[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by peterseaford

thanks very much - appreciate your information

regards peter

By lucky chance--came across title of book I wanted you to try and get from your library or where ever. I know it is in the library system as that is where I got it from a few months ago. Title: Foods Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food by Ann Martin. She has other good books too--just ask for more book titles by her.

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

By lucky chance--came across title of book I wanted you to try and get from your library or where ever. I know it is in the library system as that is where I got it from a few months ago. Title: Foods Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food by Ann Martin. She has other good books too--just ask for more book titles by her.

Here is an exerpt from Ann Martin's book

Food Pets Die For; a Book Excerpt

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

I do not wish to get into another 'session' about the raw diet being good or bad---like the session a while back!! And I don't know why the coat looks better after only 2 wks but I do know when that new coat does come in, If you are feeding raw right, it does make a better, healthier coat---I have my 2 dogs as proof of that!! And the person who is getting a schnauzer will benefit even more because a schnauzer is prone to a lot of allergies and being able to control the diet (like not using grains) will help in this area too! Another reason for a better coat is feeding some raw egg also. As far as feeding raw not being safe--If the dog is healthy it should not have problems (Of course there are exceptions--but how many!!?? and how do you know how healthy the immune system was at the time)? And like I said before raw is prob. safer than the crap that is sold as most commercial dog foods---I mentioned all the salmonella that was found in this stuff---moldy grains have been found also as well as other bad stuff(some pretty deadly too and some dogs have died because of it!!) Then there are all the animals that have died from kidney failure this past year or so--esp. cats, but many dogs too.---from the 'poison' that got put in so much dog food and there have been a lot of recalls on many brands. You do not know what is in the commercial dog food being sold. It all goes back to greed on the part of the manufacturers--You can not trust them--They do not care about your dog, period!! They (most of them) are only empty calories with no nutrition to keep your dog healthy---After so many years of eating this crap--the immune system has been compromised and the dog starts 'shutting down'--gets sick--gets diseases---liver goes bad as well as kidneys (over-taxed). Some dogs even get so they won't eat this crap after a while--not getting any satisfaction from it!! And it has been stated that a dog should live about 10 more years then they do--and it all started with the selling of crappy dogfood!! And wild dogs and wolves die young from many causes!! I have one question for you Vetgroomer (make that 2) What kind of dog food is sold at the vet's office where you do your grooming? And have you read the facts that have been proven about what all is in this commercial dogfood? You have your opinions and I have mine and I do not wish to 'fight' with you!!

You also have no idea what the cows/chickens are being fed or pumped into them. Farmers do all kinds of things to make the animal weigh more when it is time to go to market. Just because it's pure meat doesn't mean it's good meat.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

You also have no idea what the cows/chickens are being fed or pumped into them. Farmers do all kinds of things to make the animal weigh more when it is time to go to market. Just because it's pure meat doesn't mean it's good meat.

Oh, but I do know---and it should be 'outlawed'. And we are eating that stuff too and just because it is cooked--hardly makes any difference---How can you change cement dust for one??!! And the 'poisons' they add causes cancer too and you can't cook that out either! And if you can afford organic
meat--naturally much better for us (humans) and our dogs. I am not going to go into this subject any deeper---I've done it before and I am a one fingered slow typer and I tend to spend a lot of time on these forums as it is and it drives me crazy to keep repeating on things!! But can't resist this--At least when the dog is eating raw, You don't have to worry about what all the greedy, don't care about your dog, manufacturers are putting in the crap they call dog food--nothing but useless as far as nutrition goes too--just empty calories to keep your dog alive until the taxed, unhealthy immune system shuts down before it's time and lets disease--cancer--liver failure--kidney failure gain foothold. As I've said before--I FEEL SO DAMNED SORRY FOR DOGS. If most people only realised--It makes me so sad I can just cry!!
And dogfood is full of moldy grains--I have to quit now---my 2 are overdue for their RAW HEALTHY SUPPER!!! If people would just realize that proper nutrition is what keeps the dog alive and healthy. Proper Nutrition--The key words!!!!!

Just had to come back in here to say this---Have you read the above mentioned book or at least the insert that KarenandChevy gave the address for--If not I highly recommend it and wish you would---You might be very surprised!

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

You also have no idea what the cows/chickens are being fed or pumped into them. Farmers do all kinds of things to make the animal weigh more when it is time to go to market. Just because it's pure meat doesn't mean it's good meat.

This is true but it's still alot better than anything you'll find in a grocery store pet aisle. I mean after all you can clearly see with real meat, there is no corn that was scraped off the floor and not fit for human consumption or beak's, hoof's, euthanized animal's, and every thing else you can imagine and maybe can not in it.

Feeding raw is great. if you think about it the dogs out in the wild have always survived on raw food. They never get any of that processed commercial food that has fillers and tons of grain in it.
Raw diets are so healthy and not that hard to make either.

I'm still not convinced.

If ALL brands of regular dog food are so inferior, then why don't dogs that are fed this diet have much shorter lifespans?

Show me a third-party study showing that dogs of all breeds on the BARF (called barf for a reason?) diet have significantly increased lifespans compared to dogs on normal kibble diets, and I'll give it some thought.


PS Corky/Max: whose side are you on?

Oh, but I do know---and it should be 'outlawed'. And we are eating that stuff too and just because it is cooked--hardly makes any difference---How can you change cement dust for one??!! And the 'poisons' they add causes cancer too and you can't cook that out either!

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

I'm still not convinced.

If ALL brands of regular dog food are so inferior, then why don't dogs that are fed this diet have much shorter lifespans?

Show me a third-party study showing that dogs of all breeds on the BARF (called barf for a reason?) diet have significantly increased lifespans compared to dogs on normal kibble diets, and I'll give it some thought.


PS Corky/Max: whose side are you on?

It does'nt have to be "Raw" it just should be real meat, or a premium dog food that you are not going to find in your local grocery store such as Wellness, Innova, California Gold or there are many other's..

You can eat a box of cereal everyday and live, but how healthy will you be?

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by chevy & karen

It does'nt have to be "Raw" it just should be real meat, or a premium dog food that you are not going to find in your local grocery store such as Wellness, Innova, California Gold or there are many other's..

You can eat a box of cereal everyday and live, but how healthy will you be?

Good answer, Karen, thank you! You know I wasn't going to answer to this thread (Rot-whatever your username is--forgot at the moment,sorry!) for a while (other things to do) but it is bugging me and so I want to be done with this little argument you appear to want to keep going---It is a waste of my time and energy. If I thought you were sincerely interested for your dog's benefit it would be a different story but I am not going to keep butting my head against a brick wall---I've got better things to do!! You just go ahead and feed what you feed--but it is the dog's loss! And as to who's side am I on!!?-----Always the dog's---every dog!! And how you can ask me that question and not know by what I have written--I guess you are not intepretting it very well.

[Lara's mom]

My veterinarian is dead set against feeding a raw diet. I do however home cook for both of my girls and feed them a human grade organic kibble. They've done very well on a home cooked diet and I know that nothing goes into their food that I wouldn't eat myself. I realise there is a great deal of controversy about raw diets. There are also vets who are against home cooked food but, after the last pet food recall, I just don't trust commercial dog food anymore. If I could make my own kibble I would but, I've tried a few times and it has been a dismal failure.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing.

You made a thread saying that raw is the best. All I am doing is asking you to prove it before I feed it to my dog. Can you find the study I asked for?

Also, about eating cereal every day--a dog eating nothing but meat seems just as unvaried a diet as a human eating just cereal. GOOD kibble has minerals and meat included. Most kibbles have lots of grain also, but if dogs are omnivorous I don't see the problem?

I don't see why you think I am just trying to argue, Coky/Max, just because I have a different opinion. That is not a very good way to get people to understand why you like the raw diet.

[Lara's mom]

I've read extensively about home cooking and the general consensus appears to be that the best ratio for a healthy dog is about 50% high quality meat, 25% vegetables and 25% starch. Some people go by the 1/3 of each method but, I've found mine do better with more meat unless I supplement it with egg or cottage cheese.

Dogs have been domesticated for a long time. I don't think their needs are all that similar to their wild cousins.

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing.

You made a thread saying that raw is the best. All I am doing is asking you to prove it before I feed it to my dog. Can you find the study I asked for?

Also, about eating cereal every day--a dog eating nothing but meat seems just as unvaried a diet as a human eating just cereal. GOOD kibble has minerals and meat included. Most kibbles have lots of grain also, but if dogs are omnivorous I don't see the problem?

I don't see why you think I am just trying to argue, Coky/Max, just because I have a different opinion. That is not a very good way to get people to understand why you like the raw diet.

Hi RottorNot, if you are feeding a good kibble and are happy with it, then you really don't need any proof. Any proof you want you will find in your pup's health.
The Raw diet is'nt for everyone, Corky/Max has healthy pup's and want's to see them all healthy. I home prepare with mainly cooked but some raw along with fruit's, and veggies, I also use some dry along with it..

I think the thread was started by smoothchipper to tell us about their thought's and what the diet has done for their pup's.. Not to prove anything to anyone.

Originally Posted by chevy & karen

Hi RottorNot, if you are feeding a good kibble and are happy with it, then you really don't need any proof. Any proof you want you will find in your pup's health.
The Raw diet is'nt for everyone, Corky/Max has healthy pup's and want's to see them all healthy. I home prepare with mainly cooked but some raw along with fruit's, and veggies, I also use some dry along with it..

I think the thread was started by smoothchipper to tell us about their thought's and what the diet has done for their pup's.. Not to prove anything to anyone.

I do like to supplement my dog's diet, but all meat just seems...I dunno, over-doing it. Haha.

A question about fruits--citrus fruits such as oranges are bad, right?

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

I do like to supplement my dog's diet, but all meat just seems...I dunno, over-doing it. Haha.

A question about fruits--citrus fruits such as oranges are bad, right?

I don't know about citrus, mine will only eat cantaloupe and watermelon (he's a picky little guy).. I don't think any of us feed's strictly meat RotOrNot or at least I don't anyway. I do try to stay away from grain's because it causes ear issue's for mine but he is a cocker and it does'nt take much to flair up his ear's..

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing.

You made a thread saying that raw is the best. All I am doing is asking you to prove it before I feed it to my dog. Can you find the study I asked for?

Also, about eating cereal every day--a dog eating nothing but meat seems just as unvaried a diet as a human eating just cereal. GOOD kibble has minerals and meat included. Most kibbles have lots of grain also, but if dogs are omnivorous I don't see the problem?

I don't see why you think I am just trying to argue, Coky/Max, just because I have a different opinion. That is not a very good way to get people to understand why you like the raw diet.

That's right--I don't have to prove or explain over and over again in this forum about raw feeding. And actually (if you haven't already!!) YOU can find all the posts I've done on this if you go back in Dog Health and Nutrition-a section in this forum and look it all up or go on my profile page and check out my posts. You will also find if you are really interested--some web sites to click on in some of these posts and study for yourself---It took me several years for me to get it all down pat before I switched to raw---and I'm sure not going to have to 'write out' all I've learned-----BESIDES of which--YOu are not going to take my word for it anyhow!! And it should be easy enough for you to find all this info as being in the age bracket you are---You should be a computer whiz! I am not! You can also get some books from your library as I've commented about in other posts!! And FYI what really 'got me started' was that comment you made asking me Who's Side Am I ON---It sounded a little 'snide' to me!! BARF for Beginners - Most Frequently Asked Questions Put words in your browser like: Dogs/raw feeding and I'm sure you can think of other similar words to use. I really do hope you are sincerely interested in this for the sake of your dog's health--and if you are--you should make the effort to study up on this!!

Sorry if I sounded snide to you. I was just very confused because it seemed to me that you were emphasizing how disgusting meat can be, and how even humans shouldn't eat it...

I shall read up, I just hope science is included not just opinion.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

Sorry if I sounded snide to you. I was just very confused because it seemed to me that you were emphasizing how disgusting meat can be, and how even humans shouldn't eat it...

I shall read up, I just hope science is included not just opinion.

Okay--I can get a little hot under the collar--esp. when it has to do with dogs or/and raw feeding! And yes I guess I can see where you might be confused--I am disgusted with most of the food out there, for human or animal consumption. I"m really disgusted with the greedy--only care about the dollar way that this world is---not much I can do about it--and that I hope gives you some idea as to where I was coming from. I believe in the raw meat for dogs but wish it was safer just like I wish it was safer for us too!
I am willing to drop all the 'bad feelings' and misunderstandings--Sorry!

I hope you find what you are looking for--Don't know how much science on this you will find---People's experiences count too. And even if you are still confused about whether to raw feed or not----Don't just check that out but also look into all the bad commercial dog food that for one thing has been recalled. Another thing (and I'm not trying to be 'mean' here or anything) Not sure how to say this (My brain isn't working too good right now--should of went to bed about 3 hrs ago!) Check out what is wrong with commercial dog foods---examples--overcooked--vitamins and minerals heated and destroyed---carcenegins (I know, misspelled--not have energy right now to look it up)--very many in this stuff---Study what is in the commercial dog food and on all of this---And this is what I don't know how to say w/o you thinking 'something bad'---Use common sense and figure out things with your own mind--Put 2 and 2 together---Keep in mind at all times-the question of does this make for good nutrition? Compare the ways of feeding and that will maybe help you make up your mind. Nothing is perfect so compare and find the best choice of the 2. Don't just go looking for anything you can find to disregard raw feeding----There are a lot more reasons to disregard the greedy dog food manufacturers dog food who are out there for the buck and don't give a damn about you or your dog!

Am going to quote something I just copied off the 'net' yesterday and then I have to get to bed!
Quote: Choosing the right food for your dog is TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT.
Unlike humans, dogs do not have the ability to review health information on their own. Our beloved friends rely on us to do what is right for them and feed them the healthiest foods that will allow them to live the healthiest, longest life possible. In order to choose the best food for your dog, it is extremely important to EDUCATE YOURSELF as much as possible about dog nutrition. By learning about the elements of nutrition your dog requires to be strong and healthy and fight disease, you can rest assured that you are giving your furry friend the best possible foods. Our dogs give so much to us. Loyalty. Companionship. Protection. They deserve the very best we can give them back in return. End of quote. I give you this exactly word for word (with no additions by me!) The only thing I did to it was instead of underlining the 4 words that you see in capital letters--that's what I did-capitalized instead of underlining!

GOOD LUCK!!

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

Sorry if I sounded snide to you. I was just very confused because it seemed to me that you were emphasizing how disgusting meat can be, and how even humans shouldn't eat it...

I shall read up, I just hope science is included not just opinion.

This was a good thread, because RottOrNot, no matter what you decide it sound's like you will be researching different thing's and that's really what it's all about.. You love your pup and you want to do what's best and if you find that raw is not for you, there are good dog food's out there, you just have to find them because you'll never see a commercial on TV for them, don't know why though...

I do have to add that you can't alway's go by science because for instance, Homeopathy, which I use is a science and most people will not believe it, trust it or accept it. I've been to allopathic vet's who have shot it down, but yet it saved my pup's life.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by RottOrNot

Sorry if I sounded snide to you. I was just very confused because it seemed to me that you were emphasizing how disgusting meat can be, and how even humans shouldn't eat it...

I shall read up, I just hope science is included not just opinion.

Hey! I just was looking at the threads I started in here a few months ago. If you will go to my profile page--click on statistics--click on Find all THREADS (not POSTS) and pick these: Because you love your dog; German Shepherds-Nutrition; Good Web Addresses; and even Bloat in Dogs. There are a lot of web addresses there (in blue print) that you can click on. If you take the time to read all the posts in the above mentioned threads, esp. (I think, if I remember right) the one titled If You Love Your Dog--you will see the controversy--pros and cons from some of the forum members. Lol, I always have to check that posting by Orangedog twice as the beginning is actually a quote before he states what he has to say----Don't understand why there aren't the quote 'markings' there ?