[jojo180877]

My small terrier bitch Betty had a fight the night before last with a neighbours large rottweiler cross dog, he didn't bite her or anything just growling and jumping and it was split up within 20secs.
Maybe he jumped on her I'm not sure, but she seemed ok that night, the next day she was a bit quiet but she that's not out of the ordinary for her.
I took her for a walk and she wasn't interested and was not her normal self, i went out for a couple of hours and when i came back she was sat down with her rear legs spread out in front and couldn't walk so i rushed her to the emergency vet, the vet said she had no feeling in her rear legs and was paralysed, she gave her 4 injections and told me to pick her up the next day (today) at 7.30am so i could take her to the PDSA for further treatment. I'm not working at the moment so can only take her there. I picked her up and there was no change, the PDSA vet said it didn't look good especially as it has taken longer to paralyse her legs since the incident. and that it maybe a disc problem or nerve damage. I left her at the vets for x-rays to be carried out and had to call them at 3.30pm. When i called they said the x-rays had shown nothing and she was still the same. The only difference was when the vet put more pressure on her toes than normal to see if she had any feeling she did slightly respond and she does urinate and poo on her own even though she probably cant feel it, so they are slight hopes although the vet had said it doesn't mean she will get the feeling back. I could have an MRI scan to see if they find any damage but it would cost a £1000 and if she needed spinal surgery they don't fund it and would be thousands the vet has told me but not the exact amount. I just don't have that kind of money i really wish i did because i wouldn't care what it cost if i had it. So i don't think this is an option i can do.
The vet said they are keeping her in for a few more days to see how she responds to the injections if at all and i have to phone back at 10.30am tomorrow.
I'm so worried and upset about her and i also have her daughter with me Dotty who is 3months old and she is quiet and missing her mum too.
I hate to see my lovely Betty like that and she looked so sad when i left her, these 2 dogs are like my children and will do anything i can for them.
has anyone been through this or have any advice for me because i just don't know what is the best to do, am so worried she wont get any feeling back in her legs as she is so active and loves running in the woods.
Ive looked a bit on the internet and know you can get little wheelchairs for them, and if that's what happens i will get one rather than put her to sleep. Any advice please thanks. Joanne.

[CorkyMax]

I have no idea if this would work--It is off the top of my head! Wondering if a chiropractor could help. There are vets that do this. And if you did see a chiropractor, I would ask for the x-rays to take with you. You paid for them--They are yours!

[jojo180877]

Yes i will look into that also thanks, i was going to ask for the x-rays but wasnt sure if they would let me have them or if they would be any use.

[cherylmartin]

Please keep us informed as the what is happening. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Cheryl and Angel Jasmine

Jasmine's Rainbow Residency at RainbowsBridge.com

[Lara's mom]

Acupuncture might also be of help. I very much hope that your little one recovers.

[jojo180877]

Been to the vets today to see betty, she has not changed at all, bless her. im so worried about her but i know its early days so hopefully there will be some improvement soon. the vet said she has lost the slight feeling in her toes that she had yesterday, so that is not a good sign. also her front legs are getting stiff and im not sure if it because she is sat in the same position or if it means she is losing her feeling there too, i really hope not. They will just keep giving her injections and doing what they are doing till she shows improvement or when they think there is not much else they can do for her, shes not in any pain at the moment. i just hope she comes through this ok. thanks for ur messages they are a real help. Jo x

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by jojo180877

Been to the vets today to see betty, she has not changed at all, bless her. im so worried about her but i know its early days so hopefully there will be some improvement soon. the vet said she has lost the slight feeling in her toes that she had yesterday, so that is not a good sign. also her front legs are getting stiff and im not sure if it because she is sat in the same position or if it means she is losing her feeling there too, i really hope not. They will just keep giving her injectionsWhat are the meds they are injecting called? and doing what they are doing till she shows improvement or when they think there is not much else they can do for her, shes not in any pain at the moment. i just hope she comes through this ok. thanks for ur messages they are a real help. Jo x

Did you ask about chiropractoral treatment or the acupuncture? If the injections are not helping--hoping they are not doing more harm than good!! Maybe she has some pinched nerves that a chiropractor could possibly fix in one treatment--If it were me I would check into this. It sounds like the vet didn't see anything on the x-ray--Does a pinched nerve show up on an x-ray!?

[jojo180877]

no its possible it could be a pinched nerve but it wouldnt show up on an x-ray nor would a disc slip the vet said you cant always tell with those two. i guess at least if it were a pinched nerve ive more chance of helping her. i will defo look into that too and make some phone calls to find out. thanks so much anything is worth a try x

Oh sorry forgot to say the injection are anti-inflammatories and pain killers they are giving and dont think she said anything else.

[Mr. Vega]

JoJo,

This kind of acute, hind limb paralysis can be tricky as far as what is causing it. And I know from experience that it is emotionally draining as well, so, I definitely feel for you. I'd have to see the dog, x-rays, etc.. for myself, but, I can offer up some possibilities as to what it may be.

Because it is a bilateral (both limbs) paralysis, it is most likely going to be some injury to the spinal cord somewhere between her pelvis and her ribs. Most of these occur right behind where the ribs stop (called the Thoracic-Lumbar junction). Here is a list of possibilities: Disc disease, neoplasia/tumor, infection/inflammation, or vascular disease. Most of the time, disc disease can be seen with regular x-rays, but, they can be tricky and elude the person taking the x-rays. Some tumors/neoplasia can form in the vertebral canal (where the spinal cord is) and push up against the spinal cord, causing paralysis and loss of sensation to the hind limbs. There are a handful of parasites/microbes that will invade the vertebral canal and cause havoc on the spinal cord. As far as vascular disease, something that is not terribly uncommon in the small animal hospital here is what we call a FCE - Fibrocartilagenous emboli. Basically, some amount of fiberous/cartilage forms for whatever reason in the blood vessels and becomes detached. It may float down the vessles and become lodged where the blood supply is reaching that area of hte spinal cord and then cause major problems for that area of the spinal cord = causing paralysis.

Diagnostic tests - Again, x-rays won't be able to rule all of these out. As previously suggested, a MRI could be of use. Also the possibility of a myelogram might help. These, unfortunately, will all cost a bit more and I know it's never easy to pay big bucks for that kind of stuff. I rec. you discuss all options with your vet.

It is worth mentioning that I have seen some cases of bilateral paralysis just spontaneously resolve and the dog was just fine after a few weeks. So, dont lose hope, keep lines of communication open with the vet, and pray.

Feel free to ask anything, I'll do my best to answer.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by jojo180877

no its possible it could be a pinched nerve but it wouldnt show up on an x-ray nor would a disc slip the vet said you cant always tell with those two. i guess at least if it were a pinched nerve ive more chance of helping her. i will defo look into that too and make some phone calls to find out. thanks so much anything is worth a try xIf it is a pinched nerve and a chiropractor could fix it--It would also be a lot cheaper then what you are doing now. Sounds to me that the vet is just waiting and seeing--and if these meds that are being injected are possibly just for pain--I shudder at what is being injected!!!
This is of course up to you as to what to do. If on Rimadyl for pain (and I'd be willing to bet that is what it is)--Please read up on what a dangerous med this can be---liver/kidney failure, etc. Put rimadyl/adverse reactions in your browser! Note that rimadyl is another word for carprofen (Hope I am spelling that right.)

Oh sorry forgot to say the injection are anti-inflammatories and pain killers they are giving and dont think she said anything else.

If this vet is just keeping the dog comfortable and waiting this out and not really doing anything about it---It is costing you a lot of money and no matter what anyone else is going to say about rimadyl--IT IS A KILLER OF SOME DOGS! If this is what is going on-- Rimadyl is too dangerous to take a chance on esp. if this is just to wait and see. Please do some research. I hope things work out okay!

Seems to be a new feature in here now--Submitting a new post right under the last post you do--Doesn't work anymore--It just gets added to the 1st post you did! Anyway this (below) was suppose to be addressed to Mr. Vega

Read your post after I submitted my last one above! What do you think about seeing a chiropractor or doing acupuncture?

[jojo180877]

This happened i think because she had a small fight with a bigger dog, maybe he fell on her I'm not sure but do u think that a disc is more likely in that situation or could still other things happen from this incident? The vet has told me today she is stiffening in the front legs, why do u think this is, is it a bad sign? She also said if i wanted an MRI and spinal surgery i should do it the next 24 hrs as i have to be referred, but unfortunately it is so expensive i cannot afford it. and it doesn't even mean it will work. I wish i could pay for that but i cant. i phoned around earlier and it around £4000 for MRI/cat scan, hospitalisation and spinal surgery. But i have heard alot of positive stories of dogs that didnt have the surgery and still got better. I asked the vet about a myelogram as i was researching on paralysis this morning but she said because i cant have the surgery its not worth doing an myelogram and sometimes it can be dangerous to the dog in some cases and make them worse especially if im not having the surgery. Thank you so much for your reply and taking the time to write it. im so grateful.

I will ask my vet tomorrow what painkillers she is giving and what the risks are thank you, i will do some research on acupuncture and chiropodist thanks for ur advice x

[CorkyMax]

Sorry, I don't put a whole lot of stock in most vets--Hope you have a good one! As far as the Rimadyl---I hope you check it out on your own too because your vet will prob. not tell you everything about this med. It was banned for human use and the greedy pharmeceutical companies have to make their money off of it somehow! If it is dangerous to humans --It is dangerous to dogs! Before a vet is suppose to give this 'killer'--There should be blood tests to make sure the kidneys and liver are functioning properly--Dogs have been damaged for life or even died after just one capsule/injection of this stuff. Ask for a handout sheet also from your vet--They are suppose to give this!! I have had a little experience with this 'crap' with one of my dogs--My vet now has it in my dog's records--to never ever give this. And they have done this before without even consulting ---Also had found out that rimadyl is given while dog is in surgery and you have no idea until you see your itemized bill!!

Will add a link here to a thread on rimadyl that is in this forum:

TIME to Remind About these Dangerous Drugs/Killers

[Mr. Vega]

Jojo,

Disc disease is very likely and I always have it as one of my top differentials when a dog comes in with bilat. hind limb paralysis. Especially those little guys (and ALWAYS if its a weiner type dog). Yes, the encounter with the big dog could have caused it, here's why:

The disc, between the vertebrae, serves as a nice, spongy pillow to resist compression. As the dog moves in awkward ways, resisting compression between vertebrae is super critical. Now, its very possible (even more so if your dog is middle aged or older) that betty already had a deteriorating disc that was losing is sponginess (is that a word?) and was on the verge of becoming a protruded disc (or, bulging as you may have heard with people). When the disc begins to bulge, it always goes the same direction = up = hitting the spinal cord. All it needs seomtimes is one quick, traumatic incident... It happens all the time in people and dogs.

I hate to leave you with questions unanswered, but, this is mere speculation on my part as I haven't see the dog, it's x-rays, or its reaction to any of the parts of the neurological exam.

What I can give is my 2 cents on your situation - I don't think you should feel guilt about not being able to afford these services (I sure coudln't if I wasn't able to just go in and do most of them myself). I see owners come out of the small animal hospital every day that feel so guilty b/c they won't go bankrupt for their dog that has a terrible prognosis anyway. I know you want to do everything for your dog that you can. You just have to realize, you already are.


Cork - As I've said in other posts, I am super careful when it comes to spinal injuries. I have some extreme paranoia on those cases because nervous tissue doesn't really grow back if you mess something up. So, I would be very apprehensive about letting a chiropractor play with my spinal injuried dog. Maybe I'm too much of a wuss but it just seems risky. The acupuncture does sound kinda nice. I am not familiar enough with it to rec. its use although I have every intention of learning how to incorporate it into my own medicine one day.

[jojo180877]

Thank you Mr.Vaga for all of this information, it has helped me understand alot more what maybe happening to Betty. I spoke to the vet earlier today and there is no change, they tried some hydro with her today but not much response, she is not weeing on her own now and they had to relieve her themselves. They are going to see how she goes today and maybe they said i would like to bring her home tomorrow to see how she goes. Thanks again for everything, i will talk to my vet about everything i have read and see what she says. much appreciated for all ur help and kind words. x

[jojo180877]

I have Betty at home now and her eyes dont seem as sad as before. The vet has advised me to put her to sleep as that is what she would do if it were her own dog. I really do not want this to be an option but i do want what is best for Betty. I think i would only do this if i thought she was really unhappy, i know she is a bit sad now but surley i should give her time to see if she does get her happiness back and to be honest she has always had a sad look on her face even though i can tell in her eyes when she is happy. she is shaking a little though. but her eyes do seem a bit brighter. she no longer can urinate by herself so i have to do that for her. she is not eating even though ive tried her with cheese and roast chicken that she normally loves. the vet gave me some tinned food that i added a little water too and had to syringe it into her mouth, a little at a time. il try her with some more later. Does anyone know of a company in the uk that would rent a dog cart or anyone i can speak to about mobility for her would be a grate help. ive looked on a few sites like eddie's wheels but it takes 2 weeks to come made to measure, i just wanted to try her in 1 before i got 1. any advice?? thank you all for ur support x

[jojo180877]

I have been to the vets this morning, her front legs are not working although she has a slight feeling in 1 leg. the vet has advised me to put her to sleep today as he thinks she has assending spinal damage. her back legs were paralised first and its now making its way to the front. 99% has no chance of recovery in any of her legs. Is that right? I am so upset, she is in no pain but i dont want her to suffer. Im so confused as to what is best for her and if we gave her a few more days maybe we would see a difference, or is that just hope on my part. thank you everyone for ur support if any advice for me i would be grateful. i have to take back at 5pm. x

[CorkyMax]

[COLOR="Green"]Feel so bad for you and Betty. Are you sure she is not in any pain---shaking/trembling is a sign of pain in dogs, and sometimes that is the only sign. How old is she? Does your vet think this could of happened because of the dog fight? I am wondering still if a spinal adjustment (chiropractor) might fix this. At this point it sounds like you may need to try something different as the way it is now---things, according to the vet's method are not going to work and you will end up putting her to sleep. Hate to be blunt but--What do you have to lose at this point? If you could even just talk to a chiropractic vet on the phone and see what he thinks---Can you get a phone # from your vet? He may not be able to do anything but if this is caused from the dog fight and not from an ongoing thing--degeneration, etc. If it could be caused from a pinched nerve or something out of place because of the dog fight---It might be able to be fixed. As I said before--Is it worth trying if nothing else is working--a last chance attempt? Again , how old is your Betty--If fairly young and not an old dog, I would think that odds would be more in her favor of it not being degenerative.

I am going to see if I can find more info on vet chiropractory--Look up on the net and may have a chance to talk to my chiropractor today--weather permitting (not looking good at this point-weatherwise--ice covered roads but it is early--may improve).

Be back here if I find something.COLOR]
Found this site. I don't know if you live in the states or Canada, etc. This page will give you locations for the states but if you live elsewhere just back page to click on your area : AVCA Doctors Search - for your horse, dog, cat or exotic - United States Chiropractors and Veterinarians qualified to adjust animals.

This is another page from same site that tells what can be done for various problems, etc: Doctors, worldwide, certified in animal chiropractic by the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association

Hey, be sure to read this page:Doctors, worldwide, certified in animal chiropractic by the American Veterinary Chiropractic Association

[Lara's mom]

I think at this point it comes down to a "quality of life" issue. The paralysis is getting worse. I think perhaps the time has come to ask yourself what kind of life a dog who cannot move is likely to have, given that you've received a very grim prognosis. As hard as it is to let a beloved companion go, you have to put your own feelings aside and act in the best interest of your dog.

[jojo180877]

Thank you for your kind words and thanks corky for ur research you have done. Betty had an assending spinal injury that travelled up her spine paralysing every part of her on its way. Its not that common really most of the time they would just stay paralysed in the rear. She was paralysed from the neck down today and it would of kept going up and eventually cut of her air supply. I couldnt bare to see her like that and would not want her to suffer anymore. She wasnt in any pain but she was so unhappy and poorly. She was put to sleep earlier today. I still cant believe it she was only 4 years old and such a joy. I hope she is no longer suffering now and is running everywhere she can. Im going to miss her so much. I have her daughter Dotty with me and she hasnt eaten alday either! But i have her to care for now. Thank you everyone who has tried to help, i couldnt of done all this without all the support. Thank you x

Goodnight Beautiful Betty. I love you XXX

[forbiddenminni]

Just want to say im sorry for your loss, after reading this thread it sounds like you did the right thing. I hope everything works out for you.