I am an advocate of a raw diet for dogs and cats. And with the new puppy Katydid joining our lives, I see an immediate change and improvement with a raw diet! She is a lovely, five-month old little girl. When I recently met one of her sister's, I was struck by the difference in the two girl's coats! Katydid's coat gleamed and shone! When I mentioned this to a friend, she said it was the raw diet I feed - even after only two weeks there was an obvious difference in appearance!

Chipper, our other smooth collie (and inspiration for Chipper's Dog Treats) has been fed a raw diet for six years. The only kibble Chipper eats is when he is successful stealing the cats kibble!

Anyway, if Katydid's coat has been transformed in two weeks, just imagine how the rest of her will improve with the raw diet. She is progressing in gaining height and weight, and is learning an incredible amount quite rapidly - more so than most people have noticed before. I recommend to all the raw diet for dogs.

so pleased for you (and your dogs catherine) i converted to raw a couple of months ago but my old girl is 17 and has a tumour on her mouth which the vet says cant be operated on but she is so much livelier her coat is shinier and she seems happy enough although she no longer wants to go on long walks .... but she loves her food and i believe her improvement is due to her natural diet so i hope all pups are weaned onto a raw diet as im sure it is much healthier for them. i only wish id found out years ago. anyway good luck and have lots of fun with them.

jeff

very good,I think so

[mrandrei]

Raw food diet is really beneficial to a dog. Among the many great benefits of a raw, natural diet are: white teeth, fresh breath, bloat prevention, great health, etc.

Raw food is good, but if you're going to go raw, you should do it all the way- fresh, whole, raw meats, not raw meat processed into dog food. Any dog of any age can eat raw.

http://www.rawdogranch.com/rawdietbasics...

thanks for telling me that raw food is best for my dog - can you tell me actuslly what it is and how much do i feed.

i am waiting for my pup and she will be a Standard Schnauzer when i get her later in the year.

would love to know what to feed from 8 weeks through to adult.

please advise what you give as "treats" surely not the packaged stuff i have seen advertised in packets.

by treats i refer to rewards for learning obedience etc.

appreciate any help you can give me - all will be valued

regards

peter

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by peterseaford

thanks for telling me that raw food is best for my dog - can you tell me actuslly what it is and how much do i feed.

i am waiting for my pup and she will be a Standard Schnauzer when i get her later in the year.

would love to know what to feed from 8 weeks through to adult.

please advise what you give as "treats" surely not the packaged stuff i have seen advertised in packets.

by treats i refer to rewards for learning obedience etc.

appreciate any help you can give me - all will be valued

regards

peter

One of the best places to learn about raw feeding is to go to this site:
BARF for Beginners - Most Frequently Asked Questions Just click on the blue lettering! You can also put words in your browser like dogs/raw feeding---there are many good sites on this subject and you will get addresses easily once you start searching. As far as treats go--you prob. don't want raw stuff as it needs to be kept cold so you could just give bits of cooked chicken (get rid of the skin and fat) or hamburger--any cooked cut-up meat or if you have a dehydrater----you could dry liver pcs---best to use organic liver as the liver is where all the toxins in the body end up at! You could make your own biscuits and keep the surplus frozen or refrigerated as there would be no preservatives to stop them from spoiling. The trouble with biscuits is that you would be using grains (flour is wheat too). Grains are not the greatest thing to give a dog--for one thing a lot of dogs are allergic to them. Oatmeal is one grain that is not so bad. And if it was possible for you to use raw treats (like you'd have to keep them cold and also freeze after so long ---just like you take care of the meat you have for yourself--not let spoil) Some good ideas for raw treats--little meatballs from hamburger or ground turkey or ground chicken--you could mix in a few 'pulverized' raw veggies like carrots or broccoli--mix it up like you would if you were making meat loaf and then make marble sized meatballs. I guess you know that onions, grapes, raisins, chocolate are 'poison' to feed to a dog??!! There are a lot more things too that you should learn about---check out on the web---Put dogs/poisonous foods (as well as plants,etc. When you feed raw veggies--they have to be ground real, real fine as dogs can not break down the cellulose walls of the veggies and thus would get no nutrition from them. I use a mini-food processor--scrape the sides down several times to get a real fine consistency. You will need to study on raw feeding to learn how to make a balanced diet and about some supplementing. The internet is a good place to hunt this info down. You might want to go back into the dog health and nutrition of this forum and will prob. find info there from members previous posts--I prob. have posted quite a bit myself in the past 6 months or so! It sounds like you will have enough time to 'bone' up on 'stuff' since you aren't getting your dog right a way--which is good!

thanks very much - appreciate your information

regards peter

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by peterseaford

thanks very much - appreciate your information

regards peter

Thought of a couple more things----When (if) making the meatballs--you could beat up an egg or 2(depending how big a batch you are making) and add to your meat mixture--and of course you don't have to add anything to the meat---just make plain meatballs but adding the veggies is a good way to get some veggies in to the dog--AND don't forget that onions are not for dogs!!! You know, you could make these little meatballs and bake in oven too and give them cooked---not sure how long to bake---depends on size of the meatballs and if you are using carrots--takes longer, but I suppose the carrots wouldn't have to be cooked all the way through. I think I would use a temp of 350 degrees but you'll have to experiment--might work at 400 degrees--It would be quicker and prob. firmer--just keep an eye on them and not let them burn. Store in refrigerator and/or freezer. I use to cook home-prepared meals for my dogs before I started feeding raw and one of the meals I made a lot---a meatloaf but that is why I can't be more specific about the meat balls as I didn't make them so don't know the time or temp for them.

About studying on feeding raw---You can find titles of books and the author on internet and call your library to see if they can find these books (They look up on their computer (if they don't have that particular book on hand) to
find a library (all over the country) that has it and they deliver it to your library via a traveling library van. Leave your phone # with your library and they can call you when it arrives or/and you can keep calling them to see if it is in yet. This is free of charge for this service--should be, it is here! I have many books--actually I will give you titles and authors of some to look for. This 1st one is 11 yrs. old as are most of the books I have BUT are still very good--and this 1st one is (at least a month or so ago) for sale on Ebay or Amazon.com---You can buy used or discontinued books on these sites very, very cheap--some as low as a couple dollars or 3. 1st book-Earl Mindell's nutrition & health for Dogs (1998) 2.Natural Dog Care by Celeste Yarnall,PH.D
(1998) 3.Keep Your Dog Healthy the Natural Way by Pat Lazarus (1999)
4.Reigning Cats & Dogs by Pat McKay (1998) 5.Give Your Dog A Bone by Dr. Ian Billinghurst (1993) You can try putting words in browser like Books/dogs/feeding raw etc. to find more books to tell your library to get for you. I might come back in here at a later time to tell you some if I can find where I have them written down (which is almost like looking for a needle in a haystack here!) Ask for books about dogs/raw feeding---natural nutrition--While you are at it try to get a book or 2 on the bad commercial dog food--There is a book called (on the order of) Foods Your Pets Die For --very good book and if you find it---This author has other good books too. Lal, I got to go feed my 2 dogs their breakfast right now. Will be talking to you again, I am sure. Glad you are going raw--as far as I am concerned--almost the only way to go!

[chevy & karen]

I like the meatball idea......

OK, here's the problem I have. Hair is dead. It has no blood supply, no nerves, it's as dead as a toe nail. The only place there is any blood supply is at the very base of the follicles, where new hair is produced. Once the hair emerges above the skin, the only thing that's going to have an effect on it is topical applications of conditioner. So how could a raw diet produce such a dramatic effect in only two weeks? The pup did not grow a whole new coat in two weeks!

Personally, I will never feed my dog raw meat. It's not safe for me to eat raw meat, and I certainly am not going to feed my dog foods that aren't safe for me to eat.

Don't be fooled. Dogs can and do get salmonella, campylobacter, e-coli, and a host of parasitic diseases from eating raw meat.

And don't be fooled by the claims that it's the natural diet of wild canids, either. Wild dogs and wolves don't live very long.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by vetgroomer

OK, here's the problem I have. Hair is dead. It has no blood supply, no nerves, it's as dead as a toe nail. The only place there is any blood supply is at the very base of the follicles, where new hair is produced. Once the hair emerges above the skin, the only thing that's going to have an effect on it is topical applications of conditioner. So how could a raw diet produce such a dramatic effect in only two weeks? The pup did not grow a whole new coat in two weeks!

Personally, I will never feed my dog raw meat. It's not safe for me to eat raw meat, and I certainly am not going to feed my dog foods that aren't safe for me to eat.

Don't be fooled. Dogs can and do get salmonella, campylobacter, e-coli, and a host of parasitic diseases from eating raw meat.

And don't be fooled by the claims that it's the natural diet of wild canids, either. Wild dogs and wolves don't live very long.

I do not wish to get into another 'session' about the raw diet being good or bad---like the session a while back!! And I don't know why the coat looks better after only 2 wks but I do know when that new coat does come in, If you are feeding raw right, it does make a better, healthier coat---I have my 2 dogs as proof of that!! And the person who is getting a schnauzer will benefit even more because a schnauzer is prone to a lot of allergies and being able to control the diet (like not using grains) will help in this area too! Another reason for a better coat is feeding some raw egg also. As far as feeding raw not being safe--If the dog is healthy it should not have problems (Of course there are exceptions--but how many!!?? and how do you know how healthy the immune system was at the time)? And like I said before raw is prob. safer than the crap that is sold as most commercial dog foods---I mentioned all the salmonella that was found in this stuff---moldy grains have been found also as well as other bad stuff(some pretty deadly too and some dogs have died because of it!!) Then there are all the animals that have died from kidney failure this past year or so--esp. cats, but many dogs too.---from the 'poison' that got put in so much dog food and there have been a lot of recalls on many brands. You do not know what is in the commercial dog food being sold. It all goes back to greed on the part of the manufacturers--You can not trust them--They do not care about your dog, period!! They (most of them) are only empty calories with no nutrition to keep your dog healthy---After so many years of eating this crap--the immune system has been compromised and the dog starts 'shutting down'--gets sick--gets diseases---liver goes bad as well as kidneys (over-taxed). Some dogs even get so they won't eat this crap after a while--not getting any satisfaction from it!! And it has been stated that a dog should live about 10 more years then they do--and it all started with the selling of crappy dogfood!! And wild dogs and wolves die young from many causes!! I have one question for you Vetgroomer (make that 2) What kind of dog food is sold at the vet's office where you do your grooming? And have you read the facts that have been proven about what all is in this commercial dogfood? You have your opinions and I have mine and I do not wish to 'fight' with you!!

I'm not trying to fight with anyone. I just have my own opinion, based on what I've observed over the years.

To answer your questions, we sell I-Vet foods. And we've researched this food what it contains and more importantly what it doesn't contain.

I've read a great deal of conflicting "facts" about what has been "proven" to be contained in commercial dog foods. Just because someone writes something down in a book or on a web site does not make it true. One has to dig a bit deeper if one wants the "facts."

There's also another alternative to feeding raw meat if you don't want to feed commercial dog foods. Cook it.

[chevy & karen]

Up until 2005 I did'nt know anything about pet food. I was feeding Beneful, pupperoni's and other grocery store crap with topping's (human food on top). I did'nt even know there were other kind's of pet food. Once I started chevy on raw food I did see alot of change's, especially in his hair, teeth and ear problem's. I can't explain it but it did'nt take long at all for his hair to look very healthy.

Anyway, chevy was 5 at the time and he was'nt crazy about the raw food at all. He would only eat Shelton's Free Range raw ground turkey and the chicken neck's I would have to disguise for him to eat them and usually found part's of them laying around the house. His Holistic vet kept pushing me to make him get use to it and we kept at it for the better part of a year. Then I stopped the raw bone part of the diet because he just did'nt like it. The Holistic was ok with me giving him the raw ground turkey mixed with Wellness dry food so we stayed there for awhile.

Now chev is 9 year's old and he will still eat the raw ground turkey from time to time but I cook for him now. He want's his food cooked so I usually cook something big for him the beginning of the week ( chicken breast's, turkey breast's, roast beef, etc.) and it last's most of the week. His veggies are still raw (grated and mixed in his food) and he still get's some Wellness mixed in.

I don't know. Maybe chevy was just too old and set in his way's when we started the raw, he will still eat the raw shelton's but that's it and I just can't force it on him.

Anyway, back to the hair. I can't explain it but it did look good and it happened very fast. I hate to think of chevy not ever being here but maybe with my next pup I will have better luck with the raw.

Oh, his hair still look's ok, but it looked better when he was eating the raw only diet, and his teeth are still good, when he started the raw he had peridontal disease and lost his four front top teeth, between the raw food and some homeopathic remedies the peridontal disease was cured but the ear problem's come back from time to time. I treat them with Homeopathic medicine, but he love's to eat and he just does'nt want the raw and at this stage of his life I just want him to be happy. So that's my take on the raw. Physically he did very well on it but he just did'nt like it.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by vetgroomer

I'm not trying to fight with anyone. I just have my own opinion, based on what I've observed over the years.

To answer your questions, we sell I-Vet foods. And we've researched this food what it contains and more importantly what it doesn't contain.

I've read a great deal of conflicting "facts" about what has been "proven" to be contained in commercial dog foods. Just because someone writes something down in a book or on a web site does not make it true. One has to dig a bit deeper if one wants the "facts."

There's also another alternative to feeding raw meat if you don't want to feed commercial dog foods. Cook it.

Coincidents are happening to me 'right regularly' lately! 1st off this morning I went into my emails to see if any new posts to the posts I have posted to---and to be honest, Vetgroomer, I had myself kind of braced 'cause I knew there would be a reply from you and I was kind of dreading it--but you somewhat surprised me! (nicely) I saw what you had posted and was going to get to a reply but figured I might as well look at all my new emails 1st. The coincident: I get a newsletter from Happy Healthy Dogs/Brigitte Smith. This time the main subject was supplements and she gave a link to a Dr. Andrew Jones DVM who of course is selling supplements, but he also offered a free download of a special report on Dog Food. I downloaded it and there are a lot of interesting things---and not just on dog food--and I think he is a holistic vet (from the way the report mentioned a lot of things), and if I recall right did not even mention raw food but seemed to be for home-cooked food for the dog. Wish you would see this report as I think you might get something out of it---as I said not all about dog food in general. Now--I am not good at all the 'good/easier things you can do with your computer---so here I am (hours) handcopying as much as I can. There are 42 pgs. It is suppose to be emailable but don't trust it to work--It is in the adobe mode w/the 'handgrabbing kind of curser' and I've had problems with this kind of 'set-up' before in trying to copy it. If anyone wants me to try and email it--I would need your email address and it is long-42 pgs (Just so you know!)
And/or I can give this to put in your browser. Like I said, I'm not good at some of this computer 'stuff' and think you will have to try to find the right place to get this download amongst this link: Dr. Jones' Ultimate Canine Health Formula: Nutritional Supplement For Dogs
another address given that might bring you to finding this report (ebook) is:
http://www.the dogsupplement.com/subscribeduch/ Hope it works!

I do plan on posting some of the hand-copied 'stuff'--Lol--didn't copy this all by hand not to use some of it! One thing mentioned : 150 brands of pet food was recalled in that 1997 big mess. And darn--thought I had copied on how many dogs had died because of that poisoned deal that shut down their kidneys----well if you find the ebook you can check it out.

About home-cooked: I use to feed cooked and think it is the next best to raw. I had a tendency (and afraid a lot of people prob. do this too) to feed too much carbs. and grains, esp. rice (brown rice, mind you!) It bulked up the meal and was cheaper to add too damn much of this pretty useless grain--but it added volume and calories!! Not good to add so much carbs--Diabetes
(which I myself have) for one thing. I've learned much since those days so prob. wouldn't do that again and I may end up going back to home-cooked. My dogs are getting older (10 and 11--old for cocker spaniels--life expectency--( At least these days) for them is about 14 yrs. BUT NOT UNTIL (IF) I FEEL I NEED TO. But if I think they could handle the warm and easier to chew cooked foods--may do it later.

Vetgroomer, you see a lot of dog's coats in your grooming--You must see coats that are better than others. It would be interesting to do a survey of sorts and ask what your clients feed, including if they supplement in any way and exactly what those supplements are, etc.

[chevy & karen]

Vetgroomer, you see a lot of dog's coats in your grooming--You must see coats that are better than others. It would be interesting to do a survey of sorts and ask what your clients feed, including if they supplement in any way and exactly what those supplements are, etc.[/QUOTE]

As one who went from junk to raw to home cooked with little raw I would be interested also and even more than that. I'm a cocker owner also and would really like to know about the cocker's with ear issues as to what they are fed, raw, commercial or home prepared.

Corky/Max if your cocker's have no ear issues on their diet I would think about switching off of it..

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by chevy & karen

Vetgroomer, you see a lot of dog's coats in your grooming--You must see coats that are better than others. It would be interesting to do a survey of sorts and ask what your clients feed, including if they supplement in any way and exactly what those supplements are, etc.

As one who went from junk to raw to home cooked with little raw I would be interested also and even more than that. I'm a cocker owner also and would really like to know about the cocker's with ear issues as to what they are fed, raw, commercial or home prepared.

Corky/Max if your cocker's have no ear issues on their diet I would think about switching off of it..[/QUOTE]

Sorry Karen--not sure I understand about the ear issues and switching diets??

[chevy & karen]

corky and max must not have them, I'm happy for you. They itch him at time's terribly and are very red and waxy.. I can clear them up but it never fails, it alway's comes back.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by chevy & karen

corky and max must not have them, I'm happy for you. They itch him at time's terribly and are very red and waxy.. I can clear them up but it never fails, it alway's comes back.

Sorry I still don't get it--the way I am interpretting
is that if they have ear problems I should get off the raw diet
BUT they do get ear problems---mainly because cockers are prone because of the long floppy ears that for one thing , don't get enough air--nice moist environment for problems! I have used Mometamax (prescription only) on Corky (the mixed breed) but Max has had his problems too. I don't like using the Mometamax as it has ingredients that aren't good for the dog. But if it is the type of infection--fungal and whatever--prob. won't go away unless you use it. And I have had it come back too. If it is mites or just need to keep cleaning ears to try to avoid bigger problems---Vet actually gave me a home remedy-equal parts of white vinegar, water and rubbing alcohol, but if ears are sore from scratching, etc. another vet LOL, same office, said to only use 1 part vinegar to 2 parts water as the vinegar and alcohol would hurt because of the soreness. I got a couple of 'droppers'--nice size, free from the pharmacy at Walmart that I fill from a small glass bottle that I store the mixture in--don't like plastic because of the vinegar maybe leeching bad stuff from the plastic---wouldn't you think it could?--Won't buy vinegar in mostly what they sell plastic bottles either! And some ear problems are caused by allergies too--never really checked out this to see if it could be a problem with my 2 dogs.
Came back in here to add---You should use this home remedy a couple time a week to clean their ears---to try and keep 'things' from starting up! Just fill up the ear with the dropper---Don't let dog shake his head yet! After adding the solution--rub ear good to distribute the solution down in good. After dog shakes head a few times---wipe (tissue or cotton ball) anything that he may of shaken lose from his inner ear flap.

[chevy & karen]

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

Sorry I still don't get it--the way I am interpretting
is that if they have ear problems I should get off the raw diet
BUT they do get ear problems---mainly because cockers are prone because of the long floppy ears that for one thing , don't get enough air--nice moist environment for problems! I have used Mometamax (prescription only) on Corky (the mixed breed) but Max has had his problems too. I don't like using the Mometamax as it has ingredients that aren't good for the dog. But if it is the type of infection--fungal and whatever--prob. won't go away unless you use it. And I have had it come back too. If it is mites or just need to keep cleaning ears to try to avoid bigger problems---Vet actually gave me a home remedy-equal parts of white vinegar, water and rubbing alcohol, but if ears are sore from scratching, etc. another vet LOL, same office, said to only use 1 part vinegar to 2 parts water as the vinegar and alcohol would hurt because of the soreness. I got a couple of 'droppers'--nice size, free from the pharmacy at Walmart that I fill from a small glass bottle that I store the mixture in--don't like plastic because of the vinegar maybe leeching bad stuff from the plastic---wouldn't you think it could?--Won't buy vinegar in mostly what they sell plastic bottles either! And some ear problems are caused by allergies too--never really checked out this to see if it could be a problem with my 2 dogs.

I did'nt have ear issue's with chev when he was on his raw diet, is what I meant. Sorry, did'nt mean to confuse. I tried about everything there is for them but seem to have the best luck with the Homeopathic remedy Sulphur and bathing them in a solution of Hypercal and distilled water.. Even just the Calendula and distilled water mixed will soothe them tremendously...

But no no, the raw diet actually helped chev's ear's... Now that he's off it or almost off it, it's back to ear issue's again.