My vet is one of those "rare" vets who knows what's-what. I had my dogs on Premium Edge and it gave them poor coats and tartared teeth. They got lethargic and so i switched immediately. The only dogs of mine that did well on Premium Edge were a rescued Shih-tzu and my first boxer who passed away. Both of my current boxers have sensitive stomachs and if i find a food they will eat and not get sick over, it makes us all excited. Ive taken your comment as constructive critisism, i'll use it to further my knowledge of dog foods. In fact, it's made me think twice about the dog foods i use, maybe i'll try something new, seeing as we dont have Innova around here i'll have to look online. But if they cannot switch for the sake of dehydration when they get sick again, i don't think its worth making them completely sick over.

[mrandrei]

Pedigree Adult is a pretty good dog food.

l feed my dogs Advance and Science Diet,l buy a Slab of each and l am happy
to use any dry food as long as it says for Sensitive Skin.
lf there is anything like Rice,Chicken,Sausages or Pasta left
over from Dinner l give that to them aswell.

[CaneCorso]

Originally Posted by GermanShepherdLover

What about Iams? I hear it is one of the best dog foods?

Iams is one of the worst.....

[Mr. Vega]

Originally Posted by Suzzie

Vets receive VERY little training in dog nutrition. Essentially all they know is what the food reps go around to each clinic and tell them. Obviously they're going to tell them they have the best food. Vets get a nice kickback including free food for their own pets from these companies, so of course they're going to tell you that's the best food. The smaller companies, who have the great ingredients, don't have the resources to go around selling their food to vets - they put their money into their food, so you're not paying for the advertising. It's a rare veterinarian indeed who actually knows the what's-what of the dog food world.

There are a LOT of resources on dog nutrition on the internet. Take a few minutes and read up.

Unfortunately, this little paragraph is all too common on the net. I never have discovered how some people can take a few facts and extrapolate massive conspiracy theories.

I am a student in vet school, and, I can assure everyone that there are no side deals, secret negotiations, cash in an unmarked bag, etc... that veterinarians receive from pet food companies. In fact, there are VERY strict rules that prevent such things from happening. A vet would be in big, big trouble if the AVMA found out that he/she was receiving kickback/money for promoting certain products.

Do we receive little education in "nutrition?" Well if you're speaking in terms of do we have an entire class devoted to "what's the best dog food" the answer is no. There is rarely any classes offered that are titled "Nutrition." The components of nutrition are covered separately within other classes and we are expected to be able to "put it all together" on our own. So, to say that "Essentially all they know is what the food reps go around to each clinic and tell them" is well, completely wrong.

A little more on dog food... So why isn't there a huge academic push for "nutrition" in vet school? Well, where do you go when YOU want advice about nutrition? You go to a someone that specializes in human nutrition. Most people specializing in animal nutrition are not vets, they're pHDs working in a lab (usually biochemists). Humans have a specialist for everything at their fingertips. We, however, are expected to be more than proficient in surgery, radiology, dentistry, dermatology, orthopedics, internal medicine, etc etc etc.... all within 4 years of school.
So like I said, we are well educated on the components of nutrition, but, there just isn't time for a class with that title.

And, as far as researching the net - great advice, but, as they always say: Anyone can write anything on the net. There's a lot of good, but, PLENTY of misinformation out there.

[Lara's mom]

Best advice: Learn to read and understand the list of ingredients on the dog food bags. Too many people out there are paying top dollar for a lot of cheap fillers. Absolutely, pay top dollar for the best possible food. However, make sure that you know what you're reading so that you can determine the best possible food for your money.

[fidobuddy]

Evo and Nature's Variety are good choices

[gblack]

My dogs is pretty large, and she enjoys IAMS.

[ntrep]

I haven't seen anyone post about BilJac. Our English Setter lived to 15yrs on BilJac. We have a new setter puppy who was started on the Iams puppy, but we have switched him to BilJac puppy which he likes much better.
Nancy

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by gblack

My dogs is pretty large, and she enjoys IAMS.

Your dog may enjoy Iam's but that doesn't mean it is a 'good' nutritious food!!! And when a dog 'enjoys' a crappy dog food it is prob. because it is full of hidden sugars---Dogs like sweet stuff! I feed raw and some home-cooking so I don't like any commercial stuff. But If you must feed commercial--Best to study up on the brands--Some are definitely useless for nutrition!!!!!

[Pet food store owner]

Originally Posted by Mr. Vega

Unfortunately, this little paragraph is all too common on the net. I never have discovered how some people can take a few facts and extrapolate massive conspiracy theories.

I am a student in vet school, and, I can assure everyone that there are no side deals, secret negotiations, cash in an unmarked bag, etc... that veterinarians receive from pet food companies. In fact, there are VERY strict rules that prevent such things from happening. A vet would be in big, big trouble if the AVMA found out that he/she was receiving kickback/money for promoting certain products.

Do we receive little education in "nutrition?" Well if you're speaking in terms of do we have an entire class devoted to "what's the best dog food" the answer is no. There is rarely any classes offered that are titled "Nutrition." The components of nutrition are covered separately within other classes and we are expected to be able to "put it all together" on our own. So, to say that "Essentially all they know is what the food reps go around to each clinic and tell them" is well, completely wrong.

A little more on dog food... So why isn't there a huge academic push for "nutrition" in vet school? Well, where do you go when YOU want advice about nutrition? You go to a someone that specializes in human nutrition. Most people specializing in animal nutrition are not vets, they're pHDs working in a lab (usually biochemists). Humans have a specialist for everything at their fingertips. We, however, are expected to be more than proficient in surgery, radiology, dentistry, dermatology, orthopedics, internal medicine, etc etc etc.... all within 4 years of school.
So like I said, we are well educated on the components of nutrition, but, there just isn't time for a class with that title.

And, as far as researching the net - great advice, but, as they always say: Anyone can write anything on the net. There's a lot of good, but, PLENTY of misinformation out there.

My issue is that if they can sell what they presribe, which to me is wrong. They better have a incredible knowledge of all foods, not just the ones that they push. In my 22 years of owning a pet food store, i have come to realization that Vets as a rule with exceptions promote the foods that were involved at the universities they went to. I know 1st hand that Science Diet pays for students pet food while at school and that the margins that a pet food store sells their food to the margins that a vet puts on their food is vastly different.( Vets work on huge margins) I really think that they should not sell food at all. PERIOD. Pet food stores could take a weekend course on how to read a prescription. Or they could get it from a accredited pharmacist. During the last big recall in 07, Medi-cal, Hills, Eukanuba, Royal Canin all had recalls. Luckily I had none because of following certain protocols when selling pet foods. In closing when you can judge and jury by prescribing and filling their own prescriptions, Vets have way too much power to wield.

[Mr. Vega]

Originally Posted by Pet food store owner

My issue is that if they can sell what they presribe, which to me is wrong. They better have a incredible knowledge of all foods, not just the ones that they push. In my 22 years of owning a pet food store, i have come to realization that Vets as a rule with exceptions promote the foods that were involved at the universities they went to. I know 1st hand that Science Diet pays for students pet food while at school This is wrong - we get a discount on that food but it's not free, and, I still don't buy it. and that the margins that a pet food store sells their food to the margins that a vet puts on their food is vastly different.( Vets work on huge margins) I really think that they should not sell food at all. PERIOD I understand you're probably not in favor, but, you do OWN a pet food store - of course you're going to be a little biased. And, it's not as if owners are forced to buy pet food from vets. Most owners that I know that buy from vets know full well that it costs more, they just prefer to get it at the vet so they don't have to go anywhere else. Pet food stores could take a weekend course on how to read a prescription They're called Rx diets for a reason. You can't take a "weekend course" to be a pharmacist can you? The person dispensing prescription diets should have knowledge of why it's being prescribed just like any other prescription - As for the non-prescription food, I could care less whether it's sold at vet hospitals or not (but like I said, some clients just want to get everything done at the same location). Or they could get it from a accredited pharmacist Sorry, but, something tells me that human pharmacists are not going to be in favor of dispensing 40 lb bags of prescription dog food - . During the last big recall in 07, Medi-cal, Hills, Eukanuba, Royal Canin all had recalls. Luckily I had none because of following certain protocols when selling pet foods. In closing when you can judge and jury by prescribing and filling their own prescriptions, Vets have way too much power to wield.So what is the solution?? You can present a problem but you have no good solution? We shouldn't be dispensing drugs now? Who's going to do it? Do you know anyone that isn't a vet that has in depth knowledge of pharmacology and pharmacokinetics in veterinary prescription drugs? I sure don't. If the day comes that there is a veterinary pharmacology school and there are pharmacists that are qualified to dispense veterinary prescription drugs, I'm all for it. But, I think we both know that's very unlikely. Pharmacy schools aren't going to incorporate another year or two of courses so they can produce pharmacists that are competent in both human and vet. drugs

But, back to just food - Personally, I don't really care for vets selling non Rx foods. That's what pet food stores are for. But, like I said, if the clients are demanding it (which, they are) vets are going to provide them the service. I know that isn't good for YOUR business, but, you can't get mad at veterinarians for providing food that their clients demand just because you provide that food too. I've never met a client that wasn't aware of pet food stores. So, if a vet recommends a food brand, that client knows full well that that brand is available in places other than the vet's office.

[Pet food store owner]

It is not about getting mad, it is about common sense. IT is like Patients asking doctors for their own presriptions to given at the office. What would the difference be? It is the belief that vets know a fair amount about foods which they categorically do not. It is about taking away the ability to be judge and jury so the customers do not get taken for a ride so to speak. I know that you are a student and that you do not awnser for the vet community, but why should they be able to sell products to customers. Whether they are rx or not. Without getting into it, most vets again are against raw foods which is a segment where they have little to no working knowledge and are shunned to be honest by the limited companies that sell food to the Veterinarian community. It is simple to say about myself getting mad but it simply is not right on a ethical and moral basis to be able to sell what you prescribe. It is like a god syndrome. How many people blindly trust their vet on all things when honestly when it comes to foods it is really their week point. One only has to look back at all the recalls to see that Vets, who hold amazing power with their customers missed the boat on using foods with seperated grains causing them to use glutens to bolster the protein level.

[Pet food store owner]

Mr Vega,

When i say take a weekend course, it is not to be a pharmacist it is to be able to read a note from the Vet on what food to be used in certain situations. I firmly believe that if this was to happen, the prescription food section of the market would dry up as it is yet another way of making them more money.
Again, i stress it is not about being mad or jealous but about what is truly right, ethical and most important moral. Basically it boils down to this: are they Doctors or are they Salesmen, you cannot be both.

[Lara's mom]

I think the biggest problem is that just like human physicians don't get enough training in nutrition, nor do veterinarians get enough training in animal nutrition. This is something that both human and veterinary schools need to address in order to serve their respective patients better.

However, I must agree with Mr. Vega in that there are no "conspiracies or back room deals" going on. Those who become veterinarians, do so out of a love for animals and a desire to keep them healthy. I firmly believe that.

Prescription diets serve an important purpose for those animals who suffer from certain medical conditions and it is my opinion that a veterinarian is the best person to decide if a given patients' condition warrants one of these special diets. I know for a fact that without prescription food for sick and underweight puppies and kittens, I would have lost some of my foster "kids" who instead thrived and went on to forever homes.

FYI, I don't know if you're aware of this site. It's called Balance IT. They put together home cooked recipes for dogs and cats based on the choices made by the owner. There is also a section for veterinarians that assists them in helping their clients formulate healthy home cooked meals and also meals for animals with various medical conditions. I don't know if you'd be interested but, it might be worth taking a look at.

[Pet food store owner]

Agreed, however that does not mean that they should be able to sell what they prescribe. IT should be thru a certified store who taken a course and carries rx foods and fills the prescription, or a pharmacist who have the product in their drug store either way works for me.
On the terms of rx diets, do you not think that the quality of their ingredients should be challenged? Read a can of Hills prescription and tell me where the the quality is? Bottom line is this, they can tell you what you need but they should not be able to sell it as well as it clearly crossing moral and ethical lines.

[Pet food store owner]

You have to take the emotion away from the equation. Vets Doctors all start with the highest morals, expectations and all take hypcractical oaths to provide the best care for both humans and animals, however being able to tell you what to buy and then sell it to you is not right.

I have been to that site before and found it usefull. There are many, many sites on the net that bring a wealth of information as there are sites that are down right dangerous. To draw a parallell comparison imagine a realtor being able to tell you what you need for living accomodations. Perhaps a used car salesman telling you what kind of car you need. These are farfetched in comparisons but it makes my point.

[Lara's mom]

Frankly, I don't see why not. I will agree with you 100% that Science Diet is not good food and I wouldn't feed it to my dogs.

However, as far as prescription diets go, I see nothing wrong in vets selling food designed for specific medical conditions.

When my girls aren't feeling well and I take them to their Doctor, he will prescribe medication that he sells to me, just like their yearly Revolution for heartworm, flea and intestinal parasite control. Allan (my girls Dr.) is doing me a service by having those things available so I can get the medication my girls need as quickly as possible. The alternative would be to run around all over the city trying to find a pharmacy that actually dispenses animal medication. I don't know how things are in the States but here in Toronto where I live, I only know of one pharmacy who has a pharmacist who is qualified to dispense animal meds and keeps them stocked to they don't have to be ordered in.

By the time I've taken my girls home from the hospital, gone back out again to the pharmacy I mentioned, handed over the prescription, waited for it to be filled and then made my way back home, my girls could have already begun treatment for whatever ails them simply because I was able to get it from Allan while I was at the hospital.

[Pet food store owner]

Ethics are not about convienance, Doctors are supposed to be shop keepers. IT really blurs the lines when you can judge and jury. Tell you what you need and then sell it to you. While you agree that Science Diet is not good food, why do they sell it? Does it not make you wonder why they sell it. Does not give you reservations about what else they do? Maybe ask why they sell the products that they do? No one should above reproach and maybe more people who wield power should have their feet held to the fire. If their food had not been involved in recalls, maybe more slack should be given.

[Pet food store owner]

The sentence should have read" Doctors are not supposed to be shop keepers" I also see no problems with medications as it is a very big operation. In B.C, Vets lobbied and had laws passed that Pharmacists cannot fill Vet prescriptions