options in order to properly go from there.
Be reminded that diet and what a dog eats does not control mange. Especially demodex. It is brought on by only the 5 reasons mentioned. This being said and ruling out the other 4 leaves us with stress. There obviously is something going on with this pup that has not been noticed or seen. This is what we first need to find out before going off on diets, assumptions etc.
To note though that raw feed can address the immune system development, it may not necessarily cure the demodex. Which is why we need to know what is causing it in the first place. Diets are fine for the immune system but do not address the actual issue of mange as OP questioned. Keeping in mind also that the vet did not state the dog had an auto immune deficiency but thought that it could have. In which case raw diet would be beneficial if that is the case.

All I'm saying is that diet would potentially help the immune system to strengthen which should help the mange because of that fact that a weakened immune system can be a contributing factor in this condition. I'm not saying that diet alone is going to fix everything here but I certainly firmly believe that it would help quite a bit.

[Yogi]

I have no doubt it would help, but would it cure the mange...in all likelihood no. Keep in mind we are dealing with a puppy not an adult dog who's immune system is fully developed. Looking at it this way we are left to address the 5 issues that actually cause demodex and the only one that fits and ironically it is the most common is stress. So we need to concentrate efforts on what is causing it in order to actually cure it. The Mitaban treatments do kill mites successfully when applied as noted to localized demodex mange. This in turn will by rights increase the dogs immune system also with no change to anything.
But helping to re-enforce the dogs immune system though beneficial it is not actually going to cure the issue. We need to know what is causing it in the first place otherwise all we are doing is putting a band aid where stitches need to be. It will only return. It would be nice if we knew if in fact the pup does suffer from an auto immune deficiency but until it is tested we are left with too much assumption. In which case, all the advice in actuality means nothing as we are basically blowing in the wind. Simply put, diets etc are a mute point at this time until we first find out what is causing the demodex and address it. For all we know, the other dog could be causing it. It does not take much for a puppy to feel stress. Especially if there is another dog that one thinks they are fine with when in fact they are not.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Yogi

I have no doubt it would help, but would it cure the mange...in all likelihood no. Keep in mind we are dealing with a puppy not an adult dog who's immune system is fully developed. Looking at it this way we are left to address the 5 issues that actually cause demodex and the only one that fits and ironically it is the most common is stress. So we need to concentrate efforts on what is causing it in order to actually cure it. The Mitaban treatments do kill mites successfully when applied as noted to localized demodex mange. This in turn will by rights increase the dogs immune system also with no change to anything.
But helping to re-enforce the dogs immune system though beneficial it is not actually going to cure the issue. We need to know what is causing it in the first place otherwise all we are doing is putting a band aid where stitches need to be. It will only return. It would be nice if we knew if in fact the pup does suffer from an auto immune deficiency but until it is tested we are left with too much assumption. In which case, all the advice in actuality means nothing as we are basically blowing in the wind. Simply put, diets etc are a mute point at this time until we first find out what is causing the demodex and address it. For all we know, the other dog could be causing it. It does not take much for a puppy to feel stress. Especially if there is another dog that one thinks they are fine with when in fact they are not.

I can understand what you're saying but I believe we both agree on the fact that diet would certainly help if not anything else.

[Yogi]

I agree that the diet would help the immune system but all I am saying is that the OP was not addressing this but was addressing how to cure the mange. We need to know what is causing it and as there is nothing at this time supporting auto immune deficiency (at least until the pup is tested for it) we have to look at stress. What is causing the stress than we can work on the next step.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Yogi

I agree that the diet would help the immune system but all I am saying is that the OP was not addressing this but was addressing how to cure the mange. We need to know what is causing it and as there is nothing at this time supporting auto immune deficiency (at least until the pup is tested for it) we have to look at stress. What is causing the stress than we can work on the next step.

Can mange be caused by a food allergy or does that just apply to general skin issues?

[Yogi]

Being that the mites are eating at the protein in the skin, some believe that it can be a cause but has not really been proven. The only real proof of mange is directly linked to the items noted which in each case clearly will start to deplete the immune system. This is why it is always advisable to address the mange first then work toward the immune system. Since in most cases once the mange is under control, the immune system is not longer having to fight off the infection which in turn causes it to rebuild and return to normal. The draw back here is we are dealing with a puppy who's immune system has not fully developed which is more reason to clear up the mange before going any further. The idea is, kill the mites. Another source for localized demodex is Goodwinol. I keep this around as it also helps with itchy skin issues but is an excellent shampoo for dogs suffering from demodex so long as it is localized.
It also helps with dogs suffering from food allergies to alleviate the itchy skin issues.

[mellyodieo]

I have looked for signs of stress....I dont see any....He is playful and loving but his hair is falling out...since I talked with you last the mange has gotten worse...The weather has warmed up and with it a majority of his hair on his back fell out....you can see the pink of his skin on his sides and back up to his head which is unaffected....The vet is not sure what happened...I personally think it is that he has never 100% gotten rid of the mites long enough to heal his immune system....I talked with the breeder and she said no other pups out of that litter have any problems and he was the last one left....the others left at 6 weeks I got him at 8 weeks....I am frusterated and not sure what to do now except have him dipped and start the process all over again....the thing that gives me pause is that all the chemicals are hard on him and it may lower his immune system further....thank you all for all of your advice it has been very helpful