[Lunareclipse]

Still a mutt. We have an Australian Shepherd/Border Collie. He's a mutt. We also have AKC purebred saint bernards. I have no problem calling my Aussie mix a mutt because that's what he is. And since when does the AKC register humans?

[Jesterss]

I believe the purpose of Animal Lover's post was the fact that he/she takes the term mutt in a derogatory manner. Whereas for you, you don't see anything wrong with calling a "mix breed" or "All-American dog" a "Mutt"... Some take it offensive... And the main point was that it doesn't matter that your dog isn't considered a pure breed by AKC standards, because even the Husky wasn't recognized by the AKC until 1990, and the Akita not until like 2004 or something along those lines (I probably don't have the correct years there). Also, there is even a difference between the American Akita and Akita Inu. So who's right? Should American Akita's not be breed? Again, I reiterate my position that I think the Huskita would be a wonderful dog. And I like hearing the stories of those who do have Huskitas... Thank you to those who have shared your stories on it, good stuff..

[cigwyllt]

I fail to see how/why anyone should be offended by the word "mutt" or "mongrel". If your dog is not a pure bred dog, ie if both parents are not of the same breed then he or she is a cross breed. The dictionary definition of mutt and mongrel are the same. Your dog's parents may be supreme champions but if they are not of the same breed then your dog is a mongrel.

People don't like it but it is true. Twenty years ago people would give away the offspring of an accidental mating. Now they give them stupid names and charge a fortune for them.

I have nothing against mongrels - I have a rescue dog that has no definitive breed apparent in her make up at all (although people always seem to spot "their" breed in her! - I have been told that she is Staffie, collie, GSD and beagle!) and I have a Jack Russell x Patterdale. They are both beautiful and unique and I am not ashamed to tell anyone that they are mongrels. I also have a Jack Russell that I chose because he came from identifiable Jack Russell dogs through several generations.

They are all wonderful and really don't care what we call them. Let's not let PC sensibilities cause us to shrink from the truth about these dogs. They are bred not for the benefit of the bloodlines of the breed but arise either because of greed on the part of the so called breeders or accidental matings.

Let's call a mutt a mutt and move on!

[Jesterss]

other than being registered by AKC and allowed to participate in their shows, what can your pure bred breed do any better than a mutt?... I say that in not arguing the MUTT name but the fact that you say people who breed these dogs are doing it out of greed?. What makes their search for profit on a mixed breed any worse than those who profit on the pure breeds?... NOTHING... so yes, a mutt may not receive a known desirable outcome in its physical or mental desire of the breeder, but color aside, do all pure breeds even develop the same mental capacities/characteristics?.. NOPE!!..

So lets move on with the greed comments.... anyone selling ANY dog is out to make money.. purebred or mutt.. all the same.. just because it doesn't live up to your standard or the AKC's.. doesn't disqualify it from having the same intentions..

so lets move on with greed and once again, focus on the fact that it's BYB's of any dog type, purebred or mutt, is what should aggravate us, not those making cross breeds because they find something desirable in them..

[Lunareclipse]

A responsible breeder NEVER profits from breeding quality pets and show dogs. I said I have AKC registered saint bernards. I also never plan on breeding them because they are not outstanding specimens of their breed, so I had them fixed. Just because they have papers doesn't mean that I ever had any intent on breeding them. It just means that I wanted to buy from responsible breeders that health test theirs saint bernards and make sure that nothing but the healthiest dogs are bred. The ones that breed for profit shouldn't be breeding. What most people do not understand is that just because some people own purebred dogs with papers, having papers doesn't mean they are healthy and they still shouldn't be bred without the proper tests.

[Jesterss]

I get your point that deep down you believe that a reputable breeder puts so much into breeding quality dogs that the money earned only breaks even with the costs of everything else but that's not true.

Break down the actual costs and you'll know that the reputable breeders are making a good chunk of change.. I would be willing to bet that you spent $500 or more for each of your Saint Bernards...

[Lunareclipse]

You obviously don't have any idea what a reputable breeder does to ensure the health quality on their dogs. Buster's breeder spent $1200 on OFA testing for hips and joints. She spent $900 on the ultrasound to see how many puppies there were so if the proper number of puppies isn't born, then she can take the dam to the vet and have the rest surgically removed. She made sure there was $2000 saved back in case the dam had complications and needed a c-section. It is not taking 2 dogs and throwing them in the backyard and in a few weeks you have puppies. We did have another saint bernard. She died of epilepsy. Her breeder should have been fined and jailed for animal cruelty. With proper testing things like that can be avoided.

[Jesterss]

Oh cmon now, now you're throwing completely ridiculous numbers out there.. Hip tests can cost from $200 to $300, not thousands. Ultrasounds for puppies cost like $60. I don't know what kind of vet's you're going to but they're either ripping you off or something.

You never answered how much you paid for your Saint Bernards either..

[Lunareclipse]

It cost $900 for the hip ex-rays for my female. Not 200. It cost a couple hundred for some expert to look at the ex-rays and score the hips. I think you are just being a argumentative troll that doesn't care that there is enough mutts in shelters and more shouldn't be bred by people who care less about the health of the dogs they were breeding.

[cigwyllt]

I get your point that deep down you believe that a reputable breeder puts so much into breeding quality dogs that the money earned only breaks even with the costs of everything else but that's not true.

I am very surprised to read that. I have friends who breed and their litters are planned with military precision - even to the point where they will put their plans on hold because they do not have sufficient money in their budget to cover the expenses involved.

These are some of the expenses involved for one litter: fuel costs to take the bitch to the stud, stud fees, a further trip to collect her, regular worming/vaccination routines for the mother and the rest of the family pets to ensure the pups are safe, top quality food for the mum, ultrasound scans, vet trips to ensure she is healthy throughout, extra heating for the birthing box, extra laundry, worming for the puppies and dam, food for the pups. Add to that the need for a contingency fund to cover any need for additional treatment for the pups or the mother - caesarian, infections, tearing - birth is far from risk free.

So you want to cover your outgoings but what about the work involved - the hours of time a good breeder puts in to the pups is astonishing. The breeders I know are committed 100% to the safety and well being of their bitches - camping out in the room with the mum gives birth. I know one lady who moves onto her sofa a few days before the mum goes into labour and stays there for 8 weeks so that she is on hand day and night to check on them and ensure all is well.

So you are paying for a lot when you buy a pup - the expenses, the work involved in bringing them up from conception to fully weaned, and a very, very small part of the price is profit - usually 10%

Ethical breeders do this because they want to keep good bloodlines going, they want to keep outstanding examples of the breed in the gene pool and they want to share their love of the breed with others who appreciate it as well.

So why do people produce cross breeds? Clearly they have none of the motivation that drives the ethical breeder. They may claim to be trying to balance out different traits in two breeds but to what end? Take the labradoodle for instance - these dogs do not breed true and even first generations do not produce the poodle coated lab that people expect. Our local rescue frequently rehomes labradoodle pups that do not look the way people want them. Some of them look whiskery, others are lab crosses with no poodle features at all. So if the pups can't be homed what is the motivation for breeding them?

[Jesterss]

No I completely agree with you both on reputable breeders and the work they put in is definitely a lot more than your typical BYB, and I've said the whole time that I think it's BYB's that are causing the issues, not the fact that there are mix breeds.. My point was just that I think a mix breed serves just as good a purpose.. Now statistically the mix breeders vs the pure breed breeders your argument is valid, the pure bred breeders on average are more likely to become a reputable breeder and put more care into it, but I do believe there are some reputable cross breeders, and the entire idea shouldn't just be shot down.. go into any animal shelter and I guarantee you see a pure bred Pit Bull in there if not a few (our local one has about 20), that doesn't make be believe Pit Bulls should stop being bred though... and to answer your question, I think those cross breed breeders who breed those pups should take the responsibility and take all their pups back that don't make the cut.. does that happen? maybe some, but definitely not enough.. responsible just means doing the right things when creating puppies, pure breed or cross, I think either can do the right thing..

and I'm really not trying to be argumentative lunar, I'm just trying to get to the actual numbers behind it..

I still think your $900 is high (not that I don't believe you may have spent that), but it is extremely high for a hip check.. you must live in a large urbanized city? That's the only way I could see your vet getting away with that price or getting enough frequent customers..

[lange]

There are good points all across the board. I'm also of the opinion that a mix is a mutt but I don't see anything downgrading in the term. I have a mix and don't care if someone calls him a mutt. It literally is nothing to me. I also don't really care about the AKC or any such organizations as I believe they are at times full of themselves. My problems with mutts (AND some full breeds) is that they are bred out of profit only, with no concern over the health or temperament of the dogs. And with no guarantees on the future health or rehoming of the dog SHOULD the owner ever come to the point of not wanting it any longer.

If a dog is breed it should only be bred by someone who actually wants to IMPROVE the dog. Reality is that improving dogs is what creates new breeds. The problem is people say they want to improve these dogs and make mix's without putting the true effort in; ie: time and $$$$!. I've never once seen a mix (designer) breeder who health tested their dogs AND did the foot work in explained how they have spent years researching each breed. What the have done with each of their breeds having hands on experience. No how's and WHY's of why they are changing a dog. They do not care about the dogs, they care about the profit and then spit out dogs only to line their wallets.

Now, as far as behavior, personality, cons, pro's, (as each dog breed has cons & pros), exercise, energy levels, ingrained demands, training, ect, ect...when you BUY a mixed puppy you do not know which dog you are getting. On the one hand you can have a high energy Husky who's needs & personality are extremely different than that of an Akita. What happens is that many people do not naturally mesh well with one or the other. You (Jesterrs) may personally be a versatile person who can acomodate the Akita & Husky well, both physically and mentally, but most people will end up meshing better with personality A verses personality B since Husky;s & Akita's ARE VERY different. This IS reality and this is why SOOOO many people have behavioral problems with their dogs. This is why Cesar Millan (which I personally like) and other such dog behaviorists are booming right now. People need help because they are NOT choosing the breeds that BEST compliment their own personalities and lifestyles.

I Know I would be one of those people complaining & having a heck of a time had I ever owned a Husky. Yet, I & my Akita flourish perfectly. One of my personal issues with mixes is that some people will not know before hand what in the world their dog will be like in buying a mix breed. If they themselves actually researched both breeds thoroughly and said, "Hey, I can do well with either." Then I would say, "Yay!" But this isn't reality. So SOMEONE, breeder or owner, needs to do the research!

If you're open to being able to handle ANY sort of dog, then cool. But IMO most people do not know enough to be able to handle any situation. And many people do not take the time to change their life for a dog yet expect the dog to change for them, ever visit a pound? Most dogs are there because of behavioral issues the owners didn't know how to or WANT to deal with.

I find a lot of problems with designer breeding and still believe MOST of the buyers buy for looks. If looks are what's the most important, then why not go adopt a dog in need who will have the look someone is wanting. A bonus is that most are older dogs and the adopting organization will be able to tell you WHAT the personality, needs & issues of the mix is! That is way more information then you will get from a byb who does no real footwork


Sorry... I don't want anyone feeling I'm just targeting them but my real problem is the people who breed that are uneducated & uncommitted. I don't find mutts themselves a bad thing but I do find the above points I made to be the down fall for all involved.

[reeskujo]

Ummm,Akita's were admitted to the AKC in 1972 and Huskies in 1930.

[Jesterss]

Originally Posted by reeskujo

Ummm,Akita's were admitted to the AKC in 1972 and Huskies in 1930.

Sorry you're right, I read the approved dates not the accepted dates.. Stupid me..

Anyway.. The bigger point was that the Akita took longer to be recognized.. I even admitted the dates were probably wrong and not of my concern... wasn't the point being made... thanks for finding the dates though

@Lange, I definitely agree, the husky and akita are quite different in personality, and I definitely wouldn't suggest either to a first time dog owner, mainly because of the hyperness of a husky and the stubbornness of both.. and they both react very differently to punishments.. so yes, it is very important to understand what you are getting in a dog and making that choice on what breed would best fit your personality.. no offense taken, I think you made some great points..

[Docapples]

This has been a most interesting discussion for me as I'm going to look at a Huskita puppy tonight. My 14 year old husky died last week and my 6 year old is grieving. I've been unable to find a husky nearby and this little pup caught my attention. I'm hoping she's what we need. I've raised huskies (rescue and purchased) for over 42 years and adore the breed. I've had some problem children and some not...a lot depends on the love and time you spend with them.

[lange]

Originally Posted by Docapples

This has been a most interesting discussion for me as I'm going to look at a Huskita puppy tonight. My 14 year old husky died last week and my 6 year old is grieving. I've been unable to find a husky nearby and this little pup caught my attention. I'm hoping she's what we need. I've raised huskies (rescue and purchased) for over 42 years and adore the breed. I've had some problem children and some not...a lot depends on the love and time you spend with them.

But what about Akitas? Are you familiar with the breed at all?

I'm sorry for you loss as well. It must be hard with your 6yo mourning his dog.

[Jesterss]

Originally Posted by Docapples

This has been a most interesting discussion for me as I'm going to look at a Huskita puppy tonight. My 14 year old husky died last week and my 6 year old is grieving. I've been unable to find a husky nearby and this little pup caught my attention. I'm hoping she's what we need. I've raised huskies (rescue and purchased) for over 42 years and adore the breed. I've had some problem children and some not...a lot depends on the love and time you spend with them.

Little Update: I own a Husky and an Akita, my wife let the two out while the female was in heat, long story short she became pregnant, we had 8 huskita puppies (couldn't keep any ourselves), so we gave some away and sold some to others (pretty cheap, just wanted to make sure they were serious about wanting a dog), and I can tell you this, everyone who has one has absolutely loved them. The one downside is that both of these breeds, especially the husky, are pretty active dogs, so they are hyper as puppies, but they train very easily from what everyone has told me, my brother kept one of our puppies and he says its the smartest dog he's ever had. I think they make great dogs. So far it appears that the personality traits tend to be more husky and the physical presence more akita. Hard to predict though. It was a good mix, but we had our Akita fixed so it won't happen again. But I really enjoyed raising the pups. Everyone could tell we worked with them because they only took 2-3 days to potty train and knew what "no" meant immediately. Best of luck to you.

Docapples,

If you're worried about an Akita, don't be. They are great dogs. You are an experienced owner (especially with that much experience with huskies), so I don't see where you would have any problem with a purebred Akita, let alone one mixed with husky. The only difference is training the two breeds. Akitas tend to be more methodical and slow to react, whereas Huskies are quick witted and do what they think you want quick. Akitas take a much slower approach and do well by watching (they're pretty smart though). The breeds do well playing together too. Obviously the Akita's more dominant nature will put he/she in the alpha role with your other dog, but I don't see that being an issue since your huskita would be a puppy especially.