[Yogi]

The Miniature Pinscher has been around since the late 1600's to early 1700's. Old german paintings have established the breed to be though not necessarily a family dog as much as a working breed. Dr Reichenbach in 1836 after much study determined that the breed stock was the smooth coated Dachshund and the Italian Greyhound. It was noted in other writings that the Dachshund though an excellent rater was not necessarily fast enough so German farmers introduced the Italian Greyhound to increase the leg size and speed. A purely working terrier the Miniature Pinscher is not a "Toy" dog but a true terrier that was bred to work independently from human direction. On farms it generally lived in barns and not in homes. Though not recognized until after Louis Doberman's pinscher it was around long before and is not a Miniature version. The error in thinking came from the AKC in the 1920's when the breed was first recognized. AKC noted that the breed must appear as a Doberman in miniature. With that the confusion started. Initially many in the US found the dog to be a cute little Doberman clone and breeding went by the wayside. Unfortunately as with today, very little research is done by potential owners for if they had they would have found that the true Miniature Pinscher was not a lap dog but a very energetic working dog. Soon they discovered this and the dog fail from favor in this country. It took several years to bring the breed back and with the help of dedicated knowledgeable breeders the true Miniature Pinscher was re-introduced. These dogs are in no way related to German Pinschers (smooth coated Schnauzers) which were not recognized til the late 1800's. Nor to Dobermans Pinscher. In fact the modern day German Pinscher owes its survival as a recognized breed to the Miniature Pinscher. Nearly extinct, Werner Jung during WWII was able to get out of Germany with purported 3 female German Pinschers. The breed was near extinction at that time. Unable to locate any males he chose to use 3 over sized male Miniature Pinschers. So in fact the modern day German Pinscher breed stock consists of Miniature Pinschers. The Min Pin was introduced approximately 60 years ago as breed stock for the Rat Terrier which when one looks at the head can usually see the resemblance. The Miniature Pinscher is soley a German breed. Founded and created in Germany for the sole purpose of ferreting out mice and rats on farms. Todays dogs referred to by many as Min Pins carry some of the traits that were bred into the creation of this breed. Out of all the dogs in the "Toy" group, the Miniature Pinscher is the only one who's true instincts to perform their work are still primarily intact.

[mrandrei]

Just some additional facts: :mrgreen:

It is believed that the Miniature Pinscher evolved from the ancient German Pinscher family of dogs, which ultimately produced a number of the breeds recognized by the American Kennel Club (AKC) today. In 1836, Dr. H. G. Reinchenbach, a German writer, stated the Miniature Pinscher is a cross of the Dachshund and the Italian Greyhound. This conclusion of Dr. Reinchenbach is now generally accepted by historians and those who have researched the background of the breed. In any event, Germany is undisputed as the home of origin, where the Miniature Pinscher was known as the "Reh Pinscher" due to its resemblance to a small red deer, the Reh, which freely roamed the German forests many years ago.

This proud little dog is often referred to as "The King of Toys". The Miniature Pinscher is an assertive, outgoing, active and independent breed. Fearless animation, complete self-possession, and spirited presence describe the Miniature Pinscher to a T.

[lil mutt]

Wow this is really a good information...where did you find it... I dont know that much about dog breed backgrounds...

[Yogi]

In my case, 47 years breeding.
In fact the Miniature Pinscher is not a "Toy" breed at all but one of the oldest of the terriers.
Originally they came in coat colors of "merle" commonly noted as "dapple" in the Dachshund and "harlequin" like that found in the Great Dane.
Unfortunately North American and UK breeders have refined the breed to what you see today which is sparse compared to its true shape and form. In Europe, the breed is more solidly built and competes in the category 2 group where it belongs against Schnauzers and German Pinschers.
For the record, many are under the assumption that Miniature Pinschers came from German Pinschers. This is at best a very poor speculation. Considering that the Miniature "Zwergpinscher" (dwarf pinscher) was around over 100 years before the Deutscher Pinscher first made its appearance. In the 1700's standard Schnauzers started throwing smooth coated pups. How or why no one has yet to determine. Obviously this was not considered acceptable by mainstream Schnauzer breeders. It took til the Pinscher Schnauzer Klub of Germany in 1895 to finally acknowledge the smooth coat as a separate breed giving it the name Deutscher (German) Pinscher. All of these breeds were most likely descendant from the now black and tan German Terrier. It was noted that Karl Frederich Louis Dobermann when seeing the Miniature Pinscher announced that he wished to make a breed resembling it but 15 times larger. As he was a breeder of Rot's and as German Pinschers were around though not recognized, many believed these are 2 of the breeds he used. Most now believe the 3rd breed was the Beauceron, a French herding dog that greatly resembles the Dobermann. Slightly longer coat and noted for its double dew claws. It is an extremely protective breed. The introduction of the Great Dane and English Greyhound that many speculate was not done by Dobermann but by another breeder looking to improve the breed. He was not successful. The Beauceron reflects literally the same size and build of the standard Doberman Pinscher.
The Miniature Pinscher though should be a stout muscular dog standing 10 to 12.5 inches and weighing approx 1lbs for each inch at the withers (shoulders). Natural prey drive in this breed is as strong as that found in the Parson John Russel terrier (Jack Russell terrier). The Miniature Pinscher was purportedly added to the breed stock of the American Rat terrier approx 60 years ago. This may explain the Rat terriers strong resemblance to the Miniature Pinscher when the Pinscher is at standard size and build. Too many North American breeders have spent far too much time trying to reduce the overall size making this breed diminutive when it was not meant to be. By doing so, inherit leg issues found in the IG have come back full circle. Hopefully these breeders looking to breed them down will learn the error of their ways and work to re-establish the true Miniature Pinscher. Note, in Germany these dogs when on farms are much like feral cats on American farms. They have very little interaction with humans which led to their strong independent nature that some deem as signs of being stubborn. They were left to work the farm as created and in doing so lived off rats and mice and other ground vermin to sustain themselves. The barn was their refuge and hay was their blanket. This breed to this day naturally will burrow when sleeping. Much of the history I have has come from source, Germany. Friends there find it amusing how North Americans and those in the UK have decided history and standards for their breed which in general does not in many cases even come close to what is correct. As they put it, "why do American's always think they get to write the rules when the game is not theirs". They have a good point. Perfect example, the Affenpinscher kept its original name when introduced to the AKC. In the case of the Zwergpinscher (Miniature Pinscher) it was just called "Pinscher" though it had a true name already. Not til 1972 did the name officially become "Miniature" pinscher in the US.
for the record, Pinscher in German does not translate to "terrier" as so many believe. The Germans used the english word "pincher" and translated it to "pinscher" to describe the pinching, biting action the breed possess when it bites its prey.
this is the real Miniature (Zwergpinscher) Pinscher.

Thank you for your post, Yogi. I have a Miniature Pinscher, and I have heard several different versions of the min pin origin and breeding. People ask me all the time if she is a "Mini Doberman" which is just funny to me...she doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body.

[Yogi]

Unfortunately the theory of the breed coming from the Pinscher line has no credence. There are those who even believe they come from the German Pinscher which if you know their history, they are smooth coated standard Schnauzers that came about in the 1700's and no one knows why.
They are comprised solely from the IG and smooth coated Dachshund but there have been litters born with long hair showing the genetic makeup of the Dachshund coming through as they come in long hair also.
The true Miniature Pinscher though if over handled can be come defensive aggressive as they are truly an extremely intelligent but also independent breed.
Not "hyper" but extremely energetic and should display a natural ferreting (hunting) instinct. At the same time, can be great lap dogs so long as they initiate the move to the lap.

Just want to add some...

Description:

The Miniature Pinscher belongs to the small dog breed family. This breed of dog looks just like a Doberman pinscher but only a lot smaller, as its name suggest. Its body is in perfect proportion. The body of this breed consists of small-thin legs, a thicker-torso, a short-tubby tail, and a circular face which is accompanied with tall-pointy ears.

Fur on this breed grows short and rough to the touch. The color and patterns are just the same as the Doberman pinscher. The entire body is covered in a coal black coat with tan eyebrows, a tan muzzle, tan chest, and tan fur on all four of its legs on the lower half.

Height:

Height between the two genders will vary in this breed of dog. The males normally stand to be 10-12 inches (25-30 cm) tall, and the females normally stand to be 10-11 inches (25-28 cm) tall.

Weight:

Weight between the two genders will vary in this breed of dog. The males usually weigh in at 8-10 pounds (4-5 kg), and the females usually weigh in at 8-9 pounds (about 4 kg.) It is not healthy to allow your Miniature pinscher to weigh 4 pounds below its lowest weight limit or weigh or weigh 6 pounds above its highest weight.

Temperament:
The Miniature Pinscher is a very courageous little dog. It is not uncommon for this breed of dog to become very stubborn and demanding. If you become the owner of this little fellow don't be surprised if the two of you experience a couple head-to-head moments during the dogs lifetime. This little dog is very lively, jumpy, intelligent, brave, and playful. Miniature pinschers are gentle toward children but generally aggressive toward other dogs.

Life span:

This breed of dog averages 15 plus years of age. It is not uncommon for this breed to live in its 20's.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by youbetcha1018

Just want to add some...

Description:

The Miniature Pinscher belongs to the small dog breed family. This breed of dog looks just like a Doberman pinscher but only a lot smaller, as its name suggest. Its body is in perfect proportion. The body of this breed consists of small-thin legs, a thicker-torso, a short-tubby tail, and a circular face which is accompanied with tall-pointy ears.

Fur on this breed grows short and rough to the touch. The color and patterns are just the same as the Doberman pinscher. The entire body is covered in a coal black coat with tan eyebrows, a tan muzzle, tan chest, and tan fur on all four of its legs on the lower half.

Height:

Height between the two genders will vary in this breed of dog. The males normally stand to be 10-12 inches (25-30 cm) tall, and the females normally stand to be 10-11 inches (25-28 cm) tall.

Weight:

Weight between the two genders will vary in this breed of dog. The males usually weigh in at 8-10 pounds (4-5 kg), and the females usually weigh in at 8-9 pounds (about 4 kg.) It is not healthy to allow your Miniature pinscher to weigh 4 pounds below its lowest weight limit or weigh or weigh 6 pounds above its highest weight.

Temperament:
The Miniature Pinscher is a very courageous little dog. It is not uncommon for this breed of dog to become very stubborn and demanding. If you become the owner of this little fellow don't be surprised if the two of you experience a couple head-to-head moments during the dogs lifetime. This little dog is very lively, jumpy, intelligent, brave, and playful. Miniature pinschers are gentle toward children but generally aggressive toward other dogs.

Life span:

This breed of dog averages 15 plus years of age. It is not uncommon for this breed to live in its 20's.

Unfortunately the majority of your post is incorrect. As one who is a former breeder and studied this breed for many many years there is no verbal association to Dobermann's Pinscher ever referenced in the same sentence. You have taken information that is vague and is cause to much of the misconception regarding this breed and with no real history. This breed shares no ancestry with Dobermann's Pinscher. In addition, it does not belong to the "small breed family". The Miniature Pinscher is a member of the "Terrier" family of dogs consisting of the Parson John Russell terrier aka Jack Russell Terrier, both the miniature and standard Schnauzers as well as the German Pinscher. They are also not defined or even associated by the looks with regards to the Dobermann Pinscher. You are falling to the same error the AKC noted in conformation when the Miniature Pinscher then know solely as "Pinscher" was introduced in 1919 where the AKC noted for purpose of conformation, "the dog must appear as a Dobermann in miniature". This is what has led to so many who know nothing about this breed referring to them in the same context or confusing them as in any way being related to Dobermann's Pinscher. Any reputable breeder or those who have raised this breed can clearly see that there is no resemblance in any fashion outside of the noted black and tan color. There body and head share no resemblance. In reality, the breeds real name Zwerpinscher as with Affenpinscher, German (Deutscherpinscher) Pinscher as well as Dobermann's Pinscher has nothing to do with shared outside of the title or word "pinscher". This word is a derivative of the english word "pincher" which describes the biting action the breeds share. That is the only resemblance between the Miniature (Zwergpinscher) and Dobermann's Pinscher. In addition please note for the record that the breed standard in the US, Canada and the UK is actually a poor example of this breed due to one person's view of this breed that unfortunately was ill perceived. Also to note that the only reason it is listed in the "Toy" breed category was due to the MPCA's failure to do research on this breed prior to 1929. In Germany and Europe it is a working not a toy breed and there it does not have the bony legs and poorly designed body as was created in North America but in fact is built appropriately to the proper standards which is that of the terrier.
To see a true Miniature Pinscher, see below. This is the true Zwergpinscher, not the poorly bred variety that are produced in North America.
One other note, the Miniature Pinscher is never a first time dog, nor is it a proper breed for small children. They are not stubborn but extremely independent as they were bred as in fact they were created as feral dogs not house pets which is why so many novices refer to independent attitude as being stubborn. It comes from simply little knowledge of the breed and its history.
The actual life span of this breed is in fact only 12 to 14 not 15 plus years. As one who has owned a great deal in some 48 years I can attest that this average holds true. It is only on rare occasion will they live longer it is in no way or can be in no way expected. Also for the record, do not confuse the coloring in this breed. Like Dobermanns they are not all black and tan. In addition, Miniature Pinschers do not have round heads but tapered snout and heads. For height and weight, please read the standard. Males and females actually have no difference in height and weight standards and never have had. AKC standards not the breed height at withers (shoulders) 10 to 12.5 inches. Weight can vary and on average 1lbs per 1 inch at withers thus a female or male of standard build and bone structure could be 11 inches tall and 11lbs. As for the ears, no sorry but they do not have to be erect and pointed. AKC does not require ear cropping of Miniature Pinschers for show and have not required for sometime. The tail is not a short tubby tail but is a typical docked tail. This is still required. The general difference in body structure between females and males is the males body is square, this means height from floor to withers is same as from withers to end of spine. Females are generally longer than they are tall. The original Miniature Pinschers could be found with natural standing or floppy ears. In the natural standing they are referred to as "doe" ears. Like that of a deer, having a slight tip or point to them when erect. Floppy ears are generally referred to as button ear. When down the laid tip will meet the outside corner of the eye as example in the pic below. Coloring as noted, Black with either tan or rust. Red, Stag Red (red with a mingling of black hairs on the sides of the neck and down the spine) Chocolate and rust or tan, Blue with rust or tan (this is the diluted Black) and Isabella "fawn" with rust or tan (which is a dilute of the Chocolate). This breed also originated in Harlequin as that found in the Great Dane as well as Merle which in the Dachshund is referred to as Dapple. This is where much of the small patch of white on the neck or chest derives.
Always keep in mind this is in fact not a toy breed but in reality a terrier and is true to the terrier nature. High energy that needs to be worn out daily. This breed can live in a state of terrible two's well into their senior years as they are not like other breeds who tend to slow down once they reach middle to early senior years. Inquisitive like a cat and sight oriented, they will go on the chase immediately if something catches their line of sight in fast motion. Most will still go after rats and mice and as this was a source of their food the instincts are still strong to carry out what they were bred for. The term "min pin or mini pin is not an acceptable term by those who accept and breed the real thing. These are terms that define the poorly under sized lap dog versions that are prone to being yappy while frightened of their own shadow where a true Miniature Pinscher will in most cases, attack its own shadow.

that's a good post..thanks for sharing..

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by mrandrei

Just some additional facts: :mrgreen:

It is believed that the Miniature Pinscher evolved from the ancient German Pinscher family of dogs, which ultimately produced a number of the breeds recognized by the American Kennel Club (AKC) today. In 1836, Dr. H. G. Reinchenbach, a German writer, stated the Miniature Pinscher is a cross of the Dachshund and the Italian Greyhound. This conclusion of Dr. Reinchenbach is now generally accepted by historians and those who have researched the background of the breed. In any event, Germany is undisputed as the home of origin, where the Miniature Pinscher was known as the "Reh Pinscher" due to its resemblance to a small red deer, the Reh, which freely roamed the German forests many years ago.

This proud little dog is often referred to as "The King of Toys". The Miniature Pinscher is an assertive, outgoing, active and independent breed. Fearless animation, complete self-possession, and spirited presence describe the Miniature Pinscher to a T.

As noted in my original post, this breed is not related to the German Pinscher or derives from the German Pinscher family of dogs but in all likelihood the Dachshund as with the Schnauzers are descendants of the now extinct German Black and Tan terrier.
The Miniature Pinscher is attributed to todays German (Deutscherpincher) Pinscher as breed stock following WWII.