[Bacis Dad]

Hi All,

Just wanted to start a thread to see who feeds raw food and what's included in your pets diet? I would love to hear success stories, and interesting facts on the raw food you feed and why you chose certain ingerients you use (if you make your own!)?

I currently feed a pre-made raw food consisting of Chicken Meat, Ground Bone, Necks & Organ Meat,Carrots,Apples,Broccoli,Spinach,Acorn Squash,Beets,Parsley,Blueberries,Cod Liver Oil,Brewers Yeast
and after speaking to a fellow poster will probably start adding raw egg yolks.
I started from when my dog was 8 wks old and has been on nothing since and she is perfect in every way, size, energy, coat, teeth, breath etc and definitley the fastest in her agility class!
She also LOVES her raw lamb bones and turkey necks!
So what about you?

Also, Interested in finding out if anyone supplements their raw food?
Here is an interesting clippit from a website:
"Warning:
When choosing supplements for a raw-fed dog, avoid those containing minerals. A raw food diet including bones is mineral-rich, and you can easily end up over-supplementing with calcium.

Do not be tempted to "cover all bases" by adding too many supplements to any diet, raw or otherwise. Some supplements do no harm in excess, but others can lead to serious health problems.

In short, you do not need to use supplements for a raw food diet (many do not), but some may be useful. "

[boldraw]

Hi Bacis Dad!

Great post.

I have a pack of six Shilohs. Our guys usually enjoy:

-Beef heart, liver, tongue.
-Turkey neck, gizzards, backs, liver
-Chicken frames, necks (although they are a bit small for my guys), backs, livers, hearts, gizzards, feet.
-Ostrich necks and hearts
-Rabbit
-Herring, Mackerel, Salmon Heads, Whitefish, Smelts
-Pork Necks & Riblets
-Tripe Tripe Tripe Did I mention tripe?

We are a supplier, so I have quite an abundance of choice for my guys. Plus I grind the tripe myself and directly get it from the abattoire.

Regarding supplements, the only think is kelp occasionally and salmon oil during the winter to help with Vitamin D. Apart from that, no other supplements.

I did an article on Tripe two days ago on my blog boldraw.tumblr.com


Dave
Bold Raw

[CorkyMax]

Just not in the right frame of mind to do this right now but will paste a post I did earlier on in this forum and will bring other info I may have 'scattered' thru out this forum when I find it! My problem is I have a lot (too much) to write plus being long-winded-- I just can't do it all right now but will come in with 'tidbits' now and then. (more shorter posts than such a long time consuming one post)--just keep looking back here for more links. Here is the 1st previous post:
My 2 get mostly a raw food diet with some home-cooking. Corky (cocker/golden retriever mix) loves the raw chicken necks the best too. For the morning meal they get mostly cooked oatmeal with various additions added in like eggs--raw yolk added in after oatmeal has cooled some. The egg white, I stir into the oatmeal as soon as I take it off the stove and this turns the egg white 'white' and means it is cooked--I may put meat tidbits in too--cooked pcs of chicken usually. I just found out recently that they even like cinnamon in their oatmeal. Other morning meals may be cottage cheese with an egg (raw), some pumpkin, maybe a few pcs. of 'good' bread. About once or twice a week, they will have canned salmon or mackerel which I add an egg to, and a little cottage cheese--maybe a few pcs. of bread. Supper is usually raw meat mixed with finely grated raw veggies. Once in a while I will give them a cooked chicken meal with a lot of cooked veggies--esp. carrots,celery, broccoli and whatever other veggie I have at the time--They love asparagus. I garden for my dogs mainly so I can have fresh--I also grind and mix dif. veg. blends and put in freezer for winter meals. I never will give them commercial canned veggies! I like to give them raw cubed venison the best as far as meat goes as it has not been 'messed with' like the things that are fed to the cattle and other meat supplys are. But have to depend on the hunters in my family for some of that and don't get as much as I'd like!

Here is a link to a long thread (5 pages) in here on raw feeding----I have no less than 13 posts in this thread--Lol, controversy full!
[B]Raw food!

[CorkyMax]

The Four Most Important supplements to Give

This is another article/list written by Dr. Andrew JonesDVm

1. OMEGA 3 FATTY ACIDS: In his studies and experience, these help more diseases than ANY other supplement. These are beneficial to the immune system, the nervous system, the heart, and help to stop inflammation, such as arthritis and allergies. They are critically important in Cancer. This is probably the most important supplement to give, no matter what you feed. Sources are found in fish body oil, and not in animal oil. They are also found in flax seed and flax oil. Recommended amount is 1,000mg (containing 300mg combined DHA/EPA) per 30# of body weight. Maximum dosage for dogs with health problems would be 1,000mg per 10# of body weight. The Flax seed dose is 1 teaspoon per cup of dog food daily. (I-Corky/Max would not use the flax, myself---The fish body oil is much better and cheaper. Hopefully you don't have a dog that is allergic to the fish body oil. I have read somewhere that flax isn't the best thing to give a dog---Can't remember why--may have something to do with allergies or the digestion or even rancidity)Also be aware that Omega oils will deplete Vitamin E so you should supplement with E if giving this important Omega oil!
2. VITAMINS AND MINERALS: Commercial foods lose most of their vitamin and mineral content in processing. The anti-oxidant Vitamins are the most important: Vitamin E, Vitamin C and the Water Soluble B Vitamins. The most important minerals to supplement include Calcium, Zinc, Selenium, and Iron. The vitamins and minerals play key roles in ALL cells in the body--from the B vitamins necessary for brain function, to Selenium, a vital antioxident that protects your dogs organs from damage. Every quality dog supplement should have a multivitamin/mineral component.Caution here if feeding mineral enriched raw food!
3. IMMUNE SUPPORTIVE PRODUCTS: Every common dog disease-be it from allergies, to infections to cancer, ALL have one common denominator-THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. Anything that you can do to boost and normalize your dog's immune system will help them AVOID and FIGHT these common dog diseases. Some of the more beneficial immune support ingredients include: colostrum, certain amino acids(Lysine), some of the immune stimulant herbs (i.e. Echinacea, Ginseng, Astragalus), and Immune boosting mushrooms.
4. PROBIOTICS: These are the beneficial bacteria that live in the intestines and help control yeast and harmful bacteria, as well as helping with digestion and intestinal health. These friendly bacteria are destroyed whenever ANTIBIOTICS are given,and CAN ALSO BE FLUSHED OUT OF THE SYSTEM IF YOUR DOG HAS DIARRHEA. Probiotics that have been proven to be beneficial include Lactobacillus, and Enterococcus. ANY DOG THAT HAS DIARRHEA OR IS ON ANTIBIOTICS SHOULD ALSO be on a quality probiotic.

I,for one,also use CoQ10--suppose to help the heart--esp. beneficial if your dog has bad or infected teeth (which should be taken care of at the vet's office)--but I'm sure you have heard (some of you, anyway) that bad teeth can cause heart disease or at least make it worse!

The below article was suppose to be a new post but something has changed in this forum lately! (evidently) I've had this happen several times now! Seems pretty long this way--Wonder what will happen if next 'post' makes it too long to accept?!

Salmon Poisoning Disease


This information is not meant to be a substitute for veterinary care. Always follow the instructions provided by your veterinarian.


Fishing can be wonderful recreation, but sharing the catch with your dog can be an act of kindness that kills.
Salmon Poisoning Disease is a potentially fatal condition seen in dogs that eat certain types of raw fish. Salmon (salmonid fish) and other anadromous fish (fish that swim upstream to breed) can be infected with a parasite called Nanophyetus salmincola. Overall, the parasite is relatively harmless. The danger occurs when the parasite itself is infected with a rickettsial organism called Neorickettsia helminthoeca. It’s this microorganism that causes salmon poisoning.

“Salmon poisoning occurs most commonly west of the Cascade mountain range,” says Dr. Bill Foreyt, a veterinary parasitologist at Washington State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He adds, “Canids (dogs) are the only species susceptible to salmon poisoning. That’s why cats, raccoons and bears eat raw fish regularly with out consequence.”

Generally clinical signs appear within six days of a dog eating an infected fish.

Common symptoms of salmon poisoning include:

■vomiting
■lack of appetite
■fever
■diarrhea
■weakness
■swollen lymph nodes
■dehydration
If untreated, death usually occurs within fourteen days of eating the infected fish. Ninety percent of dogs showing symptoms die if they are not treated.
Thankfully, salmon poisoning is treatable if it’s caught in time. A key to its diagnosis is telling your veterinarian that your dog ate raw fish. If you have a dog that wanders, or raids trashcans and you are unsure of what it’s eaten; consider the possibility of salmon poisoning. Salmon poisoning can be diagnosed with a fecal sample or a needle sample of a swollen lymph node. Detecting the parasite’s eggs as they are shed in the feces confirms its presence. The rickettsial organism can be detected in a needle sample from a swollen lymph node. The combination of symptoms, and the presence of parasite eggs or the rickettsial organisms, are enough to justify treatment.

Given the severity of the condition, treatment is relatively simple. Your veterinarian will prescribe an antibiotic and a “wormer”. The antibiotic kills the rickettsial organisms that cause the illness, and the wormer kills the parasite. If the dog is dehydrated, intravenous fluid are given. Once treatment has been started, most dogs show dramatic improvement within two days.
Next time you are fishing or purchase raw salmon and you hear the familiar begging whine of your dog, ignore it. They may not understand it, but not sharing the fish is the best thing for them. This will save them from suffering salmon poisoning, and save you from a veterinary bill.


Avoid These Foods for Dogs ---a link to click on!
------------------------------------------------------------------

Salmon feed on snails that carry a fluke that contain a bacteria that is harmful if ingested by dogs. This complicated process is called "salmon poisoning" and occurs if a dog eats salmon raw. The salmon may be fresh caught, or found by the dog in refuse piles. Any part of the raw salmon can contain these flukes and bacteria, but the head and "guts" contain the most....and are the discarded parts that dogs usually find near fishing areas and campgrounds. Freezing, cooking, and smoking kill this bacteria.

Although cats are not susceptible to this poisoning, it is not recommended that raw fish be fed to them. People are not affected by the flukes or bacteria.

Symptoms of salmon poisoning begin 5 to 7 days after ingestion of the raw salmon and can include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, and swollen lymph glands. Diagnosis is made by the history of exposure to raw salmon and by examining a fecal sample for evidence of flukes. Although salmon poisoning is easily treated with antibiotics, diagnosis can be difficult because the symptoms often mimic other diseases like canine parvovirus. The best cure is prevention. Never feed your dog raw fish or fish parts, and watch your dog carefully if you take him fishing or to areas where others have been fishing.

Corky/Max here: All warm water fishes are susceptible to this parasite/fluke. Especially the raw salmon heads that are mentioned in this thread!!

[Bacis Dad]

Wow thanks for the thorough posts Corky/Max!
Dave I may have to talk to you about your products!
You guys really go all out for your dogs! Its nice to be on a dog forum where people REALLY care about their dogs!
I feel like I have some catching up on the spoiling for my pooch!
I hope there are more raw feeders out there that can share their input on this topic!

[CorkyMax]

Yay!! I just had one of my dogs (Corky) checked for worms. He has none. Making this comment because you know (esp. if you are a raw feeder) how 'nonbelievers' in raw feeding of meat say your dog will get worms!
Of course the 'counter-attack' to that is--If your dog is healthy and has a good immune system that the worms stay away--Well appears so as Corky gets raw meat almost every day!! I also mentioned that fact to my vet (who is not a raw meat believer) and he admitted it was true about the good immune system warding off worms and other parasites.

[Bacis Dad]

Yay!!! Thats great news! It feels great when all your (pets) tests come back clean! I cant wait for the day that raw food starts getting more acceptance, and vets start to learn more about it, so we can all learn more and our pets can further more benefit from this fresh diet!

[Mr. Vega]

How many of you raw feeders give bones to your dog to eat?

I ask because of this: a lab mix died at the small animal hospital last night after being brought in yesterday morning for vomiting, not eating, and reluctance to move. The owner had been feeding the dog the b.a.r.f. diet and he said he had always put raw chicken bones in with the food b/c he thought it was natural. Well, this little guy's abdomen was very distended and he looked awful. We did an emergency abdominal exploratory after seeing bone fragments in his small intestine on x-ray (or so we thought). Well, it was a risky move because his white cell count was off so we suspected a perforated intestine (which causes intestinal contents to leak out into the peritoneal cavity = deadly) but had to proceed anyway. Well, it was. A nice tear right through the intestinal wall had allowed all sorts of bad stuff to get out and by the time we closed him up, he was already showing all his signs of septicemia. I went home only to hear the bad news when I came back to school this morning... he didn't make it through the night.

[Bacis Dad]

Wow! Thats a shame! I can only imagine how hard it is on that family!
I feed raw bones, but NEVER chicken bones for that exact problem! I normally feed lamb femur bones, because they are oversized (to my dog) and she really has to chew on them. Theres no way for her to eat a chunk off to have a lage piece pierce through her, and it never splinters. In all the BARF diets and books and literature about it, they always state to avoid chicken bones unless it is finely ground into the food, but never to give whole chicken bones, just way too risky! Unfortunately people with good intention and lack of education end up learning the hard way, like this poor family.
But really any bone can cause that problem but is normally higher risk in cooked bones, and rawhide just really isnt that healthy either. Whole bones should never be placed in in food especially with a breed like a lab that just inhales everything! If my dog ever eats a bone and swallows chunks or can break off large pieces of it, it's just not the right type of bone for my dog. My condolences go out to that family!

[CorkyMax]

Sad to hear! First thing that came to my mind when I read that it was Lab was that it was not chewing the bones and must be more or less inhaling them. I don't think it was a good idea to feed bones at the same time as other 'softer' food either, esp. to a dog that wolfs down it's food. And if I remember right I think all the info on feeding of bones IS suppose to be an only bone meal--nothing else with them! I also would be observing while my dog was being fed bones. I am a raw feeder but the only bones my dog (Have 2 dogs but one doesn't like to chew up bones)--the only bones My one dog gets are raw chicken necks and raw chicken wings which I cut in 3 sections and break off the very sharp tips. Some people feed raw turkey necks but I won't give my dog those as they are bigger than chicken necks and am leary of them for my sized dog. My Corky loves the chicken necks and he doesn't get them as often as I'd like to give him because I have to buy 40 lbs. at a time and usually don't have enough room in the freezer. So he doesn't get enough calcium and I took the option of grinding egg shells and using that as a way of giving calcium. I prob. would be giving more bone (and other dog included) if I had a very good (expensive) grinder and could grind up the bone fine.

Originally Posted by Bacis Dad

Wow! Thats a shame! I can only imagine how hard it is on that family!
I feed raw bones, but NEVER chicken bones for that exact problem! I normally feed lamb femur bones, because they are oversized (to my dog) and she really has to chew on them. Theres no way for her to eat a chunk off to have a lage piece pierce through her, and it never splinters. In all the BARF diets and books and literature about it, they always state to avoid chicken bones unless it is finely ground into the food, but never to give whole chicken bones, just way too risky! Unfortunately people with good intention and lack of education end up learning the hard way, like this poor family.
But really any bone can cause that problem but is normally higher risk in cooked bones, and rawhide just really isnt that healthy either. Whole bones should never be placed in in food especially with a breed like a lab that just inhales everything! If my dog ever eats a bone and swallows chunks or can break off large pieces of it, it's just not the right type of bone for my dog. My condolences go out to that family!

Just had to make this comment: The problem with large over-sized bones is that the dog could chip his teeth esp. if he is a determined dog to try and get pieces off--a dog that doesn't give up. Makes me think of when my son-in-law was trying to be funny and brought whole beef legs (minus most of the meat of course!) to my dogs. This was in the cold winter time. The legs were thrown in my fenced in covered with snow back yard. I had one h*ll of a time trying to get my dogs back in the house--They would stay out there for hrs trying to chew those bones and I mean it was COLD out there too!

[Mr. Vega]

I don't know how big the bones were when the dog started out on them, but, the pieces we took out that had perforated the intestinal wall were about an inch or so long. I've seen and read about this happening from all sorts of bones of all sizes. Personally, if I know a bone (of any size) can somehow (through chewing or whatever) become a sharp object (of any size) it is out of my house immediately.

[ericwipe]

My mom used to feed our puppy some boiled vegetables and meat twice a week. He was very happy to eat boiled vegetables.

[Todd]

I feed Lucky a raw diet. It is a mixture of a prey model raw diet and a BARF diet. I give her raw meaty bones and organs as well as pureed vegetables, fruits, and occasionaly I'll add a whole food supplement (nothing synthetic). The meat/organs I feed include, chicken quarters, chicken drumsticks, turkey drumsticks, turkey necks, turkey thighs, pork ribs, buffalo, lamb, canned and fresh fish, chicken livers, beef liver, beef kidney, beef heart, cow tounge, among others. I also will give Lucky a soup or marrow bone to snack on.