[JeannieSouza]

This was interesting...

First I am about as far east as I can get in Virginia.. I live on the Eastern Shore.. the Delmarva peninsula .. so foxtail weed might not be an issue here.. but that's why I came to this site.. hoping that my little Mia has gotten into something that has a quick fix... what's happening to her is not a common thing.. so maybe something like Foxtail weed caused it...

She woke me this morning at 3 a.m. with a faint little bark.. to go out..

My yard is an acre where the dogs roam.. it stays mowed.. it's surrounded by farmland.. right now they are growing wheat.. The dogs know their boundary and never cross the crop line.. yes.. they put chemicals down.. but they have not put anything down prior to Mia getting sick.. Also .. I have 2 other dogs.. with no illness..

I have pet chickens.. One of them had been sick for 2 days prior and died Easter morning. .. I don't know why.. I had 4 other hens and a Rooster at the time... none of them were sick... I have them in a fox/coon proof pen.. where their coop is kept.. also.. a tractor run that I move around daily.. I clean the coop everyday... I used to allow them to have the freedom of the yard.. but for the past 3 months that have been restricted to the pen or tractor run.. The rooster got mean.. so he's not making little chicks on a nearby farm.... and I now have 4 more hens... again... using the same setup..

I am sure that Mia's problems were in progress for 2 weeks prior to the hen dying.. when I think back of her wanting me to carry her up the stairs.. and the changing of her voice... thinking back.. the changing of the voice was the first sign...

Mia and Molly both poms have been seen dinning on the droppings of the chickens.. Yes.. I told the Vet.. he said there's nothing known that the chicken could have passed to Mia via chicken poooo..

I am posting everything I can think of that might trigger something with someone..

Again.. thanks to all of you that have been offering suggestions..

[CorkyMax]

I am in the process of searching many different avenues with the slight chance of finding something that is also a slight chance--subtle things, etc. I am going to be pasting here links to sites that you need to read thoroughly (and scroll all the way down even if it looks like the article is done or not there!) Some of these you may think are not a possibility--keep your mind open and look for subtle things. This is going to take me some time as I have to go back and copy things to put here--so keep checking this post----I may not get done with it all until very late tonight-pm/am. I have to go somewhere for part of today so there will be gaps in time. I will let you know when I am all done with this post.

YOUR QUOTE: My yard is an acre where the dogs roam.. it stays mowed.. it's surrounded by farmland.. right now they are growing wheat.. The dogs know their boundary and never cross the crop line.. yes.. they put chemicals down.. but they have not put anything down prior to Mia getting sick.. Also .. I have 2 other dogs.. with no illness..

I have pet chickens.. One of them had been sick for 2 days prior and died Easter morning. .. I don't know why.. I had 4 other hens and a Rooster at the time... none of them were sick... I have them in a fox/coon proof pen.. where their coop is kept.. also.. a tractor run that I move around daily.. I clean the coop everyday... I used to allow them to have the freedom of the yard.. but for the past 3 months that have been restricted to the pen or tractor run.. The rooster got mean.. so he's not making little chicks on a nearby farm.... and I now have 4 more hens... again... using the same setup..

I am sure that Mia's problems were in progress for 2 weeks prior to the hen dying.. when I think back of her wanting me to carry her up the stairs.. and the changing of her voice... thinking back.. the changing of the voice was the first sign...

Mia and Molly both poms have been seen dinning on the droppings of the chickens.. Yes.. I told the Vet.. he said there's nothing known that the chicken could have passed to Mia via chicken poooo..

I am posting everything I can think of that might trigger something with someone..

Again.. thanks to all of you that have been offering suggestions (END OF QUOTE)
ChlamydialI LOVE DOGS! infections of dogs - caninesI LOVE DOGS! - clinical - epidemiology This appears to be a slight possibility that your dog COULD catch this from a chicken!
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044 --A lot to go through here but just find these 3 illnesses: 1.--Chlamydiosis---2.--Equine Encephalitis---3.--Botulism-> (Your dog could of eaten/drank same thing as your sick chicken and the other dog and other chickens may not have!

Another thing I want to say in general--Just because your other dog did not get sick from something does not mean that your sick
pom could of not gotten sick from it! I am thinking for one thing here--and this really bothered me and I keep thinking about it--You said the wheat fields get sprayed, etc but you don't think it could be that but I know that the stuff that is sprayed will still possibly be potent long after the spraying--some things I am thinking may be a year or several yrs.--and if the pom got into a specific area where it was esp. potent and ate some of the grass/wheat that had it on!!? Maybe your other dog is not partial to it and did not eat it. Even though the field is fenced off doesn't mean a spray couldn't get in your yard from there, esp. if windy out. I would ask the farmer for the name of the 'stuff' he puts on his field--get the correct spelling and check on the 'net' about it and in particular to poisoning dogs/animals--symptoms. Try name (s) of the spray/dogs in your browser or try name of the spray/poisonous to dogs--You get the idea.
Could be the same thing that only one dog got sick from the chicken --may not of eaten the same sick chicken's poo or ate something the sick chicken touched or ate off of. As far as you thinking that your pom was getting sick before the chicken did---Maybe the chicken was contagious before it started showing the physical signs.

THIS IS FROM ANOTHER SITE: (The black print below)
I do not know if this strain is contagious to dogs although in that 1st link I gave you I think there might be a possibility according to that article. Anyway it might be of interest about your sick/dead chicken--as noted below--your chicken could of been sick in the beginning and you wouldn't know and also your other chickens may of been able to fight it off---maybe this sick chicken was not as healthy for some reason too. Take note of what all is in that last paragraph!

Chlamydia infections can cause varied problems and/or clinical changes depending on the strain and quantity of organism to which a bird is exposed and the species, age and condition of the bird.

The fact that many healthy birds have antibodies against this organism suggests that most birds exposed to chlamydia mount an appropriate immune response that prevents the organism from causing progressive disease. Some infected birds will die shortly after clinical changes are first noted, while others can develop a mild disease and shed the organism for an extended period.

Chlamydiosis causes symptoms that are similar to those associated with many bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Mycobacteriosis, aspergillosis and mycoplasmosis cause particularly similar clinical changes. Toxins that affect the liver or digestive tract can also cause clinical signs similar to chlamydiosis. Chlamydiosis should be considered in any bird with clinical signs that suggest damage to the respiratory or digestive tracts. These include difficult breathing, depression, weight loss, loss of appetite, diarrhea, nasal discharge, swelling of the tissues around the eyes or discharge from the eyes. Yellowish or greenish discoloration of the urates and urine is a common symptom. This discoloration is not specific to Chlamydia, however, since it can be seen anytime cells in the liver are damaged.

Chlamydia is most frequently transmitted through direct contact with feces, or ocular or nasal secretions from an actively infected bird. This organism can remain infectious in dried feces for several months, and contaminated enclosures, toys, perches and food bowels can serve as a source for indirect exposure to the organism. The most severe outbreaks of disease typically occur in crowded conditions where numerous birds congregate. It has been suggested that chlamydia may be shed in the feces for several days to a week before a bird develops obvious signs of disease. The reported incubation period ranges from 5 to 42 days.

[CorkyMax]

Valley Fever
Valley Fever is a fungal disease found mostly in the dry areas of the Southwestern U.S., and northern Mexico. Dogs are most commonly affected, although many warm-blooded animals can contact it. It is not spread from one animal to another; it is not highly contagious; and can not spread from animal to man. Most dogs develop an immunity to it and never show outward signs of illness unless stressed with a lowered immune system.

Infection occurs by the dog inhaling spores from the soil. If infection happens, the inhaled spores burst in the lungs and start growing, usually in the lymph nodes. If the immune system does not kill the fungal organism here, they spread to many parts of the body, involving bone and eye tissue. Hunting dogs are particularly at risk of being exposed to the fungal spores, but even indoor dogs have a chance of exposure following a dust storm when billions of spores become airborne. A few years ago after a severe earthquake in the Los Angeles area disturbed dust, sand, and old buildings, several dogs were reported as having contacted the disease. However, the months of greatest exposure to the spores are May through August, when the fungi stop growing and produce spores to survive the dry, hot summer.

Most diagnosis of Valley Fever is based on a history of travel in prevalent areas, clinical signs, and laboratory testing. Clinical signs include a chronic, dry, persistent cough, breathing problems, depression, fever, decreased appetite, lethargy, weight loss, and in some cases, blindness. The lymph nodes may be swollen and enlarged along with extreme pain and lameness as the disease involves the bones or spinal column, and enlarged joints. Since it takes several months for these signs to become apparent, diagnosis is often delayed until the disease has progressed to the point where the dog is very ill. A blood test can confirm Valley Fever and treatment started, with the drug of choice being Ketoconazole, given twice a day. This medication is usually tolerated if given with food. Continuous use is necessary for at least six months before major results can be seen. Most dogs do respond to treatment and go on to live a healthy life, if the owner can handle the expensive medications and treatments.


A few questions---Is your dog in any pain that you can tell? Prob. hard to tell if she can hardly 'talk/bark/make any noises.' Can you tell by looking at her eyes that she may be indicating pain at all? Can she walk at all/move limbs or is she paralyzed? Has anything/symptoms changed since even yesterday--better or worse? What does the poo look like--anything different about it since your dog got sick? color--smell--blood--consistency? Is she drinking enough water--eating enough food--anything different than before?
Is she still trembling (also can be a sign of pain)? Is her head still hanging/weak?
How long ago before your pom appeared sick did you shave her coat. A Dog should never be shaved--It is not only used for insulation from the cold but from the heat as well. This may not appear to be any cause of the problem but could contribute to a lowered immune system (just long enough for some disease to take hold) ---shock to the system/stress can affect the immune system. I am not going to go into all the details on shaving a dog being bad.
And the coat is prob. not going to grow back right either---I have read this and actually know it from experience---Which I wasn't aware of when my cocker was totally shaved--A groomer said it needed to be shaved but a groomer should never tell you this as they should know better---It was the groomer's way of taking the easy road to not having to put more time into getting out a few knots! One and only time I went to a groomer! Would take too long to tell you of my experience and I let the groomer do it because I figured at the time she knew best as I was no groomer! Ask any groomer that is a member in here what they think of shaving a dog.
If she is on all those antibiotics--should be giving some plain yogurt or probiotics to put back the necessary 'good' bacteria that the antibiotics are depleting.

One more question--Has your pom ever been on the medicine--rimadyl/carprofen (for pain)?

Have one more avenue to check on---Be back with what I find if anything.

That avenue didn't get any 'decent' results--Was checking on poison chemicals/dogs but think would get better results if knew each particular kind of poison to look up. So I guess I am done as I have nothing more at the moment to check on! Will be sure to pass on anything if I get some new ideas at a later time. How is she doing?

[CorkyMax]

[B]Here is a copy of another post I did a while back. If your dog is on all those meds--You should prob. read this:
I have commented in this forum before about yogurt--but it was 'human' yogurt. I recently asked a question of the vet on another dog forum who answers members questions about giving this to the dog and here is the 'copied' reply;

[COLOR="Sienna"Non-pasteurized yogurt in people supplies probiotic bacteria that is helpful to support normal flora. There are also enzymes but the probiotics are even better. Dogs unfortunately utilize a different bacteria for their normal flora so human probiotics are different from dog probiotics which are different that rabbit probiotics and cat probiotics. Dog probioitics are readily available in not only stores but also online. Why supplement them? I don't know that I really push these either for 'normal' dogs but I do recommend them for dogs that are on antibiotics or have diarrhea. Thus I recommend and prescribe probioitcs more commonly than I do enzyme supplements. By supplying 'good' bacteria, it helps the dogs rejuvenate the normal flora. For dogs that might have diarrhea or be exposed to 'bad bacteria' or antibiotics, being on a probiotic can help them.
][/COLOR]
A person gets a lot of 'different' answers to almost everything!!?? So I am adding this and you have to decide if it is the right way to go!---referring to the human versus the dog type yogurt--Prob. best to just get the probiotic supplement and then you don't have to worry about it--But prob. more expensive!

[Todd]

Just thought of something! Could this potentially be the bird flu that your dog contracted from your chickens?

Here's some info on canines with the Bird Flu or H5N1;

While cats and dogs have been known to become infected with avian influenza, the exact mode of the infection is unclear. It is assumed that these animals become infected with the virus when they ate poultry or wild birds which were infected with the avian influenza. It is unknown if cats and dogs can then spread the virus to one another, but for now this type of transmission is considered to be unlikely.

Causes of Avian Influenza in Dogs and Cats
In areas of Asia, Africa, and Europe, cats that have been exposed to poultry flocks that were infected with avian influenza tested positive for the virus. It is assumed that the cats were killing and eating some of the infected poultry, though it is still in question whether all of the cats became infected in this way. Many of the cats that tested positive for the virus were already in declining health from poor diet and other types of respiratory viruses, and it is not known if underlying medical problems increases their chances of becoming infected with the virus.

Only in rare cases have dogs been known to become infected with avian influenza, and most of the studies of dogs which tested positive for avian influenza were performed in dogs which were infected with the virus for laboratory studies. So it is not known if dogs are really susceptible to this virus in nature. While there have been a handful of reports which indicate dogs may have become infected from the virus from eating birds which carried the virus, there is still much that remains unknown about how dogs may become infected with avian influenza.

(As of yet there have been no cases of this in the United States or North America for that matter. Where did you chickens come from? There is still a slight chance that bird flu has made its way into the United States though in some way, shape, or form)

Q: Is it possible for migrating birds to carry the virus to North America, or is exposure here more likely from people returning to North America from other parts of the world that had the virus? With the new strain of bird flu reaching places like Romania and Turkey, should I reconsider my plans to travel there next year? -- Bob Spaziano, Raleigh, North Carolina

A: Both are possible. It's definitely possible for migratory birds to carry H5N1 to North America. We at the Department of Interior and our sister agencies are trying to figure out how likely that is. We think that international travel was a major way that the SARS virus, which also originated in Asia, spread rapidly around the world, so I would say that both migratory birds and international traffic are ways that the virus could come to this country.

Here are symptoms of the bird flu;

Fever
Sore throat
Cough
Headache
Aching muscles (Could account for not being able to walk/move much)
Eye infections
Pneumonia, including viral pneumonia
Acute respiratory distress
Inflammation of the brain and heart.

I would make sure to ask the vet about this as soon as possible. let me know if this sounds like it could be a possibility. Please keep us updated. Good luck.

Todd

[CorkyMax]

Found this quote by another member while searching for other info: I am a groomer and i would only shave a double coated dog ONLY if necessary ( matted ). The hair will grow back if the dog's thyroid level is normal. I work next to a vet and I have asked him this when i first started grooming. We have had dogs (that are not meant to be shaved) grow their hair back a different color, texture, pattern, patchy, or not grow back at all. It may also grow back completely normal. But if a groomer shaved you pooch for NO reason then I would complain. Shaving a double coated pooch is the LAST resort!! there is always brushing, dematting and blowing out all the under coat you can. But if it is inhumane to do this then shaving your baby is the only humane answer. If you want to know if you pooch's hair will grow back, check his thyroids... ... Sorry for rambling.. but hope it helped

Don't want to 'harp' on the subject but thought there was some good info there you might want to know about. I learned the hard way---Max's coat grew back straight and on his legs--the hair sticks straight out, and I don't mean down but horizontal and this is a cocker! It is like this:__ and not this: l

[Lara's mom]

What is your dogs condition as of today? Is there any significant improvement?

[CorkyMax]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

What is your dogs condition as of today? Is there any significant improvement?

I just got an email from JeannieSouza this morning! The dog has improved a lot----I best not say anymore than that as Jeannie may not like me doing this. Lol, I so wanted to let everyone know that I had a hard time containing myself but when I saw your post--I had to say something! Don't be mad at me Jeannie! Hope you come in soon and let everyone know the good news!

[Lara's mom]

Thanks! It's wonderful to hear that the little angel is going better!

[CorkyMax]

I got another email from Jeannie a few minutes ago and guess she is still having problems getting in the forum so she told me to go ahead and post her 1st email that she sent me because she wanted everyone to know about Mia. Told her to contact Yogi or Ethan (administrator) about trying to get her back in forum. Anyway here is copy of the email. There are some links that I can't get to work on my computer that she esp. wanted members to see---I hope they work for you as they are going thru my computer which may cause them not to work for you either! Let me know if you can get them so I can tell her if they will be able to be seen---->

Hi Barb..

Good news here about my Mia....

This past Tuesday she was able to push herself with her front legs into a sitting position.. and her little bark was coming back..

YouTube- Mia 3.wmv
Then on Thursday.. she was able to stand for a few seconds.. and on Friday even longer.. up to a minute

YouTube- Mia-4-22-2010.wmv

But Saturday morning... when I took her out... (didn't have my camera) she took her first steps... walked stiff legged for about 12 feet.... then later in the day I was able to get this footage...

YouTube- Mia Walks.wmv
Now she can get herself up on her feet... and walk a little.. seems every day she's a little better...

From all that I've read.. from all the information I've received from good hearted people like you Barb... I am pretty sure by process of elimination.. she was bitten by a tick... and it was those nasty toxins that ravaged her little body... although I did not see the tick..... the vet did find a swollen area... and on closer exam... it was a bite.. when I removed the scab.. you could see the little bite mark... there are no fleas anywhere near my property... so got no fleas on us...

It could have been a spider.. but from what I read.. spider bites cause more of an infected area at the bite...

That leaves.... a tick... a nasty toxin carrying .. tick... not sure why God made them...

As Mia gets better and better.. I will post a little Video showing her progress...

Thank you again so much for all your time .... it was people like you that encouraged me to help my little Mia... a few did suggest I put her down.. but she was not in pain.. it's a matter of fact.. she couldn't feel anything... Yes.. 10 is old for a dog.. but usually little dogs live longer.. and she was healthy... happy.. no signs of getting old... except for her little muzzel was getting grey.. I knew it was something other then degenerative disc.. because it happened too fast.. and.. the vet was stumped...

Jean Souza and Little Mia...

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Corky/Max

I got another email from Jeannie a few minutes ago and guess she is still having problems getting in the forum so she told me to go ahead and post her 1st email that she sent me because she wanted everyone to know about Mia. Told her to contact Yogi or Ethan (administrator) about trying to get her back in forum. Anyway here is copy of the email. There are some links that I can't get to work on my computer that she esp. wanted members to see---I hope they work for you as they are going thru my computer which may cause them not to work for you either! Let me know if you can get them so I can tell her if they will be able to be seen---->

Hi Barb..

Good news here about my Mia....

This past Tuesday she was able to push herself with her front legs into a sitting position.. and her little bark was coming back..

YouTube- Mia 3.wmv

Then on Thursday.. she was able to stand for a few seconds.. and on Friday even longer.. up to a minute

YouTube- Mia-4-22-2010.wmv


But Saturday morning... when I took her out... (didn't have my camera) she took her first steps... walked stiff legged for about 12 feet.... then later in the day I was able to get this footage...

YouTube- Mia Walks.wmv

Now she can get herself up on her feet... and walk a little.. seems every day she's a little better...

From all that I've read.. from all the information I've received from good hearted people like you Barb... I am pretty sure by process of elimination.. she was bitten by a tick... and it was those nasty toxins that ravaged her little body... although I did not see the tick..... the vet did find a swollen area... and on closer exam... it was a bite.. when I removed the scab.. you could see the little bite mark... there are no fleas anywhere near my property... so got no fleas on us...

It could have been a spider.. but from what I read.. spider bites cause more of an infected area at the bite...

That leaves.... a tick... a nasty toxin carrying .. tick... not sure why God made them...

As Mia gets better and better.. I will post a little Video showing her progress...

Thank you again so much for all your time .... it was people like you that encouraged me to help my little Mia... a few did suggest I put her down.. but she was not in pain.. it's a matter of fact.. she couldn't feel anything... Yes.. 10 is old for a dog.. but usually little dogs live longer.. and she was healthy... happy.. no signs of getting old... except for her little muzzel was getting grey.. I knew it was something other then degenerative disc.. because it happened too fast.. and.. the vet was stumped...

Jean Souza and Little Mia...

Glad to hear about the improvement! Hopefully she'll keep us updated once she gets into the forum!

[JeannieSouza]

Mia was feeling real good this morning.. ..took her first steps Sat... and has improved everyday since..

Today we went to the Vet's first.. Dr. Nickel was really happy to see her walking.. even on the tile floor...

I asked him... Tick? He shook his head.. and said.. no... once the tick is removed... the dog returns to normal within hours.. He said. it's something neurological.. but he's stumped as to what.. just happy she's recovering..

Then we get to church... I let Mia out of the van.. put her on the grass in front of the church just in case she needs to piddle... well... she ran.. yes... she ran along the grass.. up the HC ramp... and stopped at the front door of the church... like she knew where she was.. like she knew someone was expecting her...

We go inside... the ladies in the office were happy to see her walking... said Father Rod was over in the rectory.. so we go out the side door to the rectory.. he was out front doing some gardening... he see's me and Mia.. he says... Oh.. it's Mia... I put her down.. and she runs to him....if this was a movie.. Mia would have won best actress for this move..

He was so delighted to see her running.. he was giddy... lol... he says... Oh my.. it's a miracle.. I agreed.. it was... he invites me inside where he gathered up his prayer cloth.. and holy water.. gave her another blessing... all the time giggleing.. saying things like... last time I saw her.. she was unable to move anything.. was laying on the church floor.. and look at her now... in his prayer.. he thanked God and St. Francis for healing her and putting the smile back on her masters face..


Then we went to McDonald's Mia and Molly(my other pom) got a chicken happy meal.. one for Andy too... Andy (my old dog) was at home... being his old grumpy self.. but was glad to get the happy meal..

Life is good .. that's Andy's motto...