[Yogi]

As one who has bred and raised dogs for over 50 years I can attest that in acuality, most and when I say most this means 80 to 90% are not vicious killing dogs at all. You are attributing their ability to do more harm than some other breeds but this in no way indicates it is more likely to. A GSD, Rot, Cane Corso can and have done as much damage as any Pit Bull but in all you are failing to note that the Pit Bull was not bred to attack humans. This is strictly a result of poor socialization that is required in all breeds. To assume only Pits are biters on their own is redundant and shows a lack of dog knowledge in general.
To assume that your rooster had a chance in hell with an ankle biter only means it has not run into a terrier breed. In my case I breed true Miniature Pinschers, not the tiny Mini or Min Pins but that actual "terrier" version. I can assure you, mine would have no problems killing your rooster or your chickens if the opportunity was offered them. As for your assumption that a small dog does not cause near the problem that you seem to think all Pits do, you are grossly mistaken. A small breed is quite capable of killing an infant or child as any improperly socialized breed of dog.

Pomeranian Kills 6-Week-Old Girl
Carinoodle mauls infant - Puppy & Dog Forums

As for the majority of Pit Bulls, in all my years working with dogs including a great deal of Pits and Pit mixes I have never come across one aggressive toward humans. If anything they will beat you to death with their wagging tail if they don't first lick you to death.

Assumption is the mother of all f*****s, as the saying goes. You are assuming to much of the breed in general to be fact when the only fact is that their is no proof outside of the overly aggressive press reporting that insists on making people like you believe that all Pits are terrors when the actual fact is they are not.
Truth be told, most people could not identify a Pit Bull if it stood in front of them. Those that are attacked in more cases than not have only noted a description of the dog that actually fits several breeds so the assumption is it must have been a Pit Bull. Of the ones where the dog was actually caught, more were mix breeds that actually Pit Bulls. In all cases, this came down to poor ownership which owners of any breed can be found guilty of. If you want to make a change, propose that only licensed individuals may own Pit Bulls, but note that it would have to pertain to other breeds listed as having issues where they have not been properly socialized. Again, that could include all breeds.
I would offer you a test but am based on your remarks somewhat sure that you would incorrectly id another breed and keep trying til you got it only to claim you got it on the first try.

To note, this is the Dog "Lovers" forum. Not Dog (sometime love breeds) forum.

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by cgmccary

You're comparing small "ankle biting" dogs to Pit Bulls? LOL! An "ankle biter" is a minor incident to both child & adult. I have not heard of an ankle biter putting a child in a hospital and have known many who owned them. Just about every child I know has met an "ankle biter" at one time or another-- & not one even incurred a medical bill. An ankle biting little dog is not a life and death situation.

However, we have had 3-4 Pit Bull attacks here (in a town of 25,000) that sent grown adults to the hospital (two to ICU) the last couple of years. Several people have lost or had their small dogs or cats severely injured to & by Pit Bulls on my street. I have seen a number of other dogs hurt very badly. One Basset Hound I saw in the waiting room of my Eye Vet, had had two surgeries on its eyes from a Pit Bull attack. I've had three Pit Bull attacks (and btw, not the same Pit Bull) on my property. The first one broke gelded steel wire and killed 3 of my prize hens (I wasn't at home but my elderly neighbor tried unsuccessfully to stop the attack). I warned the Pit Bull owners around me to keep their dogs off my property. The second Pit Bull attacked at approximately midnight, and I awoke in time to prevent a mass slaughter of my rare chickens & the Pit Bull met his Maker. The third incident, the Pit Bull was leaping to jump over my fence, got its legs over the top; again, very late at night, woke from sleep; I put rat shot in its behind. Since then, I've seen less Pit Bulls running loose. Nothing like a good Vet bill to send a message.

Also, the ankle biting/small dogs are not a threat to my chickens. I have a 9 lb Rooster that will not let cats or small dogs anywhere near the hens (runs them). Ankle biters are also no threat to other small dogs nor cats.

You can suggest I move all you want, but why should I move? I have a gun. The Pit Bull owners have been warned. It is real simple, even for an ignorant person like me. If you own a Pit Bull, do not let it run loose, for it may pose a danger to people and other small animals. With well over 200 breeds of dogs, it is still astonishing to me that the Pit Bull is the choice of a large majority of people around here.



Not bitching here. Someone called Pit Bulls "great dogs." I disagree. I also disagree about whether there is something I can do about it (RE: gun).

I was being facetious with the German Shepherd comment; it is not even conceivable that a German Shepherd or any other breed of dog would comprise such a majority. I was also exaggerating the 90% Pit Bulls, probably more like 75% would be more accurate. This would also explain why they haven't been banned here. It just seems like 90% when they are the ones running loose causing damage. There have been more strict laws enacted here, and they are enforced. Also, if a Pit Bull shows up in your yard & you call the Police (here), if you just tell them it acted in a threatening manner toward you, they will shoot it on the spot.



Year before last, a large Red Pit Bull got tangled around our garden, dragging his chain (the tomato spikes), really tore up our garden. I knew this particular Pit wasn't aggressive toward people as I'd seen him around, so I went out, untangled him & took him home. I went up to the Pit Bull Owner's door, knocked and told her that, here was her dog, loose, tore up my garden (large tomato plants wiped out)-- she grabbed the dog and with her fist, hit him in the face as hard as she could; I told her she didn't "have to hit him, just keep him up, . . . he's your dog, he's a Pit Bull, your responsibility to keep him up . . . he didn't get loose that much . . ." She responded by calling me "ignorant."

Another time a Pit Bull dragging a concrete block starts running at me in my back yard from the alley; I was able to out run him 'cause he was dragging the block. I went to the Owner's (not the same as above) house and told him his dog was in my yard dragging a concrete block by a chain. I asked him "why?" He responded curtly, "I'm exercising him." Then I said "IMHO, that was no way to exercise his dog." I suggested walking or running the dog on a leash or maybe, get a treadmill. He called me "ignorant."

It goes back to that redneck or thug thing I alluded to in my original post (i.e. referring to someone as"ignorant" must be the favored response to a person with a differing opinion and reasons for the opinion).

You referring to me as ignorant, Sandyh, the same as your "ankle biters" analogy (a poor one with no relevance btw) hit a resonant chord with me & tells me all I needed to know about you.

First off i apologize, I should never have called you ignorant, I was tired the other night and cranky and should not have responded to the post. It just makes me so mad when people condemn all pitbulls because of some bad ones. Even though I am a pitbull owner I would be scared to be living by so many untrained or trained wrong dogs of any type, especially the ones that are stereo typed.

You're comparing small "ankle biting" dogs to Pit Bulls? LOL! An "ankle biter" is a minor incident to both child & adult. I have not heard of an ankle biter putting a child in a hospital and have known many who owned them. Just about every child I know has met an "ankle biter" at one time or another-- & not one even incurred a medical bill. An ankle biting little dog is not a life and death situation.


However, I do disagree with this statement. I had a small beagle who i had to leave with neighbors for three weeks while i moved from one state to the next. For three weeks straight i found out the neighbor boys teased this dog mercilessly everyday while i was gone. The family seemed like a nice family while i lived next to them or i would never had asked them to take care of him. I was called by another neighbor who informed me that they were really mean to him and i really needed to come pick him up as soon as possible. I drove back the very next day to get him to find his chain was all tightly tangled, he was living in dust, no food or water.
I took him home and it was about two weeks after getting him back.when my 3 year old daughter was sitting on the kitchen chair playing with her doll when my little beagle who was sitting next to her on the floor, jumped up and bit her in the face for no reason.She hadnt done anything to antise him as i was sitting right by her. I had to take her to the emergency room to have 8 stitches put in the top of her eye and another 5 underneath her eye. So ya they can do bodily harm to a small child. i have the hospital and the vet bills to prove it.
any dogs running loose cause problems. I watched two dogs that were sitting in their yard chase two kids out into traffic(I know the dogs only were going to go play with them because i know the dogs)but the kids that were walking only saw two dogs running at them. a truck almost ran into one of the boys. I went and said something to the owner about it they just shrugged their shoulders brought the dogs inside and closed the door. It all comes down to how the animal is raised and the owners keeping them behind fences or staying out with them. Once again i say it is the owners fault not the animals.
if you own a Pit Bull, do not let it run loose, for it may pose a danger to people and other small animals
however this should read if you own a dog of any type whether big or small , do not let it run loose, for it may pose a danger to people and other small animals.

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by Sandyh

With that many pit bulls in your area, I'm surprised they haven't been banned already. These dogs in the hands of stupid people are like a toddler with a loaded gun - a disaster waiting to happen. I live in an area where these dogs have been banned since 2005. The problem with banning an entire breed is that the good dogs suffer right along with the ones that people have turned bad.

this wasnt my post i was replying to this post.

Yogi:To assume that your rooster had a chance in hell with an ankle biter only means it has not run into a terrier breed. In my case I breed true Miniature Pinschers, not the tiny Mini or Min Pins but that actual "terrier" version. I can assure you, mine would have no problems killing your rooster or your chickens if the opportunity was offered them.

I had two Minpins; both lived to ripe old ages. One was an excellent ratter & did it instinctively (genetically bred to kill a rat). Neither Minpin showed any interest in my chickens whatsoever. I would not have let my big Rooster anywhere around my Minpins (my male Minpin was only 10 inches high at the shoulder) -- the Rooster would have done harm to him or any small dog. I am not stupid. I've been bit by a small dog and also, attacked by a big rooster, & the latter is much worse. I have never been to the doctor for a small ankle biter (my Mom's Yorkshire TERRIERS), but I have been to the doctor for a rooster hit. I keep my chickens up, & I don't let children around the big roosters.

I keep my dogs up; in more than 16 years, my Minpin NEVER got loose & ran free. In fact, my Minpin never went outside without me (or a dogsitter if I was out of town) & NEVER ran loose in more than 16 years. He NEVER bit a person nor harmed any animal except mice or rats (and one squirrel he caught one time). My Vet said he had the best temperament of any Minpin he'd ever seen. But IF my Minpin had been a "biter," there was only so much harm he could have done. And one hard kick would have hurt him badly or sent him flying.

I have a blind 1/2 Bloodhound who not only wouldn't bite a person or another animal, she has NEVER barked, and she is going on 5 years old (a confidence issue). I raised her to not be food aggressive. My other small dog and my cat can take her food and she will cooperate. She never goes outside alone as she is blind. The Bloodhound in her makes her genetically pre-disposed to trail. Bloodhound are notorious for running off on a trail and becoming lost-- they should never be able to get free for THAT REASON.

Genetic predisposition strongly influences a dog's behavior. A Pit Bull was bred (genetically) to fight other dogs. I agree ANY dog, of course, is capable of biting a person. Herding dogs are pre-disposed to herding and can be known to nip (this is actually common with some of those breeds).

My point is that the MAJORITY of Pit Bull owners (NOT ALL and obviously not Sandyh) are not equipped mentally, psychologically, intellectually or emotionally to own a Pit Bull. They do not need a dog that is genetically bred to attack, fight & kill other dogs. The dogs are much more powerful than a Minpin or my Maltease & the consequences of a Pit Bull getting loose (as any large, dangerous dog) is no comparison to most other breeds of dogs accidently getting out.

Likewise, there are other dogs that the average citizen has no business keeping (I'd add a Bloodhound for the aforementioned reasons-- too much dog with too strong a trait). A Maltease, on the other hand, would be an easy dog apart from the brushing-- easy to train, if they get loose (which mine won't leave the yard), they won't do any damage-- you'd have to worry about them getting hurt, good with all children-- mine has been a therapy dog for the elderly.

Only an experienced dog handler/ owner with good temperament themselves should own a Pit Bull. In other words, the breed should be one of the rarer ones seen. When you come on here and say well they are great dogs as if everyone should own one (and the more the merrier), you are wrong. A breed of dog genetically bred for the purpose of fighting other dogs should be a rare breed. (but in reality, the opposite is true: they are the most common breed around me & I have noticed that generally, it is the thugs & rednecks who have them-- the ones that shouldn't!).

But hey, if Michael Vicks dogs can ALL be rehabilitated, then I will agree, in the hands of very experienced dog handlers, a Pit Bull is fine. I realize this is a dog lovers forum and I love all dogs; however, all dogs are not equal. The Pit Bull is not a breed that should be strongly encouraged & promoted as if it is just like any other breed. Pick another one of the 200+ breeds-- yeah, get one genetically bred to be a lap dog or companion dog-- you all know what I'm talking about. Most people don't use dogs for working but if you get a working dog or one bred for a purpose, then consider how that purpose fits in with your scheme. One bred to fight another dog is NOT going to fit in most schemes or with most people. That's all.

[Tug'N'PullKennels]

Originally Posted by sandyh

Nobody wants to live next to any type of dog who is bred to fight or maim or kill. But if your state is 90% of a breed you don't like then I suggest that you move somewhere else because apparently bitching on these forums isnt making it go away because we cant do a damb thing about it. not all areas and not all pitbull owners are bad, that would be like me saying i live by 90 % ankle biters and because they are always biting or nipping peoples ankles to an adult would be minor because they cant reach our face to easy but what damage can they do to a small unsuspecting child. Then we should get rid of all small animals.

Now to most of you posters on here that have small dogs please dont take offense. This was said to just make a statement to the ignorant person that wrote this post.

okay starting from the top- in the first part that is highlighted, you said 90% of the dogs are pit bulls. then you state it is the thugs and rednecks that own them, then you say how they are left outside chained up in the back yard all the time(where is the socialization of these dogs)and then you said further down that if it was a different breed of dog you would feel that way about that breed. geez ya think, get a clue!!!

I am a owner of 3 pit bulls. i have 2 and my daughter owns 1. I am not a man with an ego or looking to show expressions of my manhood. I am also not a thug or a redneck. i am a woman who loves the way this breed of dog looks and behaves.

A dog is only as good as its owner makes it. If you train a dog to fight it going to fight, if you train it to be gently, it will be gentle.

Ditto and AMEN@!!

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by cgmccary

I had two Minpins; both lived to ripe old ages. One was an excellent ratter & did it instinctively (genetically bred to kill a rat). Neither Minpin showed any interest in my chickens whatsoever. I would not have let my big Rooster anywhere around my Minpins (my male Minpin was only 10 inches high at the shoulder) -- the Rooster would have done harm to him or any small dog. I am not stupid. I've been bit by a small dog and also, attacked by a big rooster, & the latter is much worse. I have never been to the doctor for a small ankle biter (my Mom's Yorkshire TERRIERS), but I have been to the doctor for a rooster hit. I keep my chickens up, & I don't let children around the big roosters.

I keep my dogs up; in more than 16 years, my Minpin NEVER got loose & ran free. In fact, my Minpin never went outside without me (or a dogsitter if I was out of town) & NEVER ran loose in more than 16 years. He NEVER bit a person nor harmed any animal except mice or rats (and one squirrel he caught one time). My Vet said he had the best temperament of any Minpin he'd ever seen. But IF my Minpin had been a "biter," there was only so much harm he could have done. And one hard kick would have hurt him badly or sent him flying.

I have a blind 1/2 Bloodhound who not only wouldn't bite a person or another animal, she has NEVER barked, and she is going on 5 years old (a confidence issue). I raised her to not be food aggressive. My other small dog and my cat can take her food and she will cooperate. She never goes outside alone as she is blind. The Bloodhound in her makes her genetically pre-disposed to trail. Bloodhound are notorious for running off on a trail and becoming lost-- they should never be able to get free for THAT REASON.

Genetic predisposition strongly influences a dog's behavior. A Pit Bull was bred (genetically) to fight other dogs. I agree ANY dog, of course, is capable of biting a person. Herding dogs are pre-disposed to herding and can be known to nip (this is actually common with some of those breeds).

My point is that the MAJORITY of Pit Bull owners (NOT ALL and obviously not Sandyh) are not equipped mentally, psychologically, intellectually or emotionally to own a Pit Bull. They do not need a dog that is genetically bred to attack, fight & kill other dogs. The dogs are much more powerful than a Minpin or my Maltease & the consequences of a Pit Bull getting loose (as any large, dangerous dog) is no comparison to most other breeds of dogs accidently getting out.

Likewise, there are other dogs that the average citizen has no business keeping (I'd add a Bloodhound for the aforementioned reasons-- too much dog with too strong a trait). A Maltease, on the other hand, would be an easy dog apart from the brushing-- easy to train, if they get loose (which mine won't leave the yard), they won't do any damage-- you'd have to worry about them getting hurt, good with all children-- mine has been a therapy dog for the elderly.

Only an experienced dog handler/ owner with good temperament themselves should own a Pit Bull. In other words, the breed should be one of the rarer ones seen. When you come on here and say well they are great dogs as if everyone should own one (and the more the merrier), you are wrong. A breed of dog genetically bred for the purpose of fighting other dogs should be a rare breed. (but in reality, the opposite is true: they are the most common breed around me & I have noticed that generally, it is the thugs & rednecks who have them-- the ones that shouldn't!).

But hey, if Michael Vicks dogs can ALL be rehabilitated, then I will agree, in the hands of very experienced dog handlers, a Pit Bull is fine. I realize this is a dog lovers forum and I love all dogs; however, all dogs are not equal. The Pit Bull is not a breed that should be strongly encouraged & promoted as if it is just like any other breed. Pick another one of the 200+ breeds-- yeah, get one genetically bred to be a lap dog or companion dog-- you all know what I'm talking about. Most people don't use dogs for working but if you get a working dog or one bred for a purpose, then consider how that purpose fits in with your scheme. One bred to fight another dog is NOT going to fit in most schemes or with most people. That's all.

To note, a 10 inch MinPin is in now way a true version of the actual breed. You are like most, assuming they are little toy breeds when in fact the true version is actually larger than yours and simply put, do not attack ankles and would have no problems dispatching a rooster, this includes yours. Like most, you assume that what you had is indicative of the Miniature Pinscher, unfortunately this only shows you really know nothing of the breed but what you have read based on the typical writings of those in North America.
This is the real Miniature Pinscher......
As you will note, it is much more powerful than what you own or owned.
Do not underestimate the capabilities of this breed when bred to their true stature not the refined MinPin, but the true Zwergpinscher.

[fuzzycrow]

Great information. I was one of those people who was afraid of pit bulls because of all the bad publicity they have received. But a few years ago my sons both got pit bulls. And I fell in love with them. They are some of the most gentle, well behaved, and loyal dogs you could ever meet. Also, some of the smartest. I am a fan. Thanks.

[Lara's mom]

Personally, I'm fine with pit bulls. The ones I know are very friendly and gentle with people. However, they do tend to be very aggressive toward other animals. I wouldn't let either of my girls anywhere near a pit bull.