Since the dog was a puppy she developed dandruff on her skin. We heard that olive oil could be good for this so we started adding olive oil to her skin for a while. This worked for a bit but then it continued. The issues goes beyond dandruff as she then gets scabs on her skin and is constantly trying to lick her skin (for some type of relief?). The skin and her breath then starts to get some odour. She is almost 3 years of age and from a breeder.

Things tried with some temporary relief but then it comes back:
- olive oil
- shampoos from vet
- medication from vet
- changing foods
- using organic food (saw good relief for a while but then it started up again)
- tried different flavour or organic food (haven't been using for long yet)

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas - we have tried so much that we thought reaching for ideas might help!

[pinsnpugs]

Have you contacted the breeder to see if she is familiar with this condition? She may know what it is and what works best to treat it.

Also, your vet can do a skin scraping to pinpoint her exact allergies so that they can be eliminated/avoided.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by CockerSpanielinFamily

Since the dog was a puppy she developed dandruff on her skin. We heard that olive oil could be good for this so we started adding olive oil to her skin for a while. This worked for a bit but then it continued. The issues goes beyond dandruff as she then gets scabs on her skin and is constantly trying to lick her skin (for some type of relief?). The skin and her breath then starts to get some odour. She is almost 3 years of age and from a breeder. Please answer this question: Does she scratch because of itchiness or just licks it!!! This answer can rule out certain diseases (and there are a lot to look into!!)

Things tried with some temporary relief but then it comes back:
- olive oil
- shampoos from vet
- medication from vet
- changing foods
- using organic food (saw good relief for a while but then it started up again)
- tried different flavour or organic food (haven't been using for long yet)

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas - we have tried so much that we thought reaching for ideas might help!

It sounds like your vet has seen your dog-YES?? Did he tell you what it was---could be many different kinds of skin disease!!! As far as the olive oil goes--Are you sure you were suppose to put it on the skin?? I would think maybe it was suppose to be added to the food. If you went to the vet---Did he rule out seborrhea--for one possibility? I have a lot of info in my home vet book on many skin diseases----too much to copy--esp. right now--I am strapped for time--Have a garden I have to get to--much work and it is going to rain pretty soon plus going to get very hot and muggy for the next 4-5 days--too hot to be out in it! Will try to post on some of what info I have a little later in next couple of days. I did not have time to go check things out on the web but here are some words to put in your browser and you will prob. find a lot of info there!! ----seborrhea/dogs (by the way my vet book says it is seen most often in American Cocker Spaniels) sebaceous adenitis/dogs---- hypothyroidism/dogs---cheyletiella mange/dogs--This is also called walking dandruff----food allergy/dogs. I could give more but right now really have to run. Will say I have cocker spaniels (2) and have never had a problem with their skin/hair. They are 10 and 11 yrs old. I never give them commercial dog food. It has always been home-cooked or raw. And cockers are noted for having skin problems----Maybe you need a better diet! Also if you have seen a vet and he has not been of much help--maybe you need a dif. vet!!! Holistic prefered!! Talk to you later--check out the web please!!

[CorkyMax]

It is raining so I am back! Having done a little reading (web included) and rereading what you posted---You stated the diet change seemed to work for a while and then it came back. From what I have found out so far---some of these problems will come back (never really went a way as the mite or whatever it is goes through a cycle and may not be seem to be causing a problem when it is going thru a stage of this cycle. Am going to leave some links here for you to click on. Please read these article well as a lot to remember and you may have to do some 'detective work' to hopefully find an answer and a 'cure.' Will have to keep coming back in here as I add more info (and links). Will be copying and pasting as I find them. Before I do ---Want to say this--You need to boost the immune system up and I hope you will go back to a good food so your dog can get the proper nutrition it needs in order to do this!! Adding vitamins and supplements will help too. I would certainly give Omega 3 oil (fish oil). And don't expect to see results right away--It usually takes time for these things to work--could be 'fast' but may take 2-3 months! Here is the 1st link:
Demodectic Mange
MORE:
Food Allergies
Just letting you know--The above link is 'advertising' Hill's dog food---I am totally against all commercial dog foods--I would go to the home cooked way that they mention in this article.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_itch_relief.html

Don't know why this appeared like this--May try putting the address in your browser 'manually'??!!

[CorkyMax]

(ALSO CALLED "SCABIES") This is Sarcoptic Mange.

THE ORGANISM AND HOW IT LIVES



SARCOPTES SCABEI


Sarcoptic mange is the name for the skin disease caused by infection with the Sarcoptes scabei mite. Mites are not insects; instead they are more closely related to spiders. They are microscopic and cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Adult Sarcoptes scabei mites live 3-4 weeks in the host’s skin. After mating, the female burrows into the skin depositing 3-4 eggs in the tunnel behind her. The eggs hatch in 3-10 days producing a larvae which, in turn, move about on the skin surface eventually molting into a "nymphal" stage and finally into an adult. The adults move on the surface of the skin where they mate and the cycle begins again with the female burrowing and laying eggs.



Female sarcoptes mite burrowing in the skin and
leaving a trail of eggs behind her. Her presence
generates an inflamatory response in the skin
similar to an allergic response. (KEEP SCROLLING----> Big gap here!













APPEARANCE OF THE DISEASE

The motion of the mite in and on the skin is extremely itchy. Further, the presence of burrowed mites and their eggs generates a massive allergic response in the skin which is even more itchy.


Dog with dematitis problem typical of sacrcoptic mange.

Note: Many dogs do not develop the classical ear margin crusts until later in the disease.




Mites prefer hairless skin thus leaving the ear flaps, elbows and abdomen at highest risk for the red, scaly itchy skin that characterizes sarcoptic mange. It should be noted that this pattern of itching is similar to that found with airborne allergies (atopy) as well as with food allergies. Frequently, before attempting to sort out allergies, a veterinarian will simply treat a patient for sarcoptic mange as a precaution. It is very easy to be led down the wrong path (pursuing allergy aggressively) if one considers sarcoptic mange too unusual or unlikely.

As the infection progresses, eventually most of the dog's body will be involved. Classically, though, the picture begins on the ears (especially the ear margins), the elbows, and abdomen.

The term "Scabies" refers to mite infestations by either Sarcoptes scabei or other mite species closely related to Sarcoptes scabei. While Sarcoptes scabei can infect humans and cats, it tends not to persist on these hosts. When people (including some veterinarians) refer to "sarcoptic mange" or "scabies" in the cat, they are usually referring to infection by Notoedres cati, a mite closely related to Sarcoptes scabei. In these feline cases, it would be more correct to refer to "notoedric mange," though the treatment for both mites is the same. Notoedric mange, in cats, generally produces facial itching and scabbing.

For more information on notoedric mange, click here.

HOW THE INFECTION IS SPREAD

Sarcoptic mange mites are usually spread by direct contact from host to host. While mites can live off of a host for days to weeks depending on their life stage, they are only infective for 36 hours which means that environmental decontamination is generally not necessary.

Mite infections on humans are self-limiting (i.e., they go away on their own) as the mite is not able to complete its life cycle on the "wrong" host. The condition is extremely itchy, though, while it lasts. The mites are most active where skin is warm (in bed and where clothing is snug).

IF A SARCOPTIC MANGE ANIMAL IS PRESENT IN THE HOME,
IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO WASH ANY BEDDING IN
THE WASHING MACHINE (OR REPLACE WITH NEW BEDDING),
AND WASH ANY COLLARS OR HARNESSES.

DIAGNOSIS

SKIN SCRAPING – Classically, mite infection is diagnosed by scraping the skin surface with a scalpel blade and examining the skin debris under a microscope for the presence of mites. If the mite’s presence is confirmed by skin scraping, then one knows immediately the cause of the itching and need not be concerned about allergy possibilities or other diseases and the condition can be addressed with confidence.

When an animal with sarcoptic mange scratches itself, it breaks open the tunnels that the mites have burrowed into and the mites are killed (though the itch persists due to toxins in the skin). The result is that the mites can be very difficult to confirm by skin scraping tests. (Probably mites are confirmed in 50% or fewer of sarcoptic mange cases).

MEDICATION TRIAL - Since negative test results do not rule out mite infection, a "Maybe Mange" test is frequently performed. This consists simply of treating for sarcoptic mange and observing for resolution of the signs within 2-4 weeks. Treatment is very simple and highly successful in most cases so it is fairly easy to rule out sarcoptic mange with a trial course of medication. See below for treatment options.

BIOPSY - Mange mites are rarely seen on a skin biopsy sample, though, if the sample is read out by a pathologist who specializes in reading skin samples, the type of inflammation seen in the sample can be highly suggestive of sarcoptic mange. As a general rule, if skin is biopsied, it is best for the veterinarian to request that a dermatohistopathologist read the sample.

TREATMENT

While sarcoptic mange is difficult to diagnose definitively, it is fairly easy to treat and a number of choices are available.

REMEMBER, ALL DOGS IN A HOUSEHOLD WHERE
SARCOPTIC MANGE HAS BEEN DIAGNOSED
SHOULD BE TREATED.

Sorry, I purposely omitted the crap they gave as the treatment--potent stuff--Need to get medication from a vet, lol--hopefully a smart vet---Preferably a holistic vet!!

[CorkyMax]

Demodectic Mange: What to Do When Your Dog Has It
Demodectic mange (Demodex canis), also called Red Mange is a type of skin disease caused by mites, more particularly the demodex canis mites. Veterinarians say that this disease is most common in puppies aged 3 to 9 months old.


There are different reasons why puppies contract this disease. Oftentimes, it is due to the failure or weakness of the dog's immune system. Studies show that the disease may also be hereditary.

Demodectic mange is not as severe as sarcoptic mange. Puppies that have acquired the disease may even spontaneously recover from it as they mature and their immune systems get stronger. Then again, the transition from a small puppy to an adult dog may bring about a demodectic mange attack in some breeds of dogs.

The change in a dog's habits may trigger the disease. It may also occur if there is a need to change from one living area to another. Sometimes, your pet's system is not prepared for certain environmental changes or for the slightest alterations to its hygienic practices. These are the instances when the dogs are most prone to demodectic mange.




Puppies suffering from demodectic mange usually have reddened feet or faces. The actual parts where the skin disorder affects your dog will be exposed. That means that there is total hair loss around those areas.


Demodectic dog mange may progress from just a patch in the dog's ear and then cover the entire surface of their skin. This will definitely happen if the proper medications are not provided to the dog immediately. When the disease has spread all over, it becomes much harder for a veterinarian to control it.

The main difference between demodectic mange and sarcoptic mange is itchiness.

Demodectic mange doesn't itch at all. Sarcoptic mange, on the other hand, is very itchy, forcing your dog to scratch all over. Demodectic mange may not be itchy, but it is a discomfort to your dog just the same. Additionally, demodectic mange is not contagious.

Generally speaking, demodectic mange is not a life-threatening disease. However, you still need to take your dog to the vet once you see the symptoms. Demodectic mange is very similar to sarcoptic mange and it is impossible to tell the two diseases apart.

Let the vet perform the proper diagnosis so that the right course of treatment will be carried out. This is the best possible thing that you can do for your dog.

[CorkyMax]

"Red Mange - Demodectic Mange"

On the Internet Bulletin Boards, I am constantly bombarded by questions relating to "Red Mange" which is properly known as "Demodectic Mange". On doing a little research, I discovered that this is the 6th ranking skin problem in dogs. The condition is caused by a strange little cigar-shaped mite. Fortunately cats are not troubled by demodex mites so "cat people" can relax. People, dogs, swine, sheep, goats, horses, cows and possibly other animals all have individual species that inhabit the normal hair follicles and oil glands in the skin. In other words, you have "critters" camping out in your hair follicles right now as you read this Newsletter. In normal skin the immune system of the host prevents the mites from reaching large numbers. They are always being held in check. In young animals with developing immune systems or in old debilitated animals the situation can get out of control. The mites are allowed to proliferate and cause the skin disease often referred to as "Red Mange".

"Red Mange" the Disease
When the immune system is compromised for any reason such as when a dog is a juvenile, short haired, malnourished or in poor condition the mites can become numerous in hair follicles.

The "dry form" of the disease (75% of cases) usually occurs in pups 3 to 9 months of age. It starts as scaly, rough areas on the skin with slight hair loss. It centers on the fore quarters with lesions first on the head and neck and then on the forelimbs. The early lesions resemble a "rug burn" hence the name "red mange". Occasionally the skin can become hyperpigmented and turn black - "black mange".

The "pustular form" (10 to 20% of cases) occurs as the condition advances. Opportunistic bacterea such as Staphlococcus or Streptococcus species colonize the affected areas and the condition spreads over large portions of the body. At this stage of the disease, the skin becomes greasy, red, swollen and scabby and has a characteristic "mousy odor". Itchiness from the secondary bacterial infection occurs. The poor dog appears "mangy and ugly. Lymph nodes enlarge due to the systemic spread of the mites and bacteria. From there, the mites and bacteria can enter the blood stream and affect other organs. If allowed to progress, the condition may become fatal due to the overwhelming sepsis.

Diagnosis
Diagnosis is accomplished by deep skin scraping in several affected sites. The skin is pinched up to squeeze mites out of the hair follicles, mineral oil is then applied and the skin is scraped down until lightly bleeding. The material scraped up is placed on a microscope slide and is examined for the presence of mites. If large numbers of Demodex mites are present and the dog has the signs listed above a diagnosis is made. If no mites are found and the signs are present then another scraping needs to be done since the mites are often difficult to find if the skin is thickened and severely irritated. Sometimes a skin biopsy must be taken to find the mites.

The life cycle of Demodex Mites
As can be seen in the image below, Demodex mites complete their entire life-cycle in the hair follicles or on the surface of the skin. It is thought that they are transmitted to puppies by direct contact with an infected dam. Eggs are laid >> they hatch to larva >> larva molt to become nymphs >> nymphs molt to become adults.



How is Demodectic Mange treated?
Treatment is often unrewarding - at best it is only about 70% successful. This is because if a hereditary condition or other systemic illness continues to depress the immune system the mites can never be erradicated. Many times, young animals must be treated four to six times until the immune system develops with age. Often, entire litters are infected. These dams should not be bred as the condition is heritable.

Treatment involves clipping the hair from the affected areas and then shampooing the skin with a good quality degreasing shampoo. The skin is then rinsed with clear water and towel dried. A dip solution containing amitraz (Tactik or Mitoban®) is then sponged over the entire dog and allowed to air dry. A word of caution: Amitraz can be toxic so protective gloves, eye and face protection should be worn by the person applying the dip. This process is repeated every two weeks until skin scrapings reveal all dead mites. This may take from 4 to 8 treatments. If bacterial infections are present, appropriate antibiotics are also administered. It is very important to not stop treatment too soon. We suggest that the dips be continued on two separate occasions two weeks apart AFTER skin scrapings reveal all dead mites. This ensures a complete kill of all stages of the demodex mite (egg-larva-nymph-adult).

Other treatments include oral Ivomec® which is an injectible cattle wormer. In mild cases this may be curative in itself or may be included in combination with amitraz dips to improve efficacy.

In dogs unresponsive to amitraz or amitraz/Ivomec® treatments, milbemycin oxime has been used with success. This is an expensive medication but very effective.

Treatment is expensive and frustrating
In my own clinical experience, we have been quite successful in curing our affected patients. Since amitraz is toxic we do not dispense the product. We do all the dips "in hospital" after retreiving a skin scraping. All we can do is continue with the scrapings and dips every two weeks until we get scrapings that contain all dead mites. We dip two more times after scrapings are negative. This can run into quite a bit of expense for owners. What happens if the condition reoccurs 6 weeks later? We get screamed at and we go on with the dips until the condition is once again under control. We have seen it reoccur 3 times. The client hated us! But... Today he has his dog and wouldn't give the world for him. To treat Demodectic mange you have to be prepared to "go for broke" and often times it can take you very close to it. We hope breeders who produce puppies with this condition take note and stop breeding these animals. It can be heartbreaking if you discover your new puppy has the "Red Mange".

Can people get Demodectic Mange?
Yes, but not from dogs. Demodex mites are host specific.

Last Words About Demodectic Mange...
Treat for four weeks AFTER skin scrapings reveal all dead mites. Expect reoccurances. Don't breed dogs that have had Demodectic Mange as puppies - you are passing this trait on to other unsuspecting owners. The disease usually is curable if you remain patient.

I am done posting for now!! Let me know if you figure anything out as I need more 'pinpointed' details before attempting to add more----from my vet book---Big job for this one-fingered typer! Any specific questions? Appreciate some feedback please!

You might go to a thread titled Mange in this same forum--This member has some similar issues as you and I have been posting to both of you on this--You may find some more info there!