Do you rate him as a dog trainer?

[puppylove2009]

I don't like him. (a lot of people say he's just in it for the dogs but he is sure making a lot of money by slapping his name on a lot of products)


Personally I prefer Victoria Stillwell (From Its Me or the Dog)

(Or the local trainer or behaviorist that isn't on TV) (You know someone real who you can interact with and work with the dogs problems on a case by case basis)

Apart from the obvious fact that he's in it for the money, I am actually quite interested in his methods.
It just all seems so 'common sense'.

Any trainer who's methods are prefaced by DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME has a problem. I have been horrified by many of his shows and cannot watch any more. The kicking and bullying he does is not a way to train. Every dog he traines looks TERRIFIED!!! He also proved that he is not able to handle training "common" dog problems like jumping up on people (something I think 75% of dog owners deal with)

I also like Victoria... her methods WORK and are much kinder.

[wishbone]

Who is that guy?

I personally see just fine on him but still not so impressive.

I was once impressed with Cesar, but since I discovered Victoria Stilwell, I became instantly disenchanted with Cesar, and will no longer watch his program. I am in total awe of Victoria now.

Case in point: My Annie, being a Springer Spaniel, literally starts "springing" when she knows I'm taking her for a walk. On Cesar's show, he taught an owner how to lead her dog to a designated leashing place, and to insist she sit calmly before receiving the leash. I paid real close attention, and used it. It worked a lot better than simply trying to leash her while she was springing up and down. But then I saw Victoria. She gets the dog into a sit/stay by the door BEFORE she even gets the leash out! And if the dog breaks her stay before the leash is on, Victoria puts the leash away and sits down! Wow! Guess what? It works on my Annie! But I don't have to sit down. I just say, "A-ah!," drop the leash & harness on the floor, turn around, and fold my arms. I stand there quietly, ignoring my dog. In a matter of seconds, I carefully glance over my shoulder to discover that she has quietly gone to sit down by the door again. That's when I turn around and reward her by putting on her harness and leash. Victoria is my hero!

A. He is NOT A DOG TRAINER. He is a DOG REHABILITATOR. He says so constantly.
B. He deals with dogs with serious behavioral problems. He is a professional who has years of experience dealing with such dogs and knows the risks and how to avoid them. Of course there is a disclaimer not to try it at home--the average dog owner shouldn't be trying to rehabilitate a dog with serious aggression issues and Cesar doesn't want to get sued when someone gets bitten trying to do something they shouldn't.
C. I like Cesar Milan and think that his techniques make allot of sense. He has saved a lot of dogs from euthanasia by what he does.
D. If he can teach American dog owners how to be Pack Leaders--good Pack Leaders--then American dogs will be a lot better off.

The comments about him making money surprise me. I thought people were allowed to make money. A worker is worth his hire. Ms. Stillwell charges for her work but no one criticizes her. Cesar has a skill that people are willing to pay for, that is not a crime nor does it cheapen his advise. He is certainly not the only one out there who puts their name of products to sell.

I am sure Victorial Stilwell gets big bucks for her sessions!

She deals with violently aggressive dogs as well, some worse then Cesar Milan and get amazing results without the use of violence or intimidation!
Many trainers in my area will not even allow his name or methods to be mentioned in their classes as they know the truth about his forceful training (sorry rehabilitation) methods. I have seen him kick dogs so they yelp, lift a dog off the ground by it's collar for about 7 seconds! (I was shocked the dog was alright), push a dachshund off a sofa with force (something that could have caused the dog to become paralized, anybody who knows about the
breed will tell you you must be very carefull if them getting on/off high placces due to their long backs) and "alpha-roll" more dogs than I can count!

I will not watch his show again!

Here is some info I found about the alpha roll

Dogs - Alpha Rolling

The Alpha Roll, once hailed as the premier way to prove to your dog who's "Alpha" (Boss) in the family, has been replaced by a gentler, more successful way of training. Now the Alpha Roll, besides being obsolete, has proven to be detrimental to the health and mental well-being of your dog, as well as downright dangerous to the "Roller".

What is an Alpha Roll?

An Alpha Roll is the act of flipping your dog onto his back, and holding his throat. Supposedly this will teach him that YOU are Alpha, and he will respect you for this.
Wrong.
"The only reason that a dog will FORCEFULLY flip another dog over on its back is to kill the animal. By forcing an animal to submit in that way you are literally putting the fear of death into them, they think you are trying to kill them. It is not surprising that a lot of people get bit trying to do the alpha roll - the dog believes that the human is trying to kill them so they try and defend themselves. Doing this behavior to an already dominant animal can increase the likelihood of aggression. Doing this to an already submissive animal will increase the fear in that animal - leading to submissive urination and possible fear biting. Hands should never, ever be used to hurt an animal - an alpha roll does just that and its efficacy at asserting dominance is next to zero."

Something else to consider: Think about how close your face is going to be from those teeth when you alpha roll a big dog. Not very far away. It's a dangerous position to put yourself into, and a frightening position for any

Oh, if you think Victoria isn't making money off her session, you really are naive. Any trainer worth their salt is worth their pay. Period.

Trainers disagree on best methods. That's fine. Find one you agree with. Tell me, can you keep 40 dogs together in one pack and walk them together? Can you manage a large pack with rotties, GSDs, and pitts mixed? You do it and then lets hear from you.

Cesar is not kicking the dogs. He is giving a tap with his foot. If you listened to his shows or read his books, you would know this. My dog's obedience trainer as suggested the same thing when my dog starts to fixate on other dogs (except Tanner is too short to tap him with my foot Cesar style...I only end up tapping air).

As to the dog he lifted by the collar -- I'd like to see you use a treat to get that dog away from the dog it wanted to kill. That dog had one thing on it's mind--kill the other dog. No treat in the world would have done a thing. When you are dealing with an aggressive dog that is red zoning you have to be prepared to do what is necessary. That dog was not injured and thanks to Cesar, neither was the other dog or humans.

The first thing I was was I am sure she gets big bucks (that means a LOT OF MONEY) for her sessions. I am sure she gets paid hundreds if not thousands!

I have worked doggie daycare, a facility that took about 75 dog a day (in ONE ROOM) and Yes, I was able to control all of them with no fights, let them all outside together with no fights and feed them all with no problems. This daycare was full of pitts, GSDs, rotties, mastiffs and other powerful breeds. I have also rehabilitated "red zone" aggressive dogs using positive reimforcement and still get updates from owners on how well their dogs are doing after months/years since our last session.

This forum is a place for people to express their opinions and that is all I was doing. People are welcome to use who ever/what ever they want to train their dogs. I will do it my way - you do it yours, lets just agree to disagree

As I said in my post, find who works for you and go with it. My daddy used to say that opinions are like....ummm...backsides...everyone has one. We all love dogs and are passionate about them so of course we are going to feel passionately about their care and training. I wish more people did! :-D

I like Victoria Stillwell...although I was terribly disappointed in her book "It's me or the dog". Perhaps it was too basic for me? I don't know...it just didn't do it for me. I like to learn from a variety of modalities and take what works and leave the rest. I've read the Monks of New Skete as well as Cesar and Stillwell and others. Always more to learn....opinions to gather...

(Anyone what to buy Victoria's book off me let me know....still in like new condition.)

I love that Your dad seems like a cool guy!

ALWAYS more to learn. Even after almost 13 years a a trainer I still take every class, read every book and talk to everyone I can.

He was pretty cool. He actually got me started in dog training...not professionally...when I was in the third grade he got a GSD. He got a book on obedience training (this was back in the days of training collars and "punitive methods") and started training the dog. I helped him work on the stays and comes. Other than Dad, I was the only one that dog would take commands from...and she was as big as I was! She would totally ignore my mother and brother. We never needed more than a mild correction with her, thankfully.

As an adult, as I acquired dogs I would seek training advise to deal with the "issues" they came with (I adopt, I don't purchase) and so I'm a mixed bag of techniques. My cattle dog (now at Rainbow Bridge) was my biggest challenge to date. She had MAJOR shyness/fear issues. She preferred to "flight" rather than "fight" but I'd always tell people who asked, "yes, she might bite you if you don't follow my instructions". Long before Cesar, I was telling people "No touch, No talk, No eye contact"--ignore her. And, no, I NEVER flooded her...it was always a praise oriented step-by-step desensitization process. Would flooding have gotten her over her fears quicker? I don't know. I do know I wasn't willing to risk damaging the trust she had in me to try. Often, Sabastian was the one who could convince her that something was safe--he went first and she followed and I praised the h@%* out of both of them. BUT, Libby also had a few adolescent dominance issues and I did alpha roll her (per Monks instructions) once or twice. The Monks also taught another method of establishing dominance with a dog: put one hand on the dog's chest, the other under their chin while kneeling behind them (the dog is in a sit) and hold the head still. I like it better than the alpha roll.

Cesar does something else I started doing before I watched him: making the dog wait before feeding. I learned about this through NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free). My dogs have to sit and wait until I give the "okay eat" command.

Anyway, I don't think Cesar is as bad as some people think he is. But, everyone has their preferred methods.

I just can't get the hang of clickers. I "click" with the word "yes" and I'm working on teaching the "touch" command like Victoria does.

[puppylove2009]

Regarding Victoria Stillwell

I'm sure she does get the big bucks but she hasn't slapped her name on a bunch of products (Yet.....I do say yet...who knows what the future brings)

But I've used Victorias techniques and they work. If you apply them and stick with them (Like any training)

Ceasars techniques are rough and I'm a little concerned about the do not try this at home thing to.

I mean that is not good training. From what I understand he scares a dog into submission.

But I like Victorias approach that is all

I can't believe I saw this thread. Just last month, I would say, my friend and I were discussing training and I said that you had to be the boss of your dog, the leader or he'll walk all over you and he said that's bullhockey and it's a myth. Then he proceeds to say that I'm this guy's follower when I'm not and I said that I have learned from watching "It's Me or the Dog" and will use Victoria's methods when I get a dog.

No go, still claiming that submission is wrong and thinks I would beat a dog into submission when all I meant was that the dog should be put in his place, first it's family, then animals.

Anyway he kept siting Cesar Millan and I saw his show "The Dog Whisperer" and as far as I can see, he seems okay. But I haven't seen all of his shows, I definitely like Victoria Stilwell's methods.

Sorry for the rant above, but it just reminded me of it!

I like Cesar, and believe that his methods are highly intuitive and beneficial. I watch him all the time.

He is a little cocky, though. d:

[Piti Longstalking]

This should keep people entertained for a while on this topic.

Cesar Millan - The Dog Whisperer: Critics Answers

Dog Whisperer, Dog Psychology and Cesar Millan

http://www.4pawsu.com/dominancestatement.pdf

I think he is brilliant, and i follow pretty much all his methods with excellent results.

I'm hoping to get to his Australian tour

Cesar is good, as I can see all of his dogs are submitting to him and very obedient, I wonder what ways he does to terrified all those dogs

I can't see anything fun to watch if I will see those poor little things being forced to do things that they should not be doing, things like "don't do this at home" is a disturbing matter..

Originally Posted by Twinkle

Do you rate him as a dog trainer?

i think his way of training dogs is the best i have 3 dogue de bordeux and use his tips and my girls are fantastic they do everything i ask them ive never had any problems with them ever, they are very well behaved,