[Yogi]

I think what this may pertain to is PEI (Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency). This is where the pancreas does not produce enough digestive enzymes to allow for nutrition absorption. This is found in GSD's. Not sure of the results of the studies as it has been awhile but the basic cure was in the proper foods which I assume take less enzymes to break down the food and makes it easier to absorb the nutrition.

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

If this were true, then there would be many many unhealthy GSD's. No?

I have never had any food issues with any of my GSD's. I can switch foods at any time. They get canned/dry. I give them their raw veggies/fruits, bones and throw in chicken the odd day. I also give them tripe, which they love.

As long as they are eating healthy, they are getting the nutritrition they need. No different then with us humans.

I haven't the time to go into this subject thoroughly tonight but here is some info that will give you a start to what I mean:
Pancreatic Insufficiency

Q: We have a 7 month German Shepherd puppy who the Vet feels has a genetic pancreatic disorder. She has had diarrhea for 3 weeks and has lost 15 lbs. Worms, parasites and inflammation of the bowels have all been ruled out. We will start her on a special enzyme supplement powder, which the Vet says will help her system digest the food it can't and get the nurtrition she needs. Can anyone tell us more about this disorder? And what the prognosis could be? The breeder has told us that this problem has been in the blood line. Some have said that there may be little we can do to save her. My wife, daughter and I love Liesl very much. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks.

A: It is hard to be sure from your mail, but I am assuming that Liesl has pancreatic insufficiency - the inability to produce adequate digestive enzymes. It is possible to treat this by using Viokase or other products containing digestive enyzmes. . In most dogs, these will help enough that the dog can live a pretty normal life. If they are not successful alone, using cimetidine (Tagamet) to decrease stomach acids and allow the enzymes to work better is helpful. Some dogs can not be controlled through these measures and will die. In addition, some dogs are controlled well but suffer a twisting of the intestinal supporting structures for an unknown reason and die as a result of this. In one study, 10% of the dogs with pancreatic insufficiency studied had this problem. This is a serious problem but many dogs do live relatively normal lives with enzyme supplementation. I hope Liesl is one of these.

Mike Richards, DVM

Chronic Diarrhea in German Shepherd

Q: Dear Dr. Mike, My 2 1/2 year old German Shepherd, Simba, has had diarrhea for the last five weeks. He has lost twenty-two pounds (from ninety pounds). Initially, I didn't notice that he was eating outdated dog food from a pet store. It was manufactured in September 1995. In the last two weeks he has been eating new food, but the diarrhea has persisted. I took him to the vet, he tested his stool sample for parasites and pancreatitis. The vet said that pancreatitis was a possibility, but there were no parasites. I've done some research and don't believe that it is pancreatitis because his lower abdomen is not painful to palpations, has not had a loss of appetite and does not vomit. He was neutered and vaccinated just prior to the diarrhea. Could this have affected the situation being that his system was malnourished from the old dog food and then had to combat the antibodies from the vaccines? He also spent four days in a kennel a few days after the vaccinations at this point is when I noticed the diarrhea. Is it possible that there could be parasites that were not detected and can pancreatitis be determined by just taking a stool sample? These are the things that I have tried: fasting him, giving pepto-bismol and white rice. There was a slight improvement after the rice, but after eating regular food again, he resumed the diarrhea. Right now, I have fasted him and gave him charcoal tablets. I broke the fast slowly with vegetable broth, then cooked vegetables and now rice and oats. I don't have any more ideas, so any input would be greatly appreciated on my Simba's behalf. Thank-you in advance, Judy

A: Judy- In any German shepherd with chronic diarrhea my first instinct is to look for pancreatic insufficiency. In this case, insufficient digestive enzymes are being produced to allow proper digestion. This leads to persistent diarrhea. Pancreatic insufficiency is reasonably common in shepherds. There are pretty accurate tests for this condition now. Blood tests for trypsin like immunoreactivity (TLI) and serum folate levels are an improvement over older tests utilizing digestion of X-ray film. It is important not to overlook other possible causes, though. These tests are simple enough to include in the initial workup of a case, along with the more obvious things you mention, such as ruling out intestinal parasites, a general blood panel to make sure that there is not an obvious organ system problem (liver, kidney) and an attempt to make sure bacterial enteritis is not a problem.

Pancreatic insufficiency is NOT pancreatitis. It is an entirely different problem. Your vet may have been referring to this but phrased the concern badly or may be thinking that pancreatitis is possible. I would tend to agree that it isn't too likely as a continuing cause of diarrhea, though.

If no problem can be found with the labwork above, then the possibility of malabsorption disorders like lymphangectasia becomes more likely. Diagnosis of these conditions is best done by biopsy, usually utilizing an endoscope. We refer patients to an internal medicine specialist for this procedure.

The food can't be ruled out as a source of the initial problems but something else is probably keeping the problem going. Lots of times stressful situations bring on the clinical signs of problems such as pancreatic insufficiency and lymphangectasia or plasmacytic/lymphocytic enteritis -- and then these problems just keep on going.

Mike Richards, DVM
Here is the link to the page this was on--It is at very bottom of page:

Pancreatic Insufficiency

I will be back tomorrow with my comments!

[GSDS4Life]

Ok thanks for that.

I know all about PEI. I have a couple of links saved on this suject.It actually effects dogs and cats. And humans. But dogs more. And yes the GSD also the Rough Collie. But it also has nothing to do with the food that the dog eats. It is a disease which is most likely inherited.

And since I can't post links yet, I will have to wait. LOL

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

Ok thanks for that.

I know all about PEI. I have a couple of links saved on this suject.It actually effects dogs and cats. And humans. But dogs more. And yes the GSD also the Rough Collie. But it also has nothing to do with the food that the dog eats. It is a disease which is most likely inherited.

And since I can't post links yet, I will have to wait. LOL

Was not going to do this tonight and I prob. shouldn't as I am not up to it but now want to be done with the subject. Did you read Yogi's post above ----Pretty much says what I was referring to about a special diet for the German Shepherd in order to get proper nutrition because they do not absorb nutrients well. And the info I gave you does mention about this too if you look deep enough. And also the link I gave you in that first post above pretty much says it too. ----The immune system is compromised and will show it later when it breaks down and all kinds of things happen to German Shepherds (in general). They have more health problems than any other breed. If you can't see the connection that special nutrition requirements can have in preventing a lot of their problems--not much more I can say!

[Todd]

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

If this were true, then there would be many many unhealthy GSD's. No?

I have never had any food issues with any of my GSD's. I can switch foods at any time. They get canned/dry. I give them their raw veggies/fruits, bones and throw in chicken the odd day. I also give them tripe, which they love.

As long as they are eating healthy, they are getting the nutritrition they need. No different then with us humans.

I feed tripe once per week as well. Where do you get your tripe? Is it unbleached? If not, it's virtually nutritionless and that's what they sell in the grocery stores.

[CorkyMax]

This all is from a book I have: Earl Mindell's Nutrition & Health for Dogs--Earl Mindell, R. Ph., PH. D.---This 'guy' is/was (This book was published 12 yrs. ago) well-known and I have many books by him on vitamins, etc to do with humans too. He knows his 'stuff!' (Check him out on the web) He has a chapter on breeds and their health problems. The German Shepherd has the most problems--3 pages long compared with 1-1 and a half pages for most of the other breeds listed! I am going to list the problems but can't go into all the details on each problem--Too much work! I will add some of the more important details though on some of these problems. And yes-some of these are genetic---BUT can't you see if this breed, noted for not being able to get the proper nutrition from their food--compromises the immune system! The immune system is what keeps a dog healthy. Just because some things are considered genetic doesn't mean that a healthy immune system might be able to ward off or lessen the problem! If something is lacking in this breed from the very beginning--Why can't it be caused by not getting whatever nutrient that would prevent some of these things from happening in the first place!! You know the saying--You are what you eat!! I wish I could explain this better---HELP YOGI!


From my book:

1.--Allergies--prone to all types.
2.--Antibody (Type IgA--A deficiency of the production of type IgA antibody, causing a weakened immune system.
3.--Behavioral Abnormalities (my comment--Food feeds the brain--lack of nutrients can affect the nervous system/mental functions)
4.--Blood-Clotting Disorders--prone, due to coagulation factor VIII or IX deficiency.
5.--Calcinosis--Hard lumps of calcium salt deposits in the skin.
6.--Cancer--prone to hemangiosarcoma (cancer of the blood vessels involving the liver, spleen, or skin and bone cancer).
7.--Cataract--In ELDERLY dogs the lens of the eye becomes cloudy, causing a partial or total loss of vision. (me here--Who is to say that certain vitamins,etc couldn't possibly prevent this or lessen the chances!?--hereditary or not! The word ELDERLY may mean the immune system is 'pretty well' compromised by this time and open for a lot of things. Have to keep the immune system as healthy as possible---It has to be 'fed.')
8.--Cleft Palate and/or Lip--Both are birth defects. (me-I am thinking maybe if the mother dog was getting all the proper nutrients to 'grow' a healthy baby in the womb--this might help this from happening!)
9.--Corneal Dystrophy
10.--Cutaneous Vasculopathy--A puppy disease characterized by swollen footpads that lose their color and leisons and crusting of the ear(s) and tail.
(me-How do you know that something isn't lacking in the diet that could prevent this?)
11.--Degenerative Myelopathy
12.--Dermoid Cyst--A skinlike growth, usually seen on the back.
13.--Ehler's-Danlos Syndrome--A connective tissue disease in which the skin is very fragile and is easily cut or bruised. (me-something lacking in diet that may prevent this or could something extra be added to stop the skin from being so fragile? You never know for sure--Something to be discovered yet!?)
14.--Elbow Dysplasia--An abnormal development of the elbow joint(s). (me-same principle as #13 above apply here too?)

Two more pages to go--going to take a break here and feed my dogs and get the garbage out before the garbage truck comes! Be back!

[CorkyMax]

15.--Eosinophilic Ppanosteitis--An inflammatory bone disease found in fast-growing puppies, which is accompanied by increased eosinophils, a type of white blood cells.
16.--Epilepsy--(me-Some is food related, yes!?)
17.--Esophageal Disorder--Spasms of the muscles of the esophagus.
18.--Eye Abnormalities--Prone to abnormal development of the eye(s), a rolling in of the eyelid(s), protruding third eyelid(s), and a disorder in which the lens of the eye(s) slips out of place.
19.--Gastric Bloat and Torsion
20.--Glycogen Storage Disease--An inability to store and use the complex carbohydrate glycogen, which is primarily stored in the liver and muscle. (me-sounds like a digestion problem?)
21.--Heart Disease--Prone to CARDIOMYOPATHY, OR WEAKENED HEART MUSCLES, and a malfunctioning valve(s). (me-Would not supplementing with the amino acid-TAURINE (as mentioned elsewhere--Some breeds are not making enough of their own taurine and this can lead to this problem!! (me-I would say this is nutrition related!)
22.--Hereditary Kidney Hypoplasia--Born with immature kidneys that never develop completely. (me-Was there something the mother did not get enough of because of poor assimilation of the proper nutrients that might of prevented this? You don't know!)
23.--Hip Dysplasia
24.--Incontinence
25.--Keratitis--Inflammation of the cornea.
26.--Keratoacanthoma--Noncancerous skin tumor, usually found on the face.
27.--Lymphedema--An accumulation of fluid in the tissues due to a disorder of the lymphatic system.
28.--[B]MALABSORPTION--A CONDITION IN WHICH THE SMALL INTESTINE DOES NOT ABSORB NUTRIENTS PROPERLY!!!!
[/B(Should not a person be trying to 'fix' this by giving the special diet a German Shepherd needs to help the nutrients get absorbed?!!!)
29.--Myasthenia Gravis--An autoimmune disease characterized by progressive muscle fatigue and generalized weakness as a result of impaired transmission of nerve impulses.
30.--Osteochondritis Dissecans--Inflammation of the cartilage in the joints. A form of arthritis.
31.--Osteochondrosis--An abnormal development of joint cartilage. Most commonly found in the shoulder, knee, and elbow.
32.--PANCREATIC INSUFFICIENCY--A DIGESTIVE ENZYME DEFICIENCY.
33.--Pannus--A progressive immune-mediated disease in which there is a growth of tissue over the cornea, causing inflammation and possible blindness.
34.--Progressive Retinal Atropathy (PRA)--A slow deterioration of the retina, leading to blindness.
35.--Silica Uroliths--Bladder stones formed primarily from silicone. (Me-Note that if a dog eats a lot of grass-he is also getting a lot of silicone! But as this is one of the reasons a dog eats grass, maybe he needs some silicone--Just not too much!)
36.--Skin Disease--Prone to deep infections in the skin (boils), autoimmune diseases of the skin, infections of the nose and ear(s), and seborrhea, which is characterized by scaly, crusty, greasy skin. (me-Sounds like a compromised immune system--fueled by not absorbing proper nutrients?)
37.--Systemic Lupus Erythematosus--An autoimmune disease characterized by skin infections, organ disorders, and blood abnormalities. (me-compromised immune system?)
38.--Thyroid Disease--Prone to thyroiditis, lymphocytic thyroiditis, and hypothyroidism. Thyroiditis and lymphocytic thyroiditis are autoimmune diseases that lead to hypothyroidism, a common disease of thyroid hormone deficiency. The thyroid regulated your dog's metabolism. A large number of skin problems in dogs are caused by thyroid disease.
39.--Ulcerative Colitis--A chronic inflammation of the colon that results in the formation of ulcers in the colon.
40.--Von Willebrand's Disease--Abnormal blood-clotting defect involving both platelet and coagulation function (factor VIII).
41.--ZINC-RESPONSIVE DERMATOSIS--SKIN DISEASE CAUSED BY A ZINC DEFICIENCY.(Me-malabsorption of the nutrient-zinc!)

This breed needs help in absorbing the nutrients needed to keep the immune system in top shape!!!

[GSDS4Life]

And many of the things listed are in many other breeds also.


I am not trying to start a debate. I know my breed. I know the ins and outs of it. All breeds have health/genetic issues. Hence why ethical breeders do health/genetic testing before breeding. I have owned GSD's for 28 years. And in 28 years the only health issue I have had was arthritis. That happens in every breed.

Health issues can arise even in the best fed dog. No different then a human.

So I will be done with this topic.

Originally Posted by Todd

I feed tripe once per week as well. Where do you get your tripe? Is it unbleached? If not, it's virtually nutritionless and that's what they sell in the grocery stores.

I'm lucky, I get it fresh. My husbands Brother and sister in-law own a farm.

[icareaboutmydogdoyou]

i have heard a lot of bad thing about this food and would suggest any food except that cheap food or iams and also if your dog has allergies try lamb and rice food as they are less common in most kinds of food (What your dog is probably allergic to) beef or corn most likely but if that doesnt work try home recipes as they are usually the healthiest because you can see what you are putting in the food.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by icareaboutmydogdoyou

i have heard a lot of bad thing about this food and would suggest any food except that cheap food or iams and also if your dog has allergies try lamb and rice food as they are less common in most kinds of food (What your dog is probably allergic to) beef or corn most likely but if that doesnt work try home recipes as they are usually the healthiest because you can see what you are putting in the food.

Are you referring to Blue Buffalo? I haven't really heard may bad things about it. Could you share what you have found or heard bad about it?

[k.elizabeth]

yes!!! i have 2 german shepherds! they are extremely picky eaters!! I bought the dry Blue food and my dogs liked it at first, then lost some interest, but i combined it with the canned dog food and my dogs cant get enough!! I've tried many other brands and this one seems to stick =) hope it works for you!

[dljc]

I recently heard of 3 dogs that started having seizures. The Vets conferred and realized they all were eating Blue Buffalo. Vets said to change food. No further problems reported with the dogs.
Rosemary oil is in the middle of the ingredient list on the Blue bag and that is known to be a seizure trigger for some dogs.
Some breeds are more genetically prone to seizures and they should stay away from this food. However, the dogs a-fore-mentioned were mixed breeds
Diane.