[puppylove2009]

It seems indeed Zackie does have Pancreatitis and its not going anywhere.

The medicines just make him weaker and weaker.

He is having flair ups about every 6-8 weeks.

I'm scared out of my mind. I don't know what the odds are.

He gets real shaky now from time to time and literally has passed out on me 2times. When he gets shaky I get him to eat a few pieces of kibble (but I have to force him to do so at that point)

Anyways its time to think outside the box. IF the meds are just making him weaker maybe diet can help with the issue as well.

We currently feed California Naturals Low Fat Chicken and Rice. If I have to start making him homemade meals I will.

I asked about Probiotic enzymes and I never got any real answers (the vets office) Other than it probably won't do anything but you can try it.

So I need help I'm going into this blind.

I need to come up with a good diet for a dog with Pancreatitis something safe yet good for him.

Something that will help him.

Where do I start?

[CorkyMax]

I am coming in here, really not that prepared so will try to post more later. Did you go for a 2nd opinion (dif. vet?) I think you would be wise to see a holistic vet. What are all the meds that Zack is on?? For now I suggest you enter words in your browser--Put name of medication/side effects--each med. separately . I am definitely not an expert but it sounds like this situation is not getting any better and something else needs to be done. Will come back again with whatever I can find. It does sound like more is going on than what your vet has found or dog is reacting to too many drugs, etc. Other things to check out on web----Holistic vets--locations--phone #s--consultations--fees. Don't know if she is still around but put Dr. Beverly Cappel-King in your browser---She is /was the best. Did they check for diabetes lately?? Quote frm vet book: Following an attack of pancreatitis, the pancreas may be permanently damaged. When it is, the dog may develop DIABETES MELLITUS if the islet cells have been destroyed or EXOCRINE PANCREATIC INSUFFICIENCY if the acinar cells have been destroyed.-----look up some of this 'stuff' too. If the dog is not eating (for how long??) he probably is weak from this too. PLEASE MAKE SURE HE IS DRINKING A LOT OF WATER---Even broth-defatted broth of course or boil some chicken---take all skin and fat off before simmering---make sure you put enough water to simmer in so it doesn't all boil away. How long has Zack been eating chicken 'products'---maybe she/he also has a food allergy. After the broth has cooled--stick in refrigerator--take chicken out of course--When broth has cooled enough-check to see if any fat has collected on top of broth--If so, skim off that fat and throw it away. Give the broth and might try cutting chick pcs up and feeding that too--I WOULD BUY SKINNED DEBONED CHICKEN BREASTS to avoid the fat and bones as much as possible--and do make sure you take your fingers and search the broth for any small bones that might be in there--or drain into a collander(MISSPELLED?) The problem I have with food suggestions is this quote: Abdominal pain is caused by the release of digestive enzymes into the pancreas and surrounding tissue. Diarrhea, dehydration, weakness and shock may ensue. (This is what happens when an attack of pancreatitis occurs) So I'm not sure what kind of foods to avoid--besides the fat of course--as I imagine that these digestive enzymes will be released as soon as the food is being digested--but will see what I can find---may not be for a couple days as the next 2-3 days are going to be busy ones for me and it is also going to take me time to try and find something on this----I suggest you do a lot of research with your browser! (I feel for your poor baby--looks like such a nice dog --that pic. is so happy-looking. One thing it does sy in this book---Feed the total daily ration in 2-3 sm. meals to avoid overstimulating the pancreas. Another thing on the chick. breasts--Make sure you check for how much salt/sodium is in the pkg--A lot of those bagged specials have salt water added to them--more expensive but to stay away frm salt-best to buy the 'single' unfroz. pkgs. AND DON"T LET HIM GET DEHYDRATED---Can happen real fast with all the vomiting and diarrhea--life threatening!! Going to end this for now--if it gets too long it won't get posted.

[CorkyMax]

I was afraid of that post getting too long and that is one reason some of these posts get 'eliminated' Not much more to say right now but a couple things---I think I would stay away from grains---These are not easily digested so I'm thinking the pancreas with the release of those enzymes might put more stress and pain trying to digest them. Grains are not the best thing anyhow--esp. corn and wheat---A lot of dogs have allergy issues with grains. Oh yeh, does Zack itch and bite a lot--esp. feet? (could be frm a food allergy--or even medication) You might try boiling some lean ground beef (I know-expensive stuff) or if you do get the cheaper hamburger--After boiling it and draining as much grease off as possible--put it in a food colander and rinse several times (stirring to help get the grease out) till it is greaseless (do that w/ the leaner stuff too!) Now if the meat is figured out--still need a little carbohydrates but this is where I'm not sure what would be the best veggies to use to avoid the most pain while those enzymes are in play and causing pain Try putting some words in browser on order of Pancreatitis/dogs/food or foods to feed dog with pancreatitis---Just keeping trying variations on words you use till hopefully you get some info to come up! Like I said I need to do some research myself but will give you these foods to think about and maybe find out if they would be good or not--I DO NOT KNOW RIGHT NOW but I'm wondering about poached or soft-boiled eggs (real runny-barely cooked--I would even suggest raw but Zack's immune system may not be at it's best right now and not be able to handle the 'bacteria-whatever in a raw egg (like Salmonella) And these foods are very good for a dog but whether good for this condition??--canned salmon--have to watch the salt--maybe rinse a little--hate to give up that liquid juice though--maybe just wouldn't feed too much at a time--check labels for salt/sodium contents of things--dogs aren't suppose to have too much salt! Canned pumpkin (not the pie filling--but just pure pumpkin) This is sometimes mixed w/ equal parts Plain nonfat yogurt with all the good probiotics in it -check label for things like acidiphillus(MISSPELLED?) and other good cultures. I am really iffy on this -whether it would be okay or not but low-fat cottage cheese--I know milk is not a good thing for dogs--can cause diarrhea! But on other hand I would think cottage cheese would be easy digestable--Just keep in mind that I'm only guessing on this stuff right now. I'm,like I said, not really prepared right now---I'm just giving you some things that will give you something to try and find out about----I don't want Zack to get any weaker or malnourished(mispld?) so want to get you looking for things now!!
Why don't you call your library and see if they can find a book on Pancreatitis in dogs to do w/ how to feed or just Pancreatitis as humans would prob. use the same kind of diet--they have access to a lot of libraries to try and find a book! Even though this is a grain--It is the best of the bunch--I'm wondering about oatmeal--would be filling and warm--check on that too. Got to go --getting too long again---Keep me posted and give me all the info you can so I can try to come up with more ideas!

[puppylove2009]

Zack is not on any medicines other than the antibiotics they give him during the flair ups and the anti diahrea medicine.

No he is not allergic to chicken (but he is allergic to corn)

No further tests have been done. The nearest holistic vet is 4 hours away but where we are moving to this summer has one that is no more than an hour away.

I am starting a bunch of research on this

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by puppylove2009

Zack is not on any medicines other than the antibiotics they give him during the flair ups and the anti diahrea medicine.

No he is not allergic to chicken (but he is allergic to corn)

No further tests have been done. The nearest holistic vet is 4 hours away but where we are moving to this summer has one that is no more than an hour away.

I am starting a bunch of research on this

What is /are the names of the antibiotics? He should definitely be on probiotics as the meds destroy the good (necessary) bacteria and this just might 'do double duty' for his problems. The yogurt I mentioned would be one
way to try to bring this back or get some supplements (health food store--Don't know the right dosage but GUESSING it wouldn't be harmful if gave a little too much---Maybe the health food store people could tell you or try finding out on the internet. I have to say this--Do you really want to wait that long to take Zack to a holistic vet---maybe you will find some answers with all the things you are checking into. Was he checked for diabetes recently and the other things I mentioned---It could very easily happen for how long and often he has had these attacks---You wouldn't want to wait on treatment for that if he has it. I know, everything is so da_ _ expensive!!
One other thing I keep thinking about--In another post you mentioned about getting another dog now to replace Zack if he didn't make it--I hope you don't!---You may not believe in this but----Poor Zack would know what you were doing and may just give up, figuring you were more or less giving up on him. I have read books on this kind of thing---Dogs are smarter than you think and are (esp. if they love you) very intuitive and very tuned into their 'master.' Poor baby. Talk to you later.

[CorkyMax]

I knew I had posted about pancreatitis somewhere before!!--thought it was in another Forum (Pets.ca/forum) but just found it in this forum. Might find some more info there. Go into the forum--Dog Health and Nutrition here and
scroll down to the post titled: Belly hair and Loose Stool--my posts are #s 3 and 4 (posted a week ago)

First: STOP. BREATH.

Second: Diet CAN help your dog but there is not a generic diet for all dogs with pancreatitis. You need extensive help in formulating an appropriate diet.

Third: Homecooking is not easy. You need to make sure you are prepared to spend time cooking, measuring, calculating, etc. It's a long way from opening a bag of kibble. But, I think it is the way to go. DO NO DO RAW FOR A DOG WITH A COMPROMISED IMMUNE SYSTEM WHICH YOUR'S IS.

Now, where to get the help you need. There are two Yahoo! groups you can sign up for where you can begin your learning curve in the world of home prepared dog food.

ThePossibleCanine-Nutrition : ThePossibleCanine-Nutrition
K9Kitchen : dog diets raw cooked allergies disease

Both groups are headed by women who have extensive knowledge and training in canine nutrition. I've already advised you several times to contact Cat at the first one. If you were dealing with a healthy dog, you would have room to play with learning this on your own. Your dog is not healthy--you need an appropriate diet NOW so you need specific advise specific to your dog.

Hi,

Veterinary nutrition is a select field, not many vets are well versed in canine nutrition, or nutritional therapy. We have researched and found several vet nutritionists who have a proven track record of successful nutritional therapy. Especially since yours is an organ issue, I think it will help..and yes, it doe involve home cooking. Send me a private message and I'll give you the contact info and details of a specialist I think can help. Hang in there! Thanks for Loving Your Dog!

Originally Posted by puppylove2009

It seems indeed Zackie does have Pancreatitis and its not going anywhere.

The medicines just make him weaker and weaker.

He is having flair ups about every 6-8 weeks.

I'm scared out of my mind. I don't know what the odds are.

He gets real shaky now from time to time and literally has passed out on me 2times. When he gets shaky I get him to eat a few pieces of kibble (but I have to force him to do so at that point)

Anyways its time to think outside the box. IF the meds are just making him weaker maybe diet can help with the issue as well.

We currently feed California Naturals Low Fat Chicken and Rice. If I have to start making him homemade meals I will.

I asked about Probiotic enzymes and I never got any real answers (the vets office) Other than it probably won't do anything but you can try it.

So I need help I'm going into this blind.

I need to come up with a good diet for a dog with Pancreatitis something safe yet good for him.

Something that will help him.

Where do I start?

[puppylove2009]

Corky/Max: Don't worry I am not getting another dog.....not for a couple of years atleast. I barely have time for Sasha with Zackie being so ill. Another dog would not be a good situation.

To: Everyone thanks for the info.

I am going to look for a vet nutritionist. I'm starting to look today.