[squatnbear]

Please we need help. I have a little Scottish terrier she is very sick. We are at our last end she is bleeding and seems to be in pain. She has some sort or sorts of allergies. We have gone to the vet several times and has been given baytril,diphenhyydramin, amoxicillin, prednisolone, and itrakonazole to name a few. She keeps getting worse and worse. We removed a tree which had bugs we thought might be the cause no use we killed all bugs around or near the home no use. Changed her food and bedding again no use. We even changed vet in hope that a second set of eyes would work but no use. Blood work and skin samples have been taken in short we cant think of anything more to do. Thats why we came here in hopes that someone may have an answer. If any of you need photos of her just post email in pm and I will send them to you asap.

[cherylmartin]

squatnbear

I am sorry you are having such a strange problem with your Terrier.
What did the blood work show? Where is she bleeding from?

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by squatnbear

Please we need help. I have a little Scottish terrier she is very sick. We are at our last end she is bleeding and seems to be in pain. She has some sort or sorts of allergies. We have gone to the vet several times and has been given baytril,diphenhyydramin, amoxicillin, prednisolone, and itrakonazole to name a few. She keeps getting worse and worse. We removed a tree which had bugs we thought might be the cause no use we killed all bugs around or near the home no use. Changed her food and bedding again no use. We even changed vet in hope that a second set of eyes would work but no use. Blood work and skin samples have been taken in short we cant think of anything more to do. Thats why we came here in hopes that someone may have an answer. If any of you need photos of her just post email in pm and I will send them to you asap.

I feel so bad for that little girl! Yes! Where is she bleeding from--when peeing, pooping, mouth--Where!? I am by no means a vet or expert but my first worry was that this poor baby has had way too many meds--There are side effects to all of them I am sure and along with whatever the problem is--all these meds have got to be affecting her in a bad way! I suggest you put each med name in your browser--example: dog/baytril (name of med)/side effects. For one thing prednisone is only covering up (trying to) the problem! It definitely is not helping the immune system do it's job! I hope she has not been given Rimadyl!:
TIME to Remind About these Dangerous Drugs/Killers

I hope you didn't let her get in contact with any chemicals you may of used to kill those bugs!! Poison to a dog same way as to a human!

This appears to be a problem that has to do with allergies, but was she bleeding before you took her to the vet or before you used any sprays/poisons to kill bugs, if you used poisons to kill bugs, etc?

How long ago did she develop these allergies--if the problem is allergies---Can you think back to any changes in the dog's environment at or close after this time. Think hard as you might find an answer to what caused your puppy's problem---If it had anything to do with those bugs and any poisons you may have used--could be a 2-fold problem?!

You saw 2 dif. vets--Did you give the info about the possibilities I just mentioned? It is strange that one of them can't come up with a better idea then to just keep giving meds and don't know what they are doing! I hope the second vet got a list of all the meds given by the 1st vet!! What are the odds that both these vets are not the best??!! I would suggest going to a holistic vet and taking all paperwork from these 2 vets with you. You have a right to all that info. Have them send the info to your email and make copies or go get it from them (Sending it would take too long---Think you have to take this puppy to a new holistic vet as soon as possible!

Were any x-rays taken--to see if any obstructions? (This poor baby could have more than 1 thing wrong!) Is she pooing and peeing normally--any blood,
diarrhea, constipated? Is there any particular times/situations where she seems to be having the most pain or any pain?

There has to be more going on here then just allergies and it wouldn' surprise me if the vets added to it with ALL that poisonous medication. Was your dog bleeding and/or in pain before you went to the vets!!?? I don't think allergies would cause bleeding (unless you are talking about the skin from dog scratching it, etc) Sorry, but I have to assume/guess at things since I don't have enough info on this. Please answer some of my questions or at least bring these concerns to a vet. And please keep us posted--love dogs and don't like to worry wondering about them--hoping they are okay!

[chiclet]

Do you have a good veterinary college near you? Perhaps you could ask for a referral if one is needed. I sure hope you find the answer soon.

[squatnbear]

Thank you all for your time. My little girls name is Milly and Ill try and answer all the questions asked. As far as bugs go I sprayed the yard and neighbors yards with a pet friendly bug spray I cant not remember its name. This all started with some hair loss and some bleeding almost like a bug bite on her back just between her shoulders. All the meds have been diff amounts at diff times. She has also been given a shampoo to help. As far as blood work goes both vets say that she has large amounts of white blood cells. and do not see whats wrong. She has spent a few night at a vet but no improvement. Also every so often it seems like shes getting just a little better. Hair comes back but just about that time meds run out and she getts worse. This is the worst she has been. I uploaded some photos under same title (we need help ??? ) in lower case letters. As you will see its her skin. around her sides feet and jaw her back has it too. Please anything you can tell me would be great even plants or what ever my hurt dogs in the yard let me know Ill see if I have it and take it out. I live in N CA around central valley. Thanks again.

I have added pics to my photo album for you to see please take the time to look. Thank for you time and help.

[CorkyMax]

Here is a thread I did a while back in here. It started out to be just about foods but grew to include a lot of other things, including poisonous plants, etc. Foods that are hazardous to a dog

I am going to post this now in hopes of catching you before you leave forum for the night but I will start another post to follow this one as I am not done . Be back in a few minutes or so.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by squatnbear

Thank you all for your time. My little girls name is Milly and Ill try and answer all the questions asked. As far as bugs go I sprayed the yard and neighbors yards with a pet friendly bug spray I cant not remember its name. This all started with some hair loss and some bleeding almost like a bug bite on her back just between her shoulders. All the meds have been diff amounts at diff times. She has also been given a shampoo to help. As far as blood work goes both vets say that she has large amounts of white blood cells. and do not see whats wrong. She has spent a few night at a vet but no improvement. Also every so often it seems like shes getting just a little better. Hair comes back but just about that time meds run out and she getts worse. This is the worst she has been. I uploaded some photos under same title (we need help ??? ) in lower case letters. As you will see its her skin. around her sides feet and jaw her back has it too. Please anything you can tell me would be great even plants or what ever my hurt dogs in the yard let me know Ill see if I have it and take it out. I live in N CA around central valley. Thanks again.

I have added pics to my photo album for you to see please take the time to look. Thank for you time and help.

I see no pics in an album--title is there but no pics as of yet.

When did this start-how long ago?
I just looked up this breed in a book I have on breeds: Prone to skin allergies, including flea allergies. A generally robust breed, but sensitivity to fleas may cause skin problems. (unquote) You said it started with what looked like a bite. If allergic to flea bites--The flea can be long gone and this allergy could last a long time. What kind of bugs did you get rid of--If this dog is prone to skin sensitivities--maybe they could cause a problem. Red ants can be bad too. Spiders.

But I have a feeling that this is a skin allergy that is not going to go away. My mother had a Bichon Frize that sounds like what you are going through. The vet kept it on prednisone and the dog would have times (like yours) when it seemed to get better for a little while and then go back to bad again.
But prednisone will not cure this--It only covers up the problem and messes up the immune system--esp. if the dog is on it forever--Can cause several diseases to happen--one being diabetes. It does give the dog a little relief BUT better if you can see a holistic vet and they would use safer methods. My mother's dog was on prednisone too long. She finally gave the dog up to a rescue for Bichon Frizes. They were very upset that the vet was using so much prednisone. And I think if I remember right--You can't (shouldn't) go off prednisone 'cold turkey'--have to be weaned off it I think. I am going to go look up some info on prednisone and bring it back here. (later)

I am going to give you this link to a thread I did in this forum on vinegar--see esp. the reference to a soothing rinse. I don't know if you can use this as if your dog has raw sores--the vinegar may sting? But here is the link and it is a long thread--hope you read it all as there is a lot of good uses for vinegar for your dog--not just the rinse. What About Vinegar!!

Here are some links about prednisone. This first one is done by a vet: Prednisone for Veterinary Use

Prednisone / Prednisolone

[CorkyMax]

What should I discuss with my veterinarian before giving prednisone to my pet: Do not give prednisone to your pet if the pet has a serious bacterial, viral or fungal infection. Prednisone weakens the pet's immune response and its ability to fight infections. Tell your veterinarian if your pet has kidney or liver disease, heart disease, stomach ulcers, hypothyroidism, diabetes mellitus or any other medical conditions. Also tell your veterinarian if the pet is pregnant or lactating.

How should this medication be given: Give this medication exactly as directed by your veterinarian. Do not give more or less than is prescribed by the veterinarian. If you do not understand the directions ask the pharmacist or veterinarian to explain them to you. Keep plenty of water available for the pet. Prednisone should be given with food. Store prednisone at room temperature away from moisture and heat. Keep this medication away from children and pets.

What happens if I miss giving a dose: If you give one dose daily, give the missed dose as soon as remembered. However, if you don't remember until the next day, skip the missed dose and give only the regular daily dose. If you give more than one dose daily, either give the missed dose as soon as remembered, or give two doses the next dose time. If you give one dose every other day, give the missed dose as soon as remembered, then go back to the regular every other day schedule.

What happens if I overdose the pet: Seek emergency veterinary medical treatment. A single large dose of prednisone is unlikely to cause symptoms or death. An overdose is more likely to occur due to large doses being taken over a period of time. Symptoms of overdose include weight gain, panting, increased thirst, hunger and urination, vomiting, diarrhea, and Cushing's syndrome.

What should I avoid while giving Prednisone to my pet: Avoid sources of infection. Do not use any vaccines without checking with the veterinarian.

What are the possible side effects of Prednisone: If any of the following serious side effects occur, stop giving prednisone and seek emergency veterinary medical attention; an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; swelling of the lips, tongue or face; hives), increased blood pressure or sudden weight gain. Other less serious side effects may occur. Continue giving prednisone and talk to your veterinarian if your pet experiences insomnia, nausea, vomiting or stomach upset, fatigue, muscle weakness or joint pain, problems with diabetes control or increased hunger or thirst. Other side effects that occur rarely, usually with high doses of prednisone include thinning of the skin, cataracts, glaucoma, behavior changes. Other side effects may also occur. Talk to your veterinarian about any side effect that seems unusual or bothersome to the animal.

What other drugs will affect Prednisone: Do not give any other over-the-counter or prescription medications, including herbal products, during treatment with prednisone without first talking to your veterinarian. Many other medications can interact with prednisone resulting in side effects or altered effectiveness.

Where can I get more information: Your pharmacist has additional information about Prednisone written for health professionals that you may read.


Call your veterinarian for medical advice about any side effects to your pet. You may report side effects to the FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

Directions: • Prednisone is a prescription corticosteroid used in dogs and cats to treat various conditions such as Addison’s disease, inflammation from arthritis, allergies, and certain autoimmune diseases.
• Give prednisone exactly as directed by your veterinarian.

Tip: Prednisone should not be stopped suddenly. There should be a gradual reduction in dosage before stopping.

All weights The usual dose is determined based on the condition being treated and the pet’s response to treatment. Give this medication exactly as directed by your veterinarian. Prednisone should be given with food to lessen stomach upset, and with plenty of water.

Storage: Store this product at room temperature, away from moisture and heat.

by Michael Dym, VMD Veterinarian Rating:
Effectiveness: (5of5) Ease of Use: (5of5)Rating: ( Overall: (5of5)Breed:: Vet's Review (Michael Dym, VMD)"Prednisone"There is not a more widely used as well as widely misunderstood drug used in veterinary medicine than the use of oral prednisone. Since many of the chronic diseases treated in small animal veterinary medicine are often due to an overactive immune system response, whether talking about skin/ear allergies, chronic digestive tract inflammation, chronic respiratory or coughing issues, and even inflammation of the brain and spine, this drug is often prescribed by many veterinarians for these various conditions. It is important for animal guardians to understand that when using a drug like prednisone, we are often treating symptomatically, where we dont know or understand the cause of the chronic problems of these various organ systems in most cases. . In other words we are often quickly bandaiding the symptoms but not often addressing the underlying causes of the problems that often elude even the most intense diagnostic search. . . Except for what are called autoimmune diseases, where the body literally attacks its own tissues, such as the red blood cells or platelets, leading to life threatening blood disorders, or the joints in diseases like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, the use of prednisone can often be curative in those conditions as the immune system is so overactive that the life of the animal can be at risk. However it is important for veterinarians to always look for underlying causes of any of these various disorders, so that cure is more likely, and to avoid the occasional side effects seen when this drug is used long term. When prednisone is overused topically and/or orally, side effects can include excessive thirst/urination/appetite, and panting, as well as a thinning of the skin, and weakening of the bones and ligaments of the body, in addition to predisposing to secondary infections particularly of the urinary tract, as well as in occasional cases of diabetes. If used in high doses or for long periods, digestive tract ulceration and bleeding can also occur. However if prednisone is used in appropriate fashions for the above chronic conditions, where the oral dose is tapered to the lowest effective dose to control clinical signs, hopefully every other or every third day in those chronic incurable conditions, than many dogs can remain on this drug long term. The most important point to understand, however, is that when on this drug long term, periodic blood and urine testing should be monitored to detect any early side effects. And while I try and use other milder drugs and various supplements or antihistamines listed on the 1800petmeds website , in some very severe skin allergies with incessant itching, sometimes low dose prednisone is the only drug that can truly get the itch under control for symptomatic relief for the animals at a reasonable cost, without resorting to very expensive drugs like atopica or trips to veterinary dermatologists which can cost hundreds to even thousands of dollars long term. I certainly prefer low dose infrequent dosing of prednisone to control chronic clinical signs over the long acting cortisone injections that many vets use, which indeed have more significant side effects and risks outlined above. While taking everything above into account, and with adequate monitoring, I give prednisone an overall rating of a 5 with an ease of use of a 5 as well.89 of 89 people found this review helpful.Was this review helpful to you? Share this review:
05/23/2010


Breed:: Cockapoo"Prednisone - bad drug"I agree with the vet Dym. My dog has cancer but had been doing well for over a year on Piroxicam. He had a tumor on his neck removed last month that was benign but they put him on prednisone after. His health has deteriorated in the last month to where as of today he is not eating, not going to the bathroom and he has no use of his back legs. His neck flops around when he tries to move. The only thing we did is give him the prednisone as instructed. We have not given him the pill for two days and we will see if his appetite returns but I do not recommend this drug at all-----------------------------
taking off of prednisone --- side effects
In most cases pets being given prednisone need to be weaned off of the medication. That would depend on what dose they had received and for how long. Your veterinarian will give a schedule for weaning off of prednisone. Do not just stop giving it on your own.

by Gary, Dir. of Pharmacy Services

[cookie]

Hi Squatnbear.

You mentioned a sore/bleeding between her shoulder blades. Do you use a topical flea med? Is it possible that she is allergic and having reaction to that? If you put something like that on her regularly, would it coincide with the re-occurance of the irritation?

Just a random thought that came to me as I read your post. Good luck with your sweet Milly, I hope you can find her some relief.

[squatnbear]

Again I would like to say thank you to everyone for your help. AS for photos go if you go under my name and look under my profile you should get the album of my little Milly. The bugs were Japanese beetles and there were red ants around. As far as flees go I have never seen any on any of my dogs. My lab has never had fleas and they are both like peas and carrots. The idea of flea meds did pass though my mind but vet has been seeing every thing she has done since day one and no flea meds have been given for a few months do to her bad skin. Thank you for list of things to look for btw. Ill look around for any thing that may be around. I hope the photos pop up for you all if not just send me email via pm and ill send them to you. Thank you so much for you help.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by squatnbear

Again I would like to say thank you to everyone for your help. AS for photos go if you go under my name and look under my profile you should get the album of my little Milly. I see the photos are now in your album. They must of been held up by the moderators to check out first! I feel for poor Milly--They look really bad , esp. the last photo. The bugs were Japanese beetles and there were red ants around. Are there still red ants around that she could still be getting bit by--I've heard these ants (If the kind I heard about) are very vicious and have caused bad things to happen to humans as well. As far as flees go I have never seen any on any of my dogs. My lab has never had fleas and they are both like peas and carrots.You might not see the flea(s) and it only takes 1 bite to cause problems if the dog is allergic to a flea bite! The idea of flea meds did pass though my mind but vet has been seeing every thing she has done since day one and no flea meds have been given for a few months do to her bad skin.I guess you don't have flea collars on your dogs!? Hope not! Thank you for list of things to look for btw. Ill look around for any thing that may be around. I hope the photos pop up for you all if not just send me email via pm and ill send them to you.As I said above--the photos should be there for everyone to see now--They just weren't there yet yesterday! Thank you so much for you help.

I hope you finally find out what is wrong. Please keep us posted--worry about little Millie.

Here is a link to info about that red (fire) ant I mentioned. Be sure to read all as the most important part is further down.
Treatment for a Hot Time- Fire Ant Therapy

Giving you this link also in case you decided to try to get rid of these ants. Mainly want to tell you that you would have to use precautions as this poison is poison to dogs (and kids)!!

Controlling Ants and Ants Nests - The Pest Control Registry

Here is a link to info about flea bites and allergies. I think you will get a lot of info here!!
Flea Allergy in Dogs

Note this: A flea bite may leave no mark at all, but it can leave instead a small, red spot surrounded by a reddened halo if the host is sensitive to its bite
This is the link that that statement came from: http://www.fleasmart.com/allergy.htm


Tips & Warnings
It only takes one or two flea bites to set off a dog's allergies to fleas..Certain dog breeds are more prone to allergies than others. If buying a purebred dog, ask the owner whether the parents have allergies, since allergies are inherited..Bring your dog to the veterinarian when the itching first manifests itself to avoid the possibility of secondary skin infections, which can be caused by excess chewing and scratching..Never apply flea products to irritated or broken skin; the chemicals could further irritate and injure the skin.

Read more: How to Care for a Dog Who Has Allergies | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_18578_care-d...#ixzz0sXK4oA66

[silent watcher]

try applying apple cider vinegar directly to his irritated skin(dilute with water 50-50) and add 1tbsp (small dogs) or 2 tbsp(average size dogs) to his meal and water. I tried it on my dog and it works. My dog is suffering from severe skin allergy as a side effect to anti-rabies vaccine and he lost his appetite. a month ago he was too thin and very few hair left with reddening and blisters on his skin. now he is recovering, maybe a month after and his skin is fully recovered. plus he now eats in large volume. I love it. i hope it will help your milly. just give it a try.

thanks to corky/max, i got it from him/her.

[chiclet]

I just remembered that someone spent quite a bit of money and had a biopsy done because of a sore on the dogs back that wouldn't go away. When another dog developed the same injury, she finally figured out that there was an exposed screw on the underside of a patio table that the dogs were hitting up against.

Any possibility something like that is happening?

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by silent watcher

try applying apple cider vinegar directly to his irritated skin(dilute with water 50-50) and add 1tbsp (small dogs) or 2 tbsp(average size dogs) to his meal and water. I tried it on my dog and it works. My dog is suffering from severe skin allergy as a side effect to anti-rabies vaccine and he lost his appetite. a month ago he was too thin and very few hair left with reddening and blisters on his skin. now he is recovering, maybe a month after and his skin is fully recovered. plus he now eats in large volume. I love it. i hope it will help your milly. just give it a try.

thanks to corky/max, i got it from him/her.

Am wondering if your dog had any very sore spots when you applied the vinegar mixture? I had mentioned in another post in this thread about the vinegar but was afraid it might sting because of the raw wounds. Hope this can be used if doesn't sting too much!

[silent watcher]

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

Am wondering if your dog had any very sore spots when you applied the vinegar mixture? I had mentioned in another post in this thread about the vinegar but was afraid it might sting because of the raw wounds. Hope this can be used if doesn't sting too much!

i do think that my dog has sore spots since he keep on scratching and biting his skin. it's all red and i see some wounds. if acv is dilluted with water, it is not as stinging as mentioned in your post! it's worth a try i guess!

[CorkyMax]

How are things going? I just came across this very informative article on skin diseases and problems: Dog Skin and Hair Problems | NZYMES.COM

[lulusmom]

I saw your pictures and my heart breaks for your Millie. Unfortunately, I don't have any words of wisdom for you except that if you haven't taken Millie to a dermotologist vet, you may want to consider doing just that. General practitioners can be all that and a bag chips but when it comes to serious skin issues and endocrine disorders, their knowledge is usually limited. I hope you find an answer for your baby girl.

[cherylmartin]

squatnbear

How is Millie doing?

[CorkyMax]

Just came across this article that may be a possibility:

Staph Pyoderma in Dogs | eHow.com

[squatnbear]

Thanks again for you time. An update on my little girl is not so good. Her hair is falling off all over. In its place are more of the same. We are taking her to a skin specialist in SF. We hope we can get some answers. Please keep any ideas coming they can only help.
thank you all