i have two females who are not spayed yet. our border collie, Molly, ran off for 11 days and returned recently. but while she was gone our other dog, Annie, came into her first heat and claimed position as top dog. now that Molly is back, we are having a hard time keeping them from each other. we try to keep them separated as much as possible.

i talked with my trainer today and he said that i can either make it work between the two of them, or i can't. now since Annie is more than likely pregnant (she is being spayed very soon) he said that she has a potential of being aggressive because she wants to protect her babies. also, since Annie is part Pyrenees and the guard dog in her is very strong, my trainer said that she just might be protecting "her" yard and animals.

but in my opinion i think that since Annie has now established herself as top dog, she is going to make sure that Molly does not have any part of it. my trainer said that the females will not fight for dominance but for elimination.

the few things that he told me to do is to work Molly, because she has never had any real training, bring her to class and see if that makes a difference. also to make the two sit side by side (on leads of course) and correct them when they look at the other dog. he basically said to work them and make them do things together and pretty much ask them to get along.

so what are the chances that they will get along? do you have any suggestions on how to get them to not fight? if you think that i should sell one of them, which one do you think i should sell?

for me, i was thinking of selling Molly, she is the border collie, if she has training and is spayed, i think she would have a better chance of getting a home. my trainer also suggested that she be the one to go, only because people seem to really like these dogs. and where i live there are a lot of working farms and i am sure she would get a good home.

anyway, if you could give me your suggestions i would really appreciate it.

Once both dogs are spayed they should be there old selves again and be a working team. Unless you do not want to put out the money for two Vet bills? Do not know what you were thinking for letting it go this far ( being Fixed)and the resulting problems you now have. In my Household I AM THE TOP DOG and they know it, if this broke out here, it would cease immediately. Maybe you would be better off with one dog, if you are not in charge!? My best suggestion is not rush your decision, because both dogs have strong feelings for you and it is so easy for some people to just dump a dog off. I do not think you will get much money for one, but the dog is the one that will suffer if the new owner is not the right one! If you have a extra kennel to put one of the dogs in while you are a way would help until you take care of there medical situation! Hope I did not sound too sarcastic, but I only have the dogs best interest not the owner.

you don't say how long you've had them but I gather one longer than the other. letting them go & not having them spayed is just irresponsible IMO especially considering females fight more than males do. the one you think may be pregnant can't be very far so get her done right away

I guess from what you say neither have had any formal obedience classes which of course isn't helping.

you can google NILIF for help in becoming the alpha person & start using it right away

how this all goes is entirely up to you, altho it is true - not all dogs are going to get along but it doesn't sound like these guys have had a fair shake at it.

were they introduced properly in the beginning? that makes a big difference too.

are you willing to put an enormous amount of work into your dogs every day?

i agree with both of you that i should wait and see how things turn out.
let me give you a little background on my dogs though.

Molly, the three year old border collie, lived here first with our other two dogs who are both gone now. after the last one died we knew Molly couldn't handle living on her own. so we bought this pair of lab/Pyrenees dogs, brother and sister. when they came they were introduced properly and everyone got along fine. they had been getting along really well until Molly ran away two weeks ago. once she was gone that is when everything happened.

the two labs have had proper training, both went to class and each have their certificates. Molly on the other hand hasn't had proper training, and our trainer suggested we start working with her and bring her to obedience class.

all three dogs know that i am top dog, they listen to me, they respect me, and they obey me. but my problem is when Annie starts being aggressive towards Molly, she doesn't listen as well. she kind of zones in on Molly. my trainer suggested we train Annie to come to a whistle, like a lifeguard whistle. it is sharp and will take away her distraction from Molly and bring her to me.

Annie has about 4-5 more days left until we can get her spayed. our vet won't allow her to be spayed until two weeks after she had her shots. Molly on the other hand can be spayed right away and that is what we plan on doing. so with having them both spayed, you think they would go back to being friendly with each other? is there ever a chance that they might get along and then out of nowhere begin fighting like this again?

thank you for your advice, i will be sure to get them both spayed as soon as possible and let them figure it out a while longer.

Its too bad that Molly has to go first, she will be in a very weaken state, and in pain, and the other dog will not be very merciful, if the opportunity is there she will take advantage. I would suggest both dogs be done at the same time or otherwise have the aggressive dog done first.

Keep them separated!

I would crate & rotate the females at least until they are fully recovered from surgery & back to normal physically, then only limited access to each other for awhile.

there really is no way to predict how this will go

After spaying it just may get better, good luck!

we are separating them now and will continue to until things change. i am under so much stress right now, i love all of my dogs and i don't have the heart to sell either one of them, even if i know she will go to a great home and will be well taken care of. i just keep hoping that they will learn to settle this and that spaying will do amazing things.

today we worked with them. i had Annie and Molly sit about four feet from each other, my brother holding Annie and i holding Molly. we corrected them every time they looked at the other dog, by saying "no!" and giving them a quick tug on the leash. we also had one dog sit and have the other dog walk past, both of them did fine with this. we had them on leashes the entire time. they didn't once show aggression toward the other, but i am still not in a position where i can trust them.

i will keep you all updated and let you know when i have them spayed. if you have any other suggestions on how to "train" them to get along i would love to get some more ideas.

that stress will convey to the dogs & make things worse. think positive!

do things with them together - take walks, do fun things, make happy!

you really can't "train" emotion, that will have to come naturally & probably will in time. I think you are expecting too much too soon. RELAX

okay, since i last posted, things have been going quite smoothly. we have separated the dogs. we live on a farm with goats and cows and horses... and since Annie (the lab/Pyrenees) has the guard dog blood in her, we put her in the pen with the goats. she adapted quite well to it. her brother, Jack, goes in every morning with her to eat breakfast, while i do the chores in the barn. they play and run and have a great time. meanwhile, Molly (the border collie) runs along the fence line, as she has done ever since she came here. Annie is not let out and Molly is not let in. the two of them have not fought once through the fence. they will nose each other, walk along the fence line with each other, and not bear their teeth or growl. but i am still not confident enough with the dogs to let them be back together.

Molly has started dog training and is picking it up very fast (which does not surprise me in the least). Annie is recovering from being spayed and Molly will be spayed soon.

my fingers are still crossed and i pray that things work out. but you know, if they have to be permanently separated, then so be it. Annie is perfectly happy up with the goats. she gets plenty of attention and doesn't mind being up there. Molly is doing her job around the farm, but is the only place she is not allowed in is the goat pen. And Jack is the peace keeper and can go where he pleases.

[lil mutt]

for the mean time keep them separated from each other but as much as possible do fun activities with them.