I started Gunther on a fresh food diet a little over a month ago and he's been doing well on it except that recently when on his walks in the woods he started eating other dogs' feces. He's never done this before which makes me think it's related to the new diet, and that maybe he's not getting enough of a certain nutrient? His meals consist of various meats (beef, chicken or pork, with liver and/or heart), 1 egg either hard-boiled or poached, and vegetables (kale, cabbage, peas, carrots, and alfalfa sprouts all pureed to aid digestion) with a tablespoon of cider vinegar. He gets a multi-supplement for seniors and extra vitamin C daily, plus a calcium supplement with meals. Has anyone else experienced this? Were you able to identify a certain vitamin or nutrient deficiency as the culprit? Was there a certain food you added that put a stop to the stool eating? I'm determined to keep him on fresh food, but aside from the new behavior being disgusting I'm worried about parasites and pathogens. You never know what's in another dog's stool.

We had a female dog that ate poop and did some research on it. For females at least, it seemed to be a nurturing thing believe it or not -- females, we were informed, typically eat the poop of their pups and many carry it into later life. Our gal was a very nurturing dog and constantly groomed the others.

Which doesn't explain your situation. But while we were looking into this matter, we thought it might be a diet thing. More than a few sources say that dogs DO NOT instinctively eat things they are deficient in.

However, my gut feeling is that it certainly could be because of the diet change. The other dogs poop may smell like your dogs old diet and he's drawn to it.

It wouldn't be enough for me to change him back to the old diet but I'd do whatever I could to discourage that new habit.

I'm real interested in what others think about this.

That's an interesting thought about the poop smelling like his old food. I'm not sure what I can do to stop it if that's the case though. Right now I'm basically watching him like a hawk during our walks. He's off-leash in the woods though so sometimes he gets ahead of me and I've been unable to get to him in time to stop him from eating it. I'd hate to have to resort to keeping him on a leash the entire time.

I've taught my pups to "drop it" when they pick something they shouldn't (which was REAL helpful when one picked up a chihuahua). They never like that command. Of course the problem is when I'm not right with them.

One thought that I'll mention (but am not recommending - how's that for being a politician) is the use of a shock collar. I've never used one and won't want to but as a last resort - if I couldn't get compliance - I might opt for one. I think the dogs life would have to be in danger before I'd resort to one (and poop eating probably isn't life theatening - just disgusting and perhaps unhealthy depending on its... uh.... quality(?) is. Just a thought..........

I feed the barf diet as well, I didnt read anything about bones though in your original post.
What kind of bone source is your dog getting?
Dogs eat feces for multiple reasons, mainly being lack of nutrition in there diet...
Since it's other dogs feces, it's hard to do much about that but if u see it before your dog dogs, sprinkle some tobasco sauce on it...it should keep your dog from eating it.

Joe, Gunther's the same way. If I'm right there with him and tell him to drop something he does it. If there's some distance between us though he ignores the command. I'm not too keen on the idea of a shock collar. I considered one when he was younger and a lot more rebellious but never went that route on account of it just seemed cruel. Putting one on him now at his age feels even more so.

Lazyacrelab, when I started Gunther on fresh food I was originally feeding him the barf diet but later changed it. When I came across Dog and Cat Health Care Information by Veterinarians at ThePetCenter.com, The Internet Pet Hosp. it changed my mind about bones. Since bone is basically composed of calcium and phosphorous which can be easily supplemented by other means, I decided the nutritional value of feeding bones didn't warrant the risk (yes, there is risk even with raw bones). As for the raw meat, I was never comfortable with the idea of feeding raw chicken, and when I ran it by my vet she didn't advise it as she felt no dog needs to be exposed to salmonella. Of course, her opinion was based on speculation and conjecture same as those who say that salmonella poses no risk because of a dog's digestive system. Preferring to err on the side of caution I decided to start cooking Gunther's meals and use supplements to make up for any lost nutrition as a result of cooking. Personally, I sometimes think the internet should be renamed "The Misinformation Highway" because of the way ideas get passed along and repeated as fact regardless of whether there's any real scientific basis supporting them. When a person researches any particular subject and sees the same opinion everywhere they look they naturally accept it as true simply because everybody's saying it. I can't say that's the case when it comes to the barf diet. I'm just saying I question what I read on the internet regardless of how widespread an idea is.

Getting back to Gunther's recent stool eating, I agree that it's probably due to a lack of something in his diet. I was using bone meal as a source of calcium to replace bone in his diet, but later learned of meat's high phosphorous content which combined with the phosphorous in the bone meal I became concerned that the overall calcium to phosphorous ratio was likely imbalanced with excessive phosphorous putting his bones at risk since the body will use calcium from it's own bones if phosphorous consumed is higher than the calcium in one's diet. This lead me to switch to a calcium supplement with vitamin D in it but no phosphorous. Of course, I'm basically guessing on what dosage to give him. Right now he's getting 690mg with each meal, which to me seems a bit on the low side so I'm thinking about upping the dosage to see if that puts a stop to the behavior.

Oh wow, I really dont know how to reply to your response. I feel you are really misinformed. Im not sure exactly why u think u can just supplement bones because how do ur dogs clean there teeth?
Im SERIOUSLY suprised you dont have a house full of loose stools.
I guess to each there own and in my professional opinion a change in diet is needed if ur dog is resorting to eating feces.

No offense, but have you ever heard of a toothbrush? I brush Gunther's teeth after every meal (which is better care than my own teeth get :mrgreen. That was the case when he was on commercial food and it remains so now, and Gunther's teeth have gotten nothing but rave reviews from every vet who's ever seen him so I have no reason to think that's suddenly going to change. As for whether I'm misinformed, that's always a possibility but the fact is there is no evidence besides anecdotal that barf is completely safe much less the ideal diet for dogs. The fact of the matter is that while admittedly rare dogs who are fed raw bones do experience punctures, obstructions, cracked teeth and impactions. A lot of people feel the benefits of feeding raw bones far outweigh the minimal likelihood of complications from doing so, but as I mentioned I prefer to err on the side of caution and don't see any point in taking a chance when the nutritional benefits of bone can be acquired by other means without any risk at all. The only nutrition bones provide is calcium and phosphorous, period. To say those two nutrients can only be provided through raw bones is simply untrue. Nor is it true that a diet lacking bones is destined to lead to gum disease and tooth decay, nor that a bone deficiency results in a dog shooting diarrhea all over the house. Plenty of dogs go their entire lives without ever eating a bone and experience no such problems. As for your "professional opinion", I can't begin to imagine what profession could give you a superior, more informed opinion here (which is the implication when one uses such terms) when even veterinarians and nutritionists have varying opinions on the issue. As you say though, to each is own, so we can just agree to disagree. I do agree that based on the new behavior Gunther's diet needs some tweaking. I'm just not sold on the idea that it has anything to do with bones missing from his diet.

Oh yikes, ok...
I guess i was unaware that this forum was already "professional" and that statement need'nt be added, i am under the impression there are many newcomers daily whom ask alot of simple questions(not that, thats bad because i like to give advice)
Im all for different types of diets for dogs because not every dog is the same and we seem to agree that there's something lacking to make your dog eat feces. it's just finding the right ingredient that is lacking to fix it.
I am extremely anti-vet when it comes to nutritional facts and the proper diet for dogs, as they are not nutritionist and they dish out Iam, Eukanuba and regular types of Science diet(not just the prescription stuff) and make it sound like some great thing we're doing for our dogs is to load them with fillers like corn, and glutten so that many dogs end up with food allergies and need to be put on a special diet to help curve outbreaks.
I guess the first thing to do is start with a list of the things u feed on a daily basis...
could u give me a list of ingredients u usually use and maybe together we can find something thats missing or needs more of?

I didn't mean to offend you with the "professional" remark. It's just my experience that when people throw around phrases like "in my professional opinion" they're a lot of times just trying to give weight to their positions and it doesn't really mean anything. My immediate reaction is to call a person on it (sorry, just can't help myself).

As for the ingredients I'm feeding Gunther, they're pretty much as I listed: various meats (rotating between chicken, beef, and pork, with liver and/or heart), 1 egg per meal, and for vegetables kale, cabbage, carrots, peas, and alfalfa sprouts. I modeled the vegetables largely after Darwin's Natural (a prepared raw diet) when I started Gunther on the raw diet, the exceptions being that Darwin's includes zucchini and yellow squash in their recipe and excludes the peas. I added a tablespoon of cider vinegar because I'd read good things about it and have seen it listed in many commercial foods, including the Darwin's. If money were no object I would add raw honey to the diet, a greens juice including the juices of alfalfa wheat and barley grasses and spirulina, plus I'd add gogi juice for the additional health benefits. I'm unable to squeeze those out of the budget right now though. The supplements he's currently on include Dr. Foster's and Smith LifeStages Plus for Seniors, Drs. Fosters and Smith Vitamin C, and generic brand calcium supplements with added vitamin D. (He takes a couple of other supplements for his arthritis but those I think are beside the point in this case).

Right now I'm thinking a lot about portions. In another dog forum, someone suggested that hunger could possibly cause a dog to eat another dog's stool if he wasn't getting enough to eat. I modeled the portions I've been feeding Gunther after the recommended portions for commercial raw diets on the market. The general consensus was approximately 8 oz. for a dog Gunther's size and weight. I bought a food scale so I could make sure everything was measured accurately. He's been getting 6 oz. of meat and 2 oz. of vegetables plus the egg. I continued with these portions after I began cooking the meat (the eggs I had always cooked because they're easier to digest, and I should add that for the first batch of vegetables I added one boiler bag of brown rice to aid his transition over to fresh food and prevent his stools from becoming runny as can happen any time you change a dog's food). I'm very weight conscious with Gunther as he has a tendency to gain weight easily and he's currently at his ideal weight. I wanted to make sure he was getting the nutrition he needed but didn't want to overfeed and have him start putting on the pounds again. But now I'm wondering if he hasn't been getting enough to fill him? I went ahead and increased the portions for his evening meal tonight and will do so again for his breakfast tomorrow and see if it has any effect on his behavior...

I would probably suggest he may not be getting enough as well..How much does he weigh?
I recently purchased a scale myself, so i could portion meals out more accurately for my 4.
It's drastically helped as well as...i feel as though they are getting appropriate amounts without worry. I dont know how i lived without it.
Have you thought at all about carbs?
I have labs so of course they have like endless amounts of energy so carbs were almost an absolute MUST for me.
Everyweek i rotate between Oatmeal or brown rice/shrimp/sardine mush(i call it mush because i mix it all together so it's mushy lol)
I use an ice cream scoop so the portions are equal for all of my dogs.
If i feed oatmeal, i only give one ice cream scoop full, if i do the rice mixture i give two as ( i dont know if this is true, but this is just what i think) i want them to get a little of each in the mixture in case i dont have it mixed well enough, ontop of which-i dont think rice is all that filling.
So if it IS a hunger issue...carbs are always an option, what do u think?
(oh by the way, im moving tomorrow so i dont know when ill be able to check this again, im not getting the internet right away so i dont want you to think i've ditched out on ya)

Things are looking pretty good. This is day number two without incident after increasing the amount of food Gunther gets in the morning before his morning walk in the woods. He has come across other dogs' stool and shown little interest. If hunger was the problem all along I feel pretty stupid. And guilty. I may cut down the amount he gets for his evening meal to compensate for the increased calories in the morning. His evening walk is downtown so there's no feces left behind for him to come across if he's still a bit hungry after dinner. I don't like the idea of him feeling hungry overnight but a compromise may be necessary to keep his weight down while making sure he doesn't resort to eating poop again. Right now his weight is about 84 lbs. which my vet says is a good weight for him, and since he's had problems with arthritis it's especially important to keep his weight down. Of course, this is all assuming that the problem is solved. I'll follow up in a few days to report if things are still going well.