[Mick]

What do you all think about holistic dog foods such as California Natural, Eagle Pack, Innova, Solid Gold, etc? Are they as good as advertised or is it all a bunch of hype? I've heard a lot lately about this subject and wanted to get everyones opinion. Is "regular" dog food unhealthy in comparison? Thank you

[Bacis Dad]

I HIGHLY reccommend a higher quality diet! These newer formulas are trying to get as close as possible to an ancestral diet while maintaining convenience for us. I personally feel that raw food is the best (but it seems to be a controversial topic), however sooo much of the food out there have ingredients that dogs have no need for. Alot of these foods have un-absorbable ingredients, fillers, additives, artificial flavorings and colorings. IMO I feel that a majority of common health problems in dogs nowadays is attributed to these garbage commercial diets out there. I can go on for awhile on this topic but I will keep it brief.

If you want to see a really good dog food comparison site check out:
Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost

[CorkyMax]

I agree with Bacis Dad 100%. I also get tired of repeating what all I think on this subject--esp. because I could go on and on and I just don't have the 'energy' to do that so much anymore! There are many replies/posts/threads in this forum on the subject if one wants to use the Search box in here to look it up. Will just say that all commercial dogfood (that isn't bought raw) is cooked at such high temps. that even if there was any nutrition (AND THERE ISN"T MUCH IF ANY!!) in it before cooking--It would be 'cooked' out to nothing fit for anything to be healthy on!!! And it is full of all kinds of crap--euthenized animals with the poisonous injections to kill them still in the dead animal (Don't even like to call it dog FOOD because it really is useless for food) full of moldy grains, salmonella, sick diseased and rotting dead animals, and anything under the sun the greedy dog food companies can stick in it for weight to make more money on! How many dogs have died because of eating 'BAD' poisoned dog food?!!! Prob. more than anyone would like to hear about!! And to me it is like I would be feeding my 2 dogs poison-PERIOD, even if I was lucky enough to get a hold of a bag that didn't have something unhealthy in it!! Now you can see why I don't like to even reply on this subject---I get too 'upset and mad and disgusted' about commercial dog food. I just wish all dog owners would get a book on the subject on what is in commercial dog food---Get it from the library.--or Amazon.com or Ebay--cheap used books!

And if you want an eye opener---Go to a rendering plant in the middle of July and see some of the stuff that goes in commercial dog food ----If you can stand the smell and all the blow flies hoovering around!!--let alone what you see!

Ya know--It just dawned on me---Wonder why they call them rendering plants with not even the mention of what it is----It is a place to make dogfood from!!!
Should be called what it is ---Main source for commercial dog food manufacturing!!! Wonder if that would open up anyone's eyes!!!

[Bacis Dad]

HAHA Corky/Max thats a lot of built up passion!
But Cork/Max did mention something that almost no one knows, including vets. There is something like 80+ dog "food" manufacturers that use rendered meat.
For those of you who didnt pick up on Corky's post, rendered meat is:
The majority of processed food comes from slaughterhouses but also includes restaurant grease and butcher shop trimmings, expired meat from grocery stores, the carcasses of euthanized and dead animals from animal shelters, zoos and veterinarians. This material can include the fatty tissue, bones, and offal, as well as entire carcasses of animals condemned at slaughterhouses, and those that have died on farms (deadstock), in transit, etc.

What else is sick is that a lot of human food and fast food! So if you dont ming your dog eating McDonalds EVERY meal of EVERY day then go ahead and buy your food in your nearest supermarket!

[Mick]

Wow, thanks for the passion you have expressed on this subject. I appreciate your thoughts. Okay, I understand now about mass produced commercial dog foods being "poison" but what about the holistic brands that I mentioned. Are they okay? Are they cooked at high temperatures as well which in effect, cook out the nutrition? I looked at the ingredient labels on these holistic/organic kibble brands and they look very healthy. Corky/Max, when you mention raw food, are you referring to a raw food kibble such as EVO or are you talking more along the lines of fresh meat, bones, vege's, etc? Thanks in advance.

[Bacis Dad]

Yeah the foods you mentioned (to the best of my knowledge) do not use rendered food. However they are still cooking the meat. The nice thing about some of these High Quality foods is they "replenish" the lost nutrients with a "spray coating". Thats why brands like Innove Evo, Wysong, Ori Jen( my preference for dry). The spray coat normally has freeze dried raw meat, with probiotics and some freeze dried vegetables.
If anything is cooked it will Always lose nutritional value, but I commend Evo and Orijen on their breakthrough dry food technologies.

So to answer your question yes the foods you mentioned are Much better than most, and the raw food we talk about is actually a variety of raw meats and organs and raw vegetables and some ground raw bone

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by Mick

Wow, thanks for the passion you have expressed on this subject. I appreciate your thoughts. Okay, I understand now about mass produced commercial dog foods being "poison" but what about the holistic brands that I mentioned. Are they okay? Are they cooked at high temperatures as well which in effect, cook out the nutrition? I looked at the ingredient labels on these holistic/organic kibble brands and they look very healthy. Corky/Max, when you mention raw food, are you referring to a raw food kibble such as EVO or are you talking more along the lines of fresh meat, bones, vege's, etc? Thanks in advance.

Yup, Basic's Dad pretty much answered about the raw feeding I do. I actually do a mix--Breakfast may be cooked oatmeal with raw egg yolk (I stir the raw white of the egg into the hot cooked oatmeal or it's alternate-Malt O-Meal (not the chocolate flavored but the plain) and a couple times a week they get canned salmon with raw eggs, sometimes cooked pumpkin or winter squash, cottage cheese mixed in also. Note: Never use raw salmon or any other warm water fish raw---parasites!!! I like to feed a warm meal in the morning most of the time. Supper is mostly the raw meat and veggies, little organ meat (raw of course). I'd like to give them the raw ground bones but don't have a meat grinder and a good one is expensive so I grind egg shells in a coffee grinder real fine and usually sprinkle about 1/4-1/2 tsp. in with the breakfast meal and stir it in good. The only bones I give now are raw chicken necks or raw chicken wings. Corky loves chicken necks and believe it or not he loves raw asparagus, pea pods, and green beans. He stands at the garden fence waiting for me to throw these veggies to him. Can't refuse him but he is not getting the nutrients-- being whole instead of pulverized/ground real fine, so these are considered a treat. I garden mainly for my 2 dogs so they get ground up and put in their meals---freezing some for winter also. They will get cooked meals for supper once in a while if I want to feed any pork---never raw pork as worms there--trichinosis! And I have to buy a good deal on turkey and chicken thighs/legs and it gets cooked as hard to cut the raw meat off the bones. I also supplement with fish oil capsules,,(and you need to add Vitamin E when giving fish oil as the fish oil will deplete Vitamin E) They also get Coenzyme Q-10 for heart health and it is a guard if the teeth are bad which can cause heart disease. And they get a dog multivitamin---Not very potent but it 'rounds out' everything.

Another thing: Dogs need some fat. Usually most of the raw meats provide this but it is a good thing to be aware of and make sure they are getting a little fat. (I said little---Iffy thing as too much can lead to pancreatitis and other things. But if no fat at all in the diet--could actually cause death--Fat is the same as gas is to a car.--You need it to operate! Mine get fat also from marrow bones (suet) they get every so often to chew on. Chicken necks have a good deal of fat also, as does raw hamburger and raw ground turkey. BUT check labels for the ground turkey and buy the higher priced one with the less fat! Turkey fat (and pork comes in 2nd--although some is cooked out--remember I don't feed raw pork!) is the worst fat of all---the most dense fat of all--Turkey fat could make your dog very sick and maybe permanently so--Pancreatitis is nothing you ever want your dog to get!!!

And you have to read labels for salt/sodium content---Salt is not good for the dog and can kill them if they get too much. Hey, read this thread I did on things that are poisonous to your dog---- Foods that are hazardous to a dog

Well, I've done it again--writing a book! Going to stop now!

[Yogi]

To avoid the obvious, the discussion of what dog food is best etc. has been a long drawn out issue for years. With the inception of the internet it has turned into somewhat of a serious debate that unfortunately in most cases are only substantiated by reports with little to know founding proof as to which is really better or if any are really bad. Common sense tells us that grain should not be a main ingredient in dog foods, this though does not mean it cannot be in the food. Emphasis on meat though fine has not proven to make one food better than another. The truth is that most of these sites containing this information that so many are so quick to quote and believe are not based on real evidence but on individuals expressing their opinions based on what they have read somewhere else.
For those of us who have raised and bred (in more cases than not, longer than many here) I for one have seen first hand (not read some report, but actually witnessed results) how dog foods do work and how so much misconception there is out there with regards to what one person deems is better than another. Over the past 30 plus years I have raised my dogs on Purina and Purina One Lamb & Rice. Each has lived far beyond the breed standard that has been on these foods since they were puppies. In the case of those I have taken in that were overweight. The R/D has in fact reduced weight faster than any other I have used and with follow up health check ups, the dogs have been deemed healthy which is the goal.
As a moderator here and on other sites, we have had to ban the discussion of what is the proper dog food to provide to our dogs. To avoid this issue here I will state that so long as no derogatory remarks are given with regards to the food you would not choose and stay on topic as to the OP's questions regarding what food you recommend, we will keep the topic open. Personal opinions without fail lead to arguments and whether we like it or not. Please address only the OP not those who reply. By doing so, you will show respect for others and help in avoiding taking the OP's question off topic.

[Lara's mom]

I would say to buy the highest quality food that you can. Good nutrition may mean less trips to the vet and a dog who lives a longer and happier life.

[Todd]

I agree with feeding a raw diet. It's the best thing you can do. If not raw, consider feeding a home cooked diet. If you still want to go with kibble, I highly recommend feeding a grain-free food with high meat protein content. Whether you believe that dogs are carnivores or omnivores, it is no secret that meat protein is the most important component of any dogs diet.

High quality grain-free foogs include the following;

EVO
Origin
Timberwolf Organics
Taste Of The Wild
Wellness CORE
Canidae Grain-Free Formula
Among Others

If these foods aren't in your budget, try going with foods that include grains, but not making up the majority of the diet. These include the foods you listed in your thread question;

Innova
California Natural
Wellness
Canidae
Blue Buffalo
Solid Gold
Among Others

[Lunareclipse]

I remember when I fresh out of high school and was putting applications in at various places. I put one in at Kal Kan. They went to give me a tour and I threw up shortly after leaving the break room. The stench was unbelieveable. The horse flies where horrible and I got bit several times before I ever entered the plant. Needless to say, I accepted the job at Honda.

[Lara's mom]

My understanding is that the high quality holistic foods don't contain the stuff from rendering plants. That's why you're paying a much higher price for it. In my opinion, the very top quality kibble is money well spent. I wouldn't eat anything that came out of a rendering plant so, I certainly wouldn't expect my kids to eat it!

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

My understanding is that the high quality holistic foods don't contain the stuff from rendering plants. That's why you're paying a much higher price for it. In my opinion, the very top quality kibble is money well spent. I wouldn't eat anything that came out of a rendering plant so, I certainly wouldn't expect my kids to eat it!

i believe that high quality foods are still rendered, just use higher quality ingredients in the process.

[Lara's mom]

Yikes!!! I hope you're wrong. Kibble is good for their teeth but, if even the highest quality companies are using that crap that comes from rendering plants, I won't in good conscience be able to feed it to my brood anymore. I'm going to have to do some serious investigating!!! The thing is, what do I give them for their teeth if kibble is not an option?

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Yikes!!! I hope you're wrong. Kibble is good for their teeth but, if even the highest quality companies are using that crap that comes from rendering plants, I won't in good conscience be able to feed it to my brood anymore. I'm going to have to do some serious investigating!!! The thing is, what do I give them for their teeth if kibble is not an option?

some nice raw bones from the grocery or pet store does a great, great job cleaning teeth. Scrapes all the tartar right off.

[Lara's mom]

What happens when those nice raw bones begin to rot?