Hi everybody i am a newbie here,
I am thinking of buying a male miniature pinscher and i was wondering what are the differences between the brown (mahogany) and the black tan miniature pinscher? a person who breeds pinschers told me that the brown ones are better because
a) they are more muscular and have much better head to body proportions than the black tan ones (which have small heads and long bodies in comparison to the brown ones) and
b) the black tan ones tend to have dundruff in the neck and because of that they lose hair in that area.

What are your opinions?
Are the above true?

many thanks

I have a 5 year old min pin and was wondering if she is to old to breed? She's never had a litter before and we wanted to have an offspring from her before she got too old. Is it too late?

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by mustaine

Hi everybody i am a newbie here,
I am thinking of buying a male miniature pinscher and i was wondering what are the differences between the brown (mahogany) and the black tan miniature pinscher? a person who breeds pinschers told me that the brown ones are better because
a) they are more muscular and have much better head to body proportions than the black tan ones (which have small heads and long bodies in comparison to the brown ones) and
b) the black tan ones tend to have dundruff in the neck and because of that they lose hair in that area.

What are your opinions?
Are the above true?

many thanks

sorry but none of this is true. All comes down to breeding the correct sire and dam. Note, there is no "mahogany" or "brown" color in Miniature Pinschers. Black & Tan, Black & Rust, Stag Red, Red, Clear Red, Chocolate, Blue and Fawn. All are subject to dry skin issues which is common in this breed. As for structure, as noted color has nothing to do with the build or physique of a dog. It comes down to the breeding. Females are generally longer than they are tall where males are generally more square meaning the height at the withers (shoulders) is the same as the length from shoulders to start of tail. I would question the validity of the person who is claiming to be a breeder of Miniature Pinschers that you are referring to. Obviously they are not a breeder or would already know that this information is in fact false. Odds are they are not a breeder but only have Miniature Pinschers that they are letting breed. Sorry but this does not make one a breeder.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by Jenedis

I have a 5 year old min pin and was wondering if she is to old to breed? She's never had a litter before and we wanted to have an offspring from her before she got too old. Is it too late?

I generally do not go much past 5 years so she is still in the safe zone but the other issue is whether she would be accepting of the mating. This could be a whole different matter. When females get a little older many times they are not as willing as they were when at 2 or 3 years of age. Something to consider in this breed. I have seen this quite often.

has been a little bit old actually. 5 yrs has been in the middle age for a dog. I dont think she can have a baby. but not necessarily if she still has her period

Originally Posted by Yogi

The Miniature Pinscher though should be a stout muscular dog standing 10 to 12.5 inches and weighing approx 1lbs for each inch at the withers (shoulders).

My Min Pin became very overweight at one point and has been put on a diet. The vet did not measure her, but I know that she stand 12 inches. They want her to lose down to 11pounds, but to me she seems to look really skinny at the 11.6 she is at. I was under the impression that she should be a pound for every inch...and it seems I was right after reading this post. I think I may have talk with my vet about her losing any more weight.

Originally Posted by Mesa's mama

People ask me all the time if she is a "Mini Doberman" which is just funny to me...she doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body.

If you were implying that Dobermans are aggressive I would think about restating that....

Originally Posted by Yogi

The actual life span of this breed is in fact only 12 to 14 not 15 plus years. As one who has owned a great deal in some 48 years I can attest that this average holds true. It is only on rare occasion will they live longer it is in no way or can be in no way expected.
May I ask what most of yours have passed away from? Or have you had to euthanize?
Coloring as noted, Black with either tan or rust. Red, Stag Red (red with a mingling of black hairs on the sides of the neck and down the spine) Chocolate and rust or tan, Blue with rust or tan (this is the diluted Black) and Isabella "fawn" with rust or tan (which is a dilute of the Chocolate). This breed also originated in Harlequin as that found in the Great Dane as well as Merle which in the Dachshund is referred to as Dapple. This is where much of the small patch of white on the neck or chest derives.
Is there such a thing as an all black Min Pin? I saw something that someone was claiming was one...but was "rare because it is all black"...I about told them how full of it they were...
I thought that the small patch of fur is a disqualification in the AKC? If it is coming out because of its early ancestors, why would this be?
The term "min pin or mini pin is not an acceptable term by those who accept and breed the real thing. These are terms that define the poorly under sized lap dog versions that are prone to being yappy while frightened of their own shadow where a true Miniature Pinscher will in most cases, attack its own shadow.
I don't feel that calling a Miniature Pinscher a "Min Pin" is defining it as poorly or an undersized lap dog...I also don't feel that referring to this breed as such means that they are prone to being yappy or scared of their own shadow. I affectionately call her a Min Pin and she is as bold as ever...she's not scared of herself.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by tristanichole

My Min Pin became very overweight at one point and has been put on a diet. The vet did not measure her, but I know that she stand 12 inches. They want her to lose down to 11pounds, but to me she seems to look really skinny at the 11.6 she is at. I was under the impression that she should be a pound for every inch...and it seems I was right after reading this post. I think I may have talk with my vet about her losing any more weight.


If you were implying that Dobermans are aggressive I would think about restating that....

The term Min Pin or Mini Pin is considered an insult in Germany to this breed and to those who own them. As a breeder, we generally refer to it openly when viewing the dog and its natural behavior, meaning if it acts like a terrier than it is a Miniature Pinscher, if it does not display the true characteristics than it is a Min Pin or Mini Pin. We also use these terms to describe those that are undersized as in most cases, they are the ones prone to nervous yappy behavior. As yours is to standard as far as size, this would not fit the classification of Min Pin or Mini Pin. But to be viewed as a true Miniature Pinscher we would expect to see the terrier instincts.
The white is accepted on Miniature Pinschers so long as it does not exceed 1/2 inch. Many claim that this can be bred out but the fact remains, they have been trying for how many years now? and still have not been able to do it.
At 12 inches, 12 lbs is acceptable unless she is slight built. Many Pins carry the IG bone structure where others carry the Dachshund. We hope for the combination but depending on the structure an average is 1 lbs for each inch to whithers for pet, obviously for show we like them to be slightly underweight. Over weight increases the chance of diabetes. In this breed many health issues can develop. From premature blindness, epilepsy, leggs perthes, luxation patela (which in most cases is not inherited as many think) to diabetes. I have lost dogs to pretty much every thing. High energy breeds especially in terrier groups (smaller ones) will stay overly active into their senior years. The natural wear on the body and organs thus break down faster. Many small breeds do in fact live longer than larger breeds but as many will not, the large ones do not live as long as the wear on their body and organs cannot last as long, well this holds true with high energy small breed as well. I have had mine live to 18 years and have had them go from brain tumor at 12, another to kidney failure at 12 1/2. Another to a liver tumor at 12 1/2. One at 16 from CHF. Another from epilepsy at 14...All are common in this breed so it should never be taken lightly when standards are issued with regards to life span. These standards have come from years of research with breeders and owners to help determine this information.
Hope this helps clarify.

Originally Posted by Yogi

The term Min Pin or Mini Pin is considered an insult in Germany to this breed and to those who own them. In the five years I've owned a Miniature Pinscher and all the people I've talked to who have either bred them for a long time or just loved the breed, I've never heard that calling them a Min Pin is an "insult"...I'm not in Germany and quite frankly, to me, calling her a Min Pin is the equivalent to calling her Libs instead of Libby...I see it as a nickname, not an insult to her breed or size/behavior.
As a breeder, we generally refer to it openly when viewing the dog and its natural behavior, meaning if it acts like a terrier than it is a Miniature Pinscher, if it does not display the true characteristics than it is a Min Pin or Mini Pin. We also use these terms to describe those that are undersized as in most cases, they are the ones prone to nervous yappy behavior.
Libby isn't a nervous yapper, she just generally barks at anything she feels is intruding...but she can warm up quickly to certain people and not bark at them.
As yours is to standard as far as size, this would not fit the classification of Min Pin or Mini Pin. But to be viewed as a true Miniature Pinscher we would expect to see the terrier instincts.
The white is accepted on Miniature Pinschers so long as it does not exceed 1/2 inch. Many claim that this can be bred out but the fact remains, they have been trying for how many years now? and still have not been able to do it.
At 12 inches, 12 lbs is acceptable unless she is slight built. Many Pins carry the IG bone structure where others carry the Dachshund. We hope for the combination but depending on the structure an average is 1 lbs for each inch to whithers for pet, obviously for show we like them to be slightly underweight. Over weight increases the chance of diabetes. In this breed many health issues can develop. From premature blindness, epilepsy, leggs perthes, luxation patela (which in most cases is not inherited as many think) to diabetes. I have lost dogs to pretty much every thing. High energy breeds especially in terrier groups (smaller ones) will stay overly active into their senior years. The natural wear on the body and organs thus break down faster. Many small breeds do in fact live longer than larger breeds but as many will not, the large ones do not live as long as the wear on their body and organs cannot last as long, well this holds true with high energy small breed as well. I have had mine live to 18 years and have had them go from brain tumor at 12, another to kidney failure at 12 1/2. Another to a liver tumor at 12 1/2. One at 16 from CHF. Another from epilepsy at 14...All are common in this breed so it should never be taken lightly when standards are issued with regards to life span. These standards have come from years of research with breeders and owners to help determine this information.
Hope this helps clarify.

Thanks for the rest of the info

[Yogi]

As one who does communicate with others in Germany I can tell you that they honestly find it offensive. Granted, we are not in Germany so using nicknames for breeds is common place, even I use the term on occasion when in fact referring to mine who do not fit the status of Min or Mini Pin. In your case your dog does not comply with what we actually see as a Min or Mini, it acts in accordance to the true Miniature Pinscher terrier. Her barking is what we expect given the circumstances you describe. Understand that the term Min or Mini Pin though thrown about by many who see all of this breed through one light does imply to those of us who know the breed and for the record, many breeders couldn't tell you their breeds history as well as you may think thus asking them to base a dogs characteristics in determining how it should act is somewhat useless unless they know the complete history not the American version of it. The dog changed dramatically once here and has yet to return to full status. As example, check the pic....does yours look anything like this one?
Probably not, I have one that is very similar but breeding to the actual terrier version is difficult when for the past 80 years the emphasis was on creating a toy breed out of a true terrier breed.

I totally agree, many breeders don't know what the heck they're doing or even much about the breed's history. That is one gorgeous dog. I've seen a Chocolate/Rust version of one that looked very similar to him. I was IN.LOVE.

Here are a few pictures of my girl over the years. Her weight has gone up and down.

These pictures are from when she was around a year and a half.



This picture is her at over 2 years...excuse the coat, it was dreadfully cold that day.


And this is a picture of her from last summer. Libby's tail and ears were done before she came to me. Her throat also has a bit of a sag due to a salivary gland issue she has. She was around 13-14 pounds there...she was overweight. She is now down to a skinnier size 11.6pounds, but I feel that maybe she shouldn't be getting that low. She is 12 inches tall, so I would think sticking with the 12 pounds would be a better fit for her. I have no recent pictures of her body frame, just her face...so this one from last year is what I'll show you...