[lange]

Woolly monster, Kuma, is going bald around her mouth. It's thought she has allergies?.. Mange wasn't expected. Still, Kuma doesn't sit still for long & the vet couldn't get a great skin scrape. Nothing was found on the one she managed.

I DID change food recently but it was only the type I changed; I went from Chicken Soup's Adult Big Breed to simply Adult. I may just try a different brand all together, I'm still contemplating. She LOOKS miserable although she is not acting too 'off' right now.

[CorkyMax]

Poor Kuma!
I didn't check on the sites this 'wording' I put in my browser brought up--a lot there to click on---Will let you check them out--may give you some ideas:dog losing fur around mouth area

[reeskujo]

Lange there's a lot of ways to go when it comes to Akita's and skin conditions. The first thing I would do his have her thyroid level tested. They are very prone especially if it's in the bloodline,to have thyroid issues that cause skin conditions. At her age it should be at the upper level of normal.

They also tend to be a very highly allergic breed.From inhalations to food. Check Kuma's dog food for any corn or wheat. Akita's tend to be very allergic to both.They should always be fed grain free food. If it has either I would start with swtitching her food to a brand that doesn't have either and I would get her thyroid checked as soon as you can. Do you know if the breeder has tested Kuma's parents for thyroid and if so what the results are? When their thyroid levels are off you can also see a change in their personalities and behaviors as well. Keep me updated please!

[cigwyllt]

That looks nasty. Hope you can get to the bottom of it before it gets any worse. My parents' dog is in a dreadful state - his muzzle, eyes, ears and feet - again the vet can find no reason for it and they can't afford the allergy testing.

[lange]

Thanks C/M. I've searched too. It all seemed to point to demodex mange or allergies. I'm still wondering if it might be Demodex mange. But the coincidence of changing foods is either a big coincidence or the reason. Still weird because I compared the listed foods and they are the same. The only other thing that happened was I had taken her to the groomers at the same time.

Originally Posted by reeskujo

Lange there's a lot of ways to go when it comes to Akita's and skin conditions. The first thing I would do his have her thyroid level tested. They are very prone especially if it's in the bloodline,to have thyroid issues that cause skin conditions. At her age it should be at the upper level of normal.

They also tend to be a very highly allergic breed.From inhalations to food. Check Kuma's dog food for any corn or wheat. Akita's tend to be very allergic to both.They should always be fed grain free food. If it has either I would start with swtitching her food to a brand that doesn't have either and I would get her thyroid checked as soon as you can. Do you know if the breeder has tested Kuma's parents for thyroid and if so what the results are? When their thyroid levels are off you can also see a change in their personalities and behaviors as well. Keep me updated please!

No parents thyroid testing done. I'm going to give her a week, if the fur keeps falling I'm going back to have her tested for thyroid & allergies. She is acting a little off from her normal self.

I will take that advice & just go ahead & switch the food. You know, you have me thinking..I should just have her thyroid tested, even if she gets better. If it's at that normal, upper level it'll come in handy for reference in the future. You do that every year as well, right? SHould the level change depending on age? Or are there any other factors I should take into account, Ree?

Thanks Cig. I'm surprised at how FAST it developed. I'm sorry they can't find answers for you parents dog. It sucks not knowing the cause. it feels you're only THAT much further from the real cure.

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by lange

Thanks C/M. I've searched too. It all seemed to point to demodex mange or allergies. I'm still wondering if it might be Demodex mange. But the coincidence of changing foods is either a big coincidence or the reason. Still weird because I compared the listed foods and they are the same. The only other thing that happened was I had taken her to the groomers at the same time.



No parents thyroid testing done. I'm going to give her a week, if the fur keeps falling I'm going back to have her tested for thyroid & allergies. She is acting a little off from her normal self.

I will take that advice & just go ahead & switch the food. You know, you have me thinking..I should just have her thyroid tested, even if she gets better. If it's at that normal, upper level it'll come in handy for reference in the future. You do that every year as well, right? SHould the level change depending on age? Or are there any other factors I should take into account, Ree?

Thanks Cig. I'm surprised at how FAST it developed. I'm sorry they can't find answers for you parents dog. It sucks not knowing the cause. it feels you're only THAT much further from the real cure.

The upper part of the normal range is just a reference point. Really as long as it's in the normal range you don't have to worry. When I was breeding I had all of my parents tested before breeding them. It's not something you need to do every year unless you see something going on that can be caused by a thyroid issue. Both of Seigi's parents and grand and great grandparents on both sides tested normal so I'll do a baseline on him this summer but won't do it again unless I feel the need. Sine her parents weren't tested which honestly they should've been since it's a big issue with the breed then I would do like you said and get hers checked just so you have a baseline. However even if it's normal since she is still a baby I would check her again around the age of 2yr.s old. Some of the skin conditions in Akita's are also caused by auto-immune diseases that affect the thyroid so that's why it's so important to check especially since this issue seems to be on the rise with the breed.

As for changing food you want something that has no corn,wheat or the glutens and preferably no soy. Unfortunetly one of the down falls of owning Akita's is their potential for allergies. They can also be very sensitive to medications. My poor Kujo had allergies like crazy.Poor thing was always sneezing and trying to itch his nose. I gave him Benedryl for them and the dose is 1mg per lb of body weight. That would've meant over 100mg's for him. I always start out at the lowest dose I can so I started him at 25mg which is one adult Benedryl and it knocked him out for hours!

Is Kuma just losing her hair or is she developing any swelling or sores. Is she scratching at it? Have you noticed her scratching a lot or her hair falling out anywhere else?

[puppypaige]

I'm sorry to hear about your dog. My parent's dog had an experience where their fur began falling out. It was the oddest thing. It could have been allergies. I'm not sure. They couldn't afford the testing. I hope you are able to get to the bottom of this.

Good luck!

[lange]

Originally Posted by reeskujo

The upper part of the normal range is just a reference point. Really as long as it's in the normal range you don't have to worry. When I was breeding I had all of my parents tested before breeding them. It's not something you need to do every year unless you see something going on that can be caused by a thyroid issue. Both of Seigi's parents and grand and great grandparents on both sides tested normal so I'll do a baseline on him this summer but won't do it again unless I feel the need. Sine her parents weren't tested which honestly they should've been since it's a big issue with the breed then I would do like you said and get hers checked just so you have a baseline. However even if it's normal since she is still a baby I would check her again around the age of 2yr.s old. Some of the skin conditions in Akita's are also caused by auto-immune diseases that affect the thyroid so that's why it's so important to check especially since this issue seems to be on the rise with the breed.

As for changing food you want something that has no corn,wheat or the glutens and preferably no soy. Unfortunetly one of the down falls of owning Akita's is their potential for allergies. They can also be very sensitive to medications. My poor Kujo had allergies like crazy.Poor thing was always sneezing and trying to itch his nose. I gave him Benedryl for them and the dose is 1mg per lb of body weight. That would've meant over 100mg's for him. I always start out at the lowest dose I can so I started him at 25mg which is one adult Benedryl and it knocked him out for hours!

Is Kuma just losing her hair or is she developing any swelling or sores. Is she scratching at it? Have you noticed her scratching a lot or her hair falling out anywhere else?

You make perfect sense in regards to the thyroid advice. I do hope this isn't the cause but it's still a reality check for me & something I need to be proactive with. As always I appreciate all the help & info you've always shared with me on the breed. It's all invaluable for me.

Right now she is only losing her hair in that area. I've looked her over & can't find anything anywhere else. No sores yet. Once in awhile she paws at herself for a second but no harm done. She does lick across her mouth more often but again, not extreme.

I'm going to go out & see if I can find Taste of The Wild (corn/wheat/soy free) locally. Otherwise I'm going with Blue Buffalo. I'm thinking it might be the wheat/gluten. The new formula may have a bigger amount..even if the same ingredients. That just makes the most sense. I'll let you know how she progresses.

Hi, welcome to the forum & thanks for the well wishes, Pagie!

[reeskujo]

You know I'm always hear to answer any questions or offer advice. Both of those foods are good choices. Be sure to let me know how everything is working out. You know you can always catch me on FB to...BTW, Seigi is going to be a yr.old on the 1st. 4 more days,I can't believe it!

[lange]

Thank you Ree I'll definitely do that.

Really, a year tomorrow?? Wow that came with the quickness! I hope that means we get 1 year photo updates in a birthday party hat.

[TaraAndTimber]

Lange: I've been researching dog's nutritional requirements, and how the diets we feed them may be limited in getting them all the trace minerals etc that they require. If you have a few minutes, perhaps you would research unpasteurized apple cider vinegar. Look it up in both human and dog foods, especially for Luna looking at the dogs' skin & coat & allergies as effected.

It may bring her immediate relief topically, while you continue to figure out what's going on internally to effect her skin & coat like that. If you're interested, I've compiled a short list of things we've been adding to our diets here to make certain they get everything they need.

Best of luck - I KNOW it's breaking your heart!
Nancy

[CorkyMax]

Here is a link to a thread I did in here on vinegar a while back:What About Vinegar!!

Also see my post in this thread--3 links to check on in there: Exzema on nose? What could Timmy have?

I was wondering about the kind of bowls you are using--Stainless steel (from the US) is best but don't trust from other countries because of possible zinc--which is poisonous!

Another thread in here may be helpful to: Itchy dog

[TaraAndTimber]

Lange:

I apologize for the typo on your puppies name!!!!! I'm new at this computer forum, and kept re-reading to make sure I wasn't over-stepping my bounds, and blew it on her name!!! I'm sorry.

How's Kuma doing??

[lange]

Reading those links really gets you on the band wagon! I didn't know of all the positive effects applecider vinegar carries. If it can help Kuma feel more comfortable it's worth trying. I can see both our dogs benefiting from it, and possibly the hubby with his dry scalp. Ty to you both.

C/M, stainless for water & plastic for food. She has that odd shaped, plastic bowl that is supposed to help slow down fast eaters. I remember Cig mentioning to someone they could place big rocks in food bowls to slow down speedy eaters. (will try it!)
I think the plastic bowl is another def 'worth looking at' culprit. Man, I am just going culprit crazy lately. Even my son started w/an allergic reaction (totally non related) but I think I've been getting paranoid. :roll: ANYWAY, your thoughts are rubbing off on me..I'm going to buy another stainless bowl to replace it. If nothing else, it will look nicer!

Originally Posted by TaraAndTimber

Lange:

I apologize for the typo on your puppies name!!!!! I'm new at this computer forum, and kept re-reading to make sure I wasn't over-stepping my bounds, and blew it on her name!!! I'm sorry.

How's Kuma doing??

lol Don't worry, Nancy. It's hard remembering names when you're new to a forum...there's a lot of info to take in in such a small amount of time. Kuma's doing pretty good right now. It doesn't look like she's lost any more fur. Maybe it's wishful thinking but she seems more herself. She's also on medication so right now I'm not sure if the end of the hair loss is temporary because of the meds, switching foods, or something else all together. I'll have to keep waiting & seeing.

[Deafdogsrule]

I must tell you, it really does not look like demodex mange. I work with a rescue that works off of First Nations Reserves, and almost every second puppy has Demodex, or Scarcoptic. It will mostly affect around the eyes, side of face and belly first... I've never seen a case of DM start around the nose like that.

As to Grain-free foods, My dogs are on Acana Pacifica. I have 3 dogs with allergies, one to chicken, one to all proteins but fish, and I have NO idea what is causing Mouse's skin issues, I think it's environmental.

Consider putting her on a single protein food first, excluding chicken, pork and beef (which are the most common protein allergies). A unique protein like duck, bison, fish, venison is best. Dont use any treats with protein other than the protein you're feeding already (I use only vegitarian or fish treats, including fresh/frozen fruits and veggies)

My sister has a Westie and they are so extremely prone to allergies that she started her off right away on Acana Pacifica. no grains in her diet either.

[lange]

Thanks Sara. The vet would agree with you...spoke similarly on the mange. What were your dogs symptoms w/their food allergies? If they lost fur, do you remember how long it was before it started to grow back?

I switched her to Blue Buffalo's Basic/Salmon. No wheat, corn, soy, egg, or dairy. It's not high in protein either which is important to me. If she improves in the next couple months I'm going to do the slow trial of introducing more foods sometime in May.

One more question, is there any sort of bone you would recommend? I think I know the answer to that but I guess I'm hoping to hear what I want to hear.

[Deafdogsrule]

My dogs get elk antler bones, and nylabones.

Scout didn't lose fur, but when I adopted her she was on chicken based food, her coat was hard, almost wire-haired terrier like, and she had loose, or soft stools for months after I adopted her. I just thought that was the way she is, but I had to buy salmon and potato food as they were out of the regular Acana, and low and behold, her stools improved and her coat came in soft and thick!

Mouse gets some fur loss (around her head and shoulders, chest and sides) and hives once in awhile, I cannot figure out what it is, not food, I think, but environmental (grass possible, or sun) Oliver just gets explosive diarrhea every time he gets a protein that isn't fish, so possible a sensitive digestive system rather than allergies.

[lange]

Good ideas! I forgot about the elk antlers too. We've never used nylabones now would be a great time to try them out.
I keep reading that allergies in dogs are on the rise. I'm glad you were able to figure out their issues. But poor Mouse. Either of the allergies you suspect must be so difficult to manage.

[lange]

Originally Posted by reeskujo

Is Kuma just losing her hair or is she developing any swelling or sores. Is she scratching at it? Have you noticed her scratching a lot or her hair falling out anywhere else?

Aghh Ree help!!! Kuma was doing better like I had mentioned to you. Yesterday we noticed swelling on her lip! Remember her scratching? Well I found a bald spot behind her armpit when I looked her over. I was hoping the scratching was from a possible coat blow like we hoped but it's obviously something else. Again, so fast it developed! I'm going to get her thyroid tested. Is there anything else you can think of that I can request the vet to check??

and she was doing really well.. She had grown back most of the fur she had originally lost. Poor baby..

[Deafdogsrule]

OH NO!!! poor baby! I have figured out what Mouse is allergic to... metal! Her neck got so bad that I tried taking her collar off permanently, and As it was soooo cold for so long, she didn't go outside for more than a min, and sh wouldn't go anywhere when she went out to pee, cuz she'd freeze in that min, so she had no metal touching her for approx a month... low and behold, Mouse has a full coat, no red spots, no hives, and her bald patches are gone...

Thyroid testing is good, but you may have to fork over the cash for allergy testing. I have a friend with an English Bulldog, who was constantly licking her paws, and constantly had hot spots... they did the testing, and amongst the many food allergies she has, she is allergic to COTTON!!! so even her bed was making her itch!

She's all better now!