[renkma]

Hello

My 10yo Brittany Spaniel Honey started drinking excessive amounts of water a few days ago, resulting in more urinating. The urine was very pale and odorless. Yesterday she was drinking more normally, but her urine was still pale and scentless so we took her and a urine sample in to her vet. We were almost certain he would find that she has diabetes.

The vet examined her and all her vitals are great - temp is normal - coat is lovely - weight is good - mouth looks good for her age. Her urine showed that it is quite diluted and her ph is a bit off, but her sugars were fine - it isn't dieabetes. Her appetite has always been very good and is even ravenous these days. She is playful and contented. He sees no other symptoms in her that would indicate chronic renal failure or Cushings. He suggested to wait a few more days to see if it is merely somthing that her body needed to flush out - he said he had seen that before - cases that defy explanation and that resolve within days. He said that if she doesn't show improvement from the diluted urine next week, to bring her in for a blood work.

That is where we stand now. She is fine, loved her morning walk, loved her breakfast, loved her teeth brushing and play time, and is now having a nap. She isn't drinking anymore than what is normal for her, but her pee is still extremely pale and odourless. And I am absolutely panicking!!!! I am so afraid that it is chronic renal failure or Cushings disease and that this is the beginning of the end of my life with my best friend. All I can do is watch her, care for her, and hope for improvement in a few days. I have a gut feeling that we will need the bloodwork and that a very heartbreaking conclusion will come of this.

Has anyone out there experienced this same kind of elusive symptom in their otherwise happy healthy dog, and what did it end up being?

Thank you all for your time and patience reading my story.

Honey's Mom

[CorkyMax]

quote: I have a gut feeling that we will need the bloodwork and that a very heartbreaking conclusion will come of this.
I doubt that it is kidney disease but you should get the blood work done for a couple of reasons--to rule out kidney disease or problems that could be affecting the kidneys and to give you peace of mind!! I think the blood work needs to be done---only way to tell for sure what condition the kidneys, --and other things are in! If there is even an indication of kidney problems or something that can harm the kidneys---You need to address it as soon as possible before more damage can be done and it becomes critical!. And being as your dog is doing all that urinating---She is losing vitamin B in all that peeing! Vitamin B is water-soluable and is flushed out daily in the pee. You may want to supplement a B complex vitamin. I would not be afraid to use a human grade B25 complex--as long as she is doing all the urinating.

This is a chapter out of a home vet book on The Urinary System of dogs and a lot of info to do with problems. This Chapter 14--you will have to scroll about 2/3 down the page. Scrolling on this page/site goes really fast so make sure you don't miss some of the pages which you can keep an eye on (upper right corner of page). Best to use the bottom scroll point and just tap it lightly. A lot in this chapter you will see that is not a problem your dog is having BUT i want to point out the word phenylpropanolamine which is another name for the KILLER Proin!!!! It is mentioned under the heading about urinary incontinence in this chapter 14 that you are reading. This drug should be banned---Read all about what it is and how many dogs have died or become permanently harmed (KIDNEYS FAIL) because of it here:Is your dog on PROIN? READ THIS! One member's dog suffered for almost 2 months before dying! You should always research well any medicine you are going to give your dog--Vet's approval or not!!! Of course you should check out all drugs you are going to take yourself too!!
Getting back to the Vet Book and chapter 14,If I remember right--you might take interest especially in pages 413 and 418 and possibly page 423 (425). But hey--Read the whole chapter--You might see something there to rule out some possibilities with your dog.

http://alaskapirate.com/dog-owners-h...y_Handbook.pdf

I hope things go good for your Honey--Please keep us updated--Don't want to worry if never hear back--Love dogs--all dogs! Hope you get that blood work done. I am wondering if your vet didn't do it right away because it would cost you more money if he didn't think it was necessary yet---But like I said--Better for the health of the dog and to get treatment sooner if it is needed. No expert on this but why are you so concerned about the pale odorless pee!!? I would think that was a good thing. I have Diabetes and that is a good thing!! When the urine has a distinctive odor--hard to explain-kind of slightly sweet smell that can mean the blood sugar is high!!
Oh! Reminds me--If you do supplement with Bcomplex--The pee will/can be a bright yellow--That means the B vitamin is being flushed out of the system--not an unusual thing but would be better if lighter color because you want to keep the vitamin B in the system. If it is light color or clear--That definitely means the system needed vitamin B and is using it!!

[renkma]

Oh yes, I definately will have the blood work done if there is no improvement in the next few days. I do believe her vet said to give it a few days for 1) he really doesn't see any evidence that Honey is in trouble - he said "that is not a sick dog" looking at her. He was impressed with how healthy she is and told me that if she had CKD, she would be showing other signs and certainly wouldn't have the appetite she does. and 2) yes, to keep us from spending money he doesn't think we need to spend just yet.

I do agree that if she needs treatment, the sooner the better, but I also believe in her two regular vets so much that I rarely question them. They have never steered me wrong or put any of my pets in danger.

The reason I worry about her pale and odorless urine is because apparently that is because the kidneys are not able to filter out the toxins and waste efficiantly, so the dog compensates by drinking more, which is the reason why the urine specific gravity is low.
But now...she is drinking not nearly as much. I would actually say she is drinking a normal amount, yet her urine is still very diluted. She is peeing a normal amount now as well. I am very confused. I spend everyday, all day with Honey and I know her so well. I suppose that is why I worry so much if she shows even the smallest change.

I'm watching her like a hawk. She is definately improving, but if she doesn't improve back to her usual yellow peeing self in another day or two, I'm in for that blood work.

Thank you so much for all your concern and help. Very much appreciated.

Honey's Mom

[lulusmom]

The symptoms you mention, as well as the low specific gravity, are common in cushing's disease but they are also symptoms that are the precursor of a condition known Sudden Acquired Retinal Degeneration syndrome (SARDs). I don't want to put you in panic mode but rather arm you with knowledge about the possibilities. SARDS dogs go blind rather quickly, sometimes in a matter of days, weeks and rarely months. Females seem to be affected more and Brittany Spaniels are a breed that is over represented in SARDS.

I am a member of a cushing's support group, K9Cushings.com - All about Cushings and Your Dog and we have had a few new members with Brittany Spaniels join after their dogs lost their vision and were showing symptoms commonly associated with cushing's. There is not much in the way research for this condition but it is known that most, if not all, dogs with SARDS have elevated adrenal sex hormones and will become symptomatic before or after blindness. Often times symptoms resolve within months so vets familiar with this condition don't always rush to prescribe treatment to remedy the symptoms.

It is possible that your dog could have cushing's, however, Brittany Spaniels are not a breed that we commonly see on our forum. I recommend that you discuss SARDS with your vet and have your dog's eyes checked by a specialist for possible early signs. The hallmark of cushing's is an elevation in the adrenal steroid called cortisol. Dogs with SARDS can have elevated cortisol but most have normal cortisol with an increase in the intermediate hormones. The only facility that I am aware of that does full adrenal panels that test these intermediate hormones is the University of Tennessee Knoxville (UTK). They do quite a bit of testing on SARDS dogs.

There is effective treatment for SARDS but it must be acted upon quickly. Please see Science Daily article below:

Blind Dogs Can See After New Treatment For A Sudden Onset Blinding Disease

I am also including a link to some good information on SARDS below:

SARDs/IMR — Awareness Central

Please feel free to join us at www.k9cushing's.com to learn more about cushing's disease and SARDS. We have a wealth of information in our library, including a dedicated thread to SARDS. Believe me, we are all very familiar with dilute urine and voracious appetites. My name is Glynda, I have two dogs with cushings and I am also lulusmom at k9cushings.

[renkma]

Oh my Gosh thank you for finding us. I hate to admit it but Honey fits the SARDS bill on many levels. Her eyes have progressively weeped from a young age and are quite teary now - I wash her face every morning but just thought she was older and it was normal. She's not drooling all the time, but when the food comes out - get a paddle. And the appetite is UNBELIEVABLE!!! She has been an allergy dog all her life with food allergies as well as respiratory - having had many very terrible rashes on her belly that were treated with on/off bombardment and weining of prednisone, and antibiotics - ointments and oral. Problem is, she is allergic to all antibiotics except for amoxicillian - which worries me if that might be a treatment for the onset of SARDS - she simply can't tolerate antibiotic therapy.

Her excessive drinking seems to have resolved and I collected some of her urine this morning - I was pleased to see it was yellow (not AS yellow as I would like, but a pretty sunny shade - and it had a definate urine odour). BUT I am not letting this go - it was a strange occurance and I love her so so much - I can't just say "Yay, she's better - back to life as usual". I actually called her vet this morning to prepare them to take her blood this afternoon. And THANKS TO YOU Glynda, I am going to print out info and links to the SARDS and related sites to have them pass over to our Doctor to consider. I know that there is a vet here in our town that may not be a specialist, but he is the man to see when our pet's eyes are the problem. My sister's cat has a very rare degenerative eye disease that only HE could diagnose and treat - that kitty is doing really well these days.

The thought of Honey going blind is heartbreaking, but I suppose it's better than losing all of her. And if she can still be happy and healthy without her vision, then I will do everything I can to make her life as pleasant, easy and worth living as I can.

I won't jump on the panic train yet though (even though I pretty much am already worried out of my mind) - but if they don't find anything in her blood (and even if they do), this is definately something I am going to bring to their attention to consider.

Thank you again Glynda - I am so grateful for a possible explanation. I'm surprised that with all the searches I've done on her symptoms, SARDS didn't come up anywhere - I wish it was more readily known about. I think Honey's eyesight is still very good although she is leery of pitch black staircases (but so am I so I never thought anything of it) - so as of right now, her eyes are a little foggy with age, but, I think her vision is still good.

I hope that if this is SARDS, we are catching it in time to maybe be able to keep her eyes healthy and working.

Evaline - Honey's Mom

[renkma]

Hi Glynda again

Well, I've been researching SARDs all day and WOW - what a horrible condition. It's terrifying!!

I have Honey all ready to go in for her blood test - she's starving due to fasting all day, poor little thing. I'm bringing her a baggy of kibble and a treat for right after they finish taking her blood.

I have made up a nice note to my vet (who just happens to be one of our town's opthamology specialists - I had no idea) and I'm sure he will consider it and call me to bring her in for tests or whatever he feels she needs. He was on vacation on Monday when I initially brought her in.

I'm going to try and calm down through because I'm making myself feel quite ill with worry. As horrible as SARDs is, I read it is estimated 4000 dogs in NA become blind from SARDs a year. Out of an estimated 125Million dogs in NA (probably more), that is less than .05%, which would make SARDs relatively rare - so I really must calm down. I have to put my faith in her doctor and hope for the best.

Cross your fingers for her. She's such a sweet little girl. And again, thank you for your suggestions. I'll post updates.

[lulusmom]

Hi again,

Please do try not to panic. I know that is easier said than done but give it a whirl anyway. We do our best research and our comprehension is certainly much better with a clear and calm mind. Your dog is lucky to have such a great advocate in you.

The fact that Honey's urine does not seem to be dilute is a good thing and who knows, the appetite could be normal for her now. I know that when I eat too much, like I have the last two years, my appetite becomes huge and I'm sure my stomach is stretched out beyond belief. Again, my purpose in arming you with information was not an inference that Honey may be a SARDS dog with impending blindness on the horizon but rather simply provide you with reference material in case you may need it in the future. I hope you don't but I feel better knowing that you and your vet have the information.

Hugs,
Glynda

[renkma]

We received Honey's blood work results this morning - she is perfect all the way across the board. Our vet has been with her all of her life, through all of her allergies and all of her false alarms, vaccinations and annual visits. He said he was very pleased with her results and sees no reason for concern. He said her eyes are in good shape from her initial visit and sho no sign of deterioration at all. And all of her organs are working perfectly. With her history, he feels that her obsession with food, water, and ... the desire to consume terds, is all behaviorial due to anxiety and wants us to exersize her more to help her cope. She has always been a very anxious dog and has been through a lot of changes in the last three years with divorce and loss of a parent, loss of a beloved cat, residential moves, loss of a dog companion she bonded with, and a new dog that is very spunky and intimidating toward her.

As much as I feel relief with this news from a very trusted doctor, I am also happy for the experience of fear because I have learned a lot about what may come with my aging girl and how to deal with it.

So for now, Honey has a very clean bill of health and I need a vacation from panic. I think I will start by taking her out for a nice long jog - it will do us both a world of good.

[CorkyMax]

Hey that is very good news to hear! Enjoy your jog with Honey and I'm sure she will enjoy it too.