[tpenning]

I have a little chihuahua, Oliver, that is 14 weeks old and he has started displaying symptoms that something major may be wrong with him. He has started crying out in pain and holding his head backwards (almost touching his spine) as well as body twitching on two different occasions, so far. He will lay still for a while and then cry out in pain. During the entire episode he holds his head backwards. Sometimes his eyes are open and sometimes they are closed. During each time, the episodes have lasted about 5 - 8 hours. The first episode was Wednesday night, the 19th of August and the second episode was this morning, 23 August 2009. He seems to be really tired after each episode, but he is alert and will eat and drink. Not sure what is going on with him....need as much info as possible.

Please help!

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by tpenning

I have a little chihuahua, Oliver, that is 14 weeks old and he has started displaying symptoms that something major may be wrong with him. He has started crying out in pain and holding his head backwards (almost touching his spine) as well as body twitching on two different occasions, so far. He will lay still for a while and then cry out in pain. During the entire episode he holds his head backwards. Sometimes his eyes are open and sometimes they are closed. During each time, the episodes have lasted about 5 - 8 hours. The first episode was Wednesday night, the 19th of August and the second episode was this morning, 23 August 2009. He seems to be really tired after each episode, but he is alert and will eat and drink. Not sure what is going on with him....need as much info as possible.

Please help!

Just replied to your 1st post but have been thinking since about maybe this is some kind of seizure! Your vet might be able to give you a clue as to this possibility!! 5 to 8 hrs !!?? Wow that is a long time--esp. if he is in pain!!!

[Lara's mom]

Is it possible for a seizure to last that long?

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Is it possible for a seizure to last that long?

I wouldn't think so but not sure---Should look it up on the web I guess. Kind of sounds like a seizure of some kind being as it is okay afterwards. Holding the head like that sounds 'involuntary' too.

[CorkyMax]

I am not saying it is a seizure but here is a good link on it: Dr Graves

May come back in here as I gather more info/links

[CorkyMax]

Here is some info from a site:
There are many types of seizures that are commonly seen and if you suspect your dog is or has had a seizure, be sure to discuss it with your veterinarian giving as many details as possible.


Generalized Seizure or Tonic-clonic: The Tonic-clonic seizure has two stages and may come in a mild or Grand Mal version. During the Grand Mal seizure the “tonic” phase is when the dog falls to the ground, rigidly stretches his legs out and loses consciousness. During this time his breathing will also stop. This part of the seizure usually lasts ten to thirty seconds. After this the “clonic” stage begins. It is at this time that owners notice the stereotypical activity that is commonly called a fit.


While the dog is in the clonic stage, he or she will begin any or all of the following symptoms:

1. Paddling of limbs or “running in place”.

2. Jaw movements that look like the dog is trying to chew gum.

3. Pupils in both eyes dilate (become large) and unresponsive.

4. Dog begins salivating or drooling.

5. Dog loses control of bodily functions and begins to urinate or defecate on itself.


In the mild cases of Tonic-clonic seizures there is usually little paddling and no loss of consciousness. Defecation and urination may also not occur.


Petit Mal Seizures have short episodes of the dog being unconscious with instances of muscle tone loss, and blank stares. These types of seizures seem to be very rare in dogs and often require the presence of EEG abnormalities to diagnosis for certainty.


Partial Seizures are odd things where the seizure activities such as the leg paddling, muscle spasms, neck and head bending or the main part of the body and facial muscle spasms only occur in one part of the body. These types of seizures can worsen until they appear to be Grand Mal or Mild Tonic-clonic but the difference is how the seizure began. Both Tonic-clonic types seem to be overall body from the start but the partials may just start at the face or one hip.


Status Epilepticus type seizures can be life threatening. They can appear as one continuous seizure that lasts more than thirty minutes or in a repetitive loop of seizures with the dog never regaining consciousness. Status epilepticus seizures can occur to dogs with a history of Grand Mal or Mild Tonic-clonic seizures and a diagnosis of epilepsy. They can also occur in dogs with no previous seizure activity but that have had an injury to the brain, exposed to toxins such as massive amounts of chocolate, pesticides and poisons or they can be the result of disease.


Cluster Seizures are very similar to the loop of status epilepticus seizures and each are often diagnosed as the other. The difference between the status epilepticus and the cluster seizures is that the dog actually has short time periods returning to consciousness in between each seizure.


Complex Partial Seizures can also be known as psychomotor or behavioral seizures. Of all the different types of seizures these are the oddest and most bizarre. During a complex partial seizure the dog will demonstrate strange repetitive behaviors such as uncontrollably running in small circles, biting at the air, howling, barking or yipping and even a type of lip-smacking. Others may show signs of attempting to hide for no reason. Other signs can be instances of vomiting, diarrhea, drooling, biting at their sides or flank area and even blindness. Although the dog is awake during these seizures, they are not aware of what they are doing or what is going on around them. Complex partial seizures can last a few minutes, several hours or can turn into generalized tonic-clonic seizures.



Seizures can be caused by a variety of things including both primary and secondary epilepsy. They can also be the result of a blow to the head, calcium deficiencies in nursing mothers, end stage heartworm disease, toxic plants, chemicals, fertilizers and poisonings. There is even evidence that seizures may be have a hereditary factor involved since there are several breeds such as the Belgian Tervureren, German Shepherd, Dachshunds and others that have a higher incidence of them than other purebred dogs.


If a seizure happens to your dog, the important thing is for you to stay calm. This is especially hard to do when your beloved pet is in the throes of what appears to be pure agony but you must be in control of yourself. Keep a calm, quiet tone of voice while you attempt to comfort the dog. If there is furniture, doors or anything that the dog could hurt itself on during the seizure, move it if possible. If you are unable to move the danger, wrap blankets or place pillows between the dog and the object. Slide something soft under the dog’s head but make sure you do not get your face or hands close enough to the mouth risking a possible bite. Dim the lights, turn off any loud music or TV and keep the environment as quiet as possible. Speak to your dog in a low, reassuring voice and perhaps gently stroke his side or hip. Also try to avoid being on the same side as the feet and toenails. As the muscles spasm, so do the legs making the feet curl into actual claws that can rake or gouge your skin.

During these times, take notes to contact your veterinarian with. Note the time of day it occurred, the duration of each seizure and the time in between them if they are recurrent. In addition to these things, the veterinarian will want to know if the dog regained consciousness, urinated or defecated, if the seizure progressed from mere body twitching or hit suddenly. He will probably ask if there had been any possibly triggering events such as fireworks, excessive exercising or playing, strange products or items eaten and how long it was before the dog appeared normal again.


It is very common for dogs that have seizures to have a time period afterwards in which they appear drugged or lost. They may respond to you but in an excessively slow manner. These “drugged” times may vary according to the severity of the seizure. For some dogs they may take only a few minutes or several hours. Seizures are an exhausting experience and most dogs will want to sleep afterwards so allow them to do so. Check in occasionally but don’t disturb their rest.


If this is the first occurrence of a seizure, be sure to contact your veterinarian as soon as possible. Depending on preferences, he or she may take the “wait and see” route or go for a battery of blood tests to check for liver and heart functions, anemia, glucose, calcium, and electrolyte levels. The doctor may even want to run a screen for possible toxins including lead as well as possible x-rays. Teaching facilities and some clinics will even have the ability to do EEGs to check for abnormalities.


Even with all the tests, the results may not give a specific reason for the seizure. Some veterinarians will wait and see if it was a one-time occurrence while others may suggest medications right away. If diagnosed with epilepsy, dogs have an excellent chance of a fairly normal life if given the proper medical care and follow up by the owner.

This is the link for the entire info:What causes seizures in dogs?

[Lunareclipse]

If you find any more info, please post it. We are bringing home a saint bernard next weekend that has epilepsy. She is on phenobarb, but still has seizures. She was fully vetted, but I believe the vet was a moron due to the fact that he overmedicated Luna and then took her off of her meds altogether when she went a few days without seizing. I will take her to my vet as soon as she gets here, but more info will be useful so I can understand most of what the vet tells me and he doesn't have to break it down Barney style for me.

[CorkyMax]

Types of seizures

Partial seizures affect only a small part or one side of the body. These are often caused by a brain lesion.

Generalized seizures affect the whole body and can be divided into two types, grand mal and petit mal. Grand mal seizures are the most common. A patient experiencing a grand mal seizure usually falls on her side and has uncontrollable muscle activity such as kicking her legs as if swimming or paddling. Salivation is profuse and often the patient involuntarily urinates and defecates. The patient is unaware of you, her surroundings, or her own actions. Petit mal seizures do not result in convulsions, but the animal loses consciousness. It may look like the animal just collapsed.

The worst form of seizure is one in which the patient exhibits one or more grand mal episodes without recovering from the first. This patient may actually be in a seizure for hours. This is termed Status Epilepticus and is usually referred to simply as Status. Seizures by themselves are not life threatening unless they progress into Status, in which case medical attention should be sought immediately.





The above paragraph states that this form of seizure could last for hours. (answer to Lara's Mom)

[CorkyMax]

What type of information can the owner provide to help the veterinarian make the diagnosis?

It is helpful if you, the owner, can give your veterinarian answers to the following questions:

What does your pet look like when he is having seizures?
What is the duration of each seizure and how often do they occur?
Are there signs that only appear on one side of your pet (is one side worse than the other)?
Has your pet had a high fever?
Has your pet been exposed to any toxins?
Has your pet experienced any trauma recently or years ago?
Is your pet current on vaccinations?
Has your pet been recently boarded or with other dogs?
Has your pet had any other signs of illness?
Has your pet been running loose in the last several weeks?
What and when does your pet eat?
Has your pet had any behavior changes?
Do the seizures occur in a pattern related to exercise, eating, sleeping, or certain activities?
Does your pet show different signs right before or right after the seizures?

[CorkyMax]

Naturally Treating Epilepsy and Seizure Disorders

Put seizures/dogs in your browser! Will bring up all the links That I have listed above and a couple more that I haven't commented on!!

[CorkyMax]

Was not going to give this link as it is an ad for a book (I think) But it does give a lot of good info----esp. to do with the connection of nutrients, stuff lacking because of some ingredients that are in commercial dog foods that deplete certain minerals (I knew about the lack of magnesium could cause seizures before!---In my book: Earl Mindell's Nutrition & Health for Dogs--Here is the sentence: Convulsive seizures (epilepsy) have been seen in dogs with magnesium deficiency. He lists breeds that are prone to convulsive seizures and Saint Bernard is one of those breeds.
Here is the link mentioned just above; Canine Seizures Breakthroughs
I would also suggest putting magnesium/dogs in your browser! I have not checked it out but should be something there!

Got to go--Want to watch Big Brother!

Okay--I just had to do it---Put magnesium/dogs in my browser!!! Here is one link!!--May have more later: http://us.petboost.com/article.php?id=9

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[CorkyMax]

Another link on magnesium. You will prob. find this article interesting too---LARA'S MOM!

Agilty Dogs Fitness: Magnesium

[Lara's mom]

Interesting article. Thank you. I'm going to do some further research.

[tpenning]

My husband is taking him to the Vet.....will let you know more as I know more.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by tpenning

My husband is taking him to the Vet.....will let you know more as I know more.

So glad to hear this! Hope you get not too bad a news!!!
The poor little guy. Will be thinking about him and hoping for the best.

[tpenning]

Portosystemic Shunts

Oliver is sick!

We have to feed him Prescription Diet to see how he does. May need surgery!

[CorkyMax]

That was news you didn't want to hear, but at least you know what it is now and what needs to be done. I just looked up about it in my home vet book. Do you want me to type what it says--there are about 5 paragraphs. Will quote this part now: Most dogs with congenital liver shunts develop symptoms of hepatic encephalopathy by 6 months of age, although some dogs may not develop symptoms until middle age or older. The diagnosis is confirmed by X~ray studies where contrast dyes are injected into the liver circulation, and by bile acid assays. These studies are available at referral centers. FYI---Hepatic encephalopathy is a type of brain inflammation caused by high levels of ammonia and other toxins in the blood. Ammonia is a by~product of protein metabolism, and is normally removed from the bloodstream by a healthy liver. When the liver is sick, ammonia accumulates to toxic levels and exerts a poisonous effect on the brain.
---Did the vet say anything about keeping an eye on the sibling--Whether it could have the same problem or not? I have no idea if it is hereditary or not??
---Thanks for letting us know so fast---Hope all goes well--Keep us updated.
Do you want the other 4 paragraphs from my vet book?

[lil mutt]

I think you need to bring your dog to the vet especially with his condition now... do not forget to take note of what Corky/Max cited... it can help a lot in diagnosing the problem with your pet.