[sensualspirit]

So I'm sure there must be a debate about this somewhere.

While I understand the need to not overpopulate with dogs, it seems inhumane to me to do this to a dog.

I know that some breeds are too hyper without it, but that's not the case with all breeds, correct?

Also aren't we taking away their true essence when we do this?

Thanks


Michelle
P.S. LOL, Can't change the title. It's spaying.

[angiesample]

Personally i think everyone except for responsible breeders should spay/neuter there dogs. For every puppy born, 10 shelter dogs are euthanize. It doesnt "change ur dogs essence" or anything like that, in fact after they heal they dont even know any kind of differences.

If u think u can prevent ur dog from breeding then u are just fooling urself... they are animals and u cant watch ur pet 24/7, i dont care how wonderful of a pet owner u are.

I think it is extremely irresponsible to not spay/neuter ur pets unless like i said u are a reputable breeder, oh and just bc u have been around a few litters of pups does NOT make u a true breeder it takes a lot of work and a ton of research as well as hands on experience before u can even think about breeding a dog.

Sorry if i seem a little forceful but i have a very strong opinion about this.. i volunteer at my local humane society so i see what happens when ppl dont spay/neuter. if u are unsure volunteer at one of ur local shelters, u will quickly learn how safe the procedure is and how important it is for the majority of dogs.

"save a life adopt a dog, save thousands of lives spay/neuter ur pets!!"

[Yogi]

To first correct, the term is spaying not spading.
The reasons for this procedure are primarily medical.
In most cases it prevents cancer from developing whether teet or testicle.
It does not address "hyper". In male dogs it does slow down the urge depending on age at time of neuter. A dog that is neutered after it comes into its first season which males do also, prevents issues such as marking as well as the urge to act on a female in season. Males who are neutered later often will still tie with an intact female.
In females the main concern is the hormones which can over time play havoc with their system if not allowed to breed. By spaying at an early age, it prevents these hormones from causing medical and health issues down the road.
Unless you have experienced cancer in a dog it is hard to comprehend or understand.
Dogs are rarely hyper. Hyper implies and medical condition. Dogs depending on the breed or breeds are high energy. This is typically found in the terriers as well as herding dogs.

[sensualspirit]

I already corrected myself.

I don't understand. Are you saying that all dogs end up with medical conditions?

I mean old age is understandable, but why would almost all dogs end up with medical conditions?

Interesting that she has to mate. I guess that's her natural course.

A dog we had when growing up was very hyper. He used to jump (& never stop) when people came around him. It was annoying to say the least.

I'm not a breeder & would never pretend to be one I'm not.

I'm looking for someone out there who's more holistic in their mindset to weigh in on this.

Thanks


Michelle

[cigwyllt]

I am passionately pro spay/castration. You are concerned that it is "inhumane" but what is "humane" about allowing your dog to experience every 6 months or so a powerful, overwhelming urge to mate but denying her the experience? Do you plan to vaccinate? That is "unnatural" but most people do that because it is preventative. In our family - from my childhood and into marriage we have had 5 bitches over the past 40 years. Two of them were not spayed and died young from hormone related cancers. The rest were spayed - one, a golden retriever died at the age of 15, one is 12/13 and one is 7. The spayed girls have never needed a medical visit to the vet, have never been ill and our old girl fell asleep peacefully in her basket and never woke up.

Compared to the experience of watching the other two dogs suffer I would never, ever leave a bitch entire.

With regard to castration I have to say that in my experience it made no difference to the length of the dogs' lives. My parents had an entire dog that lived to be 17 and our entire dog also died at 17. Our castrated dog, a brother to the entire one from a different litter, died at the age of 18. The dog I have now is castrated. My dog isn't and hasn't ever been "hyper" or over excitable. But neither is he driven by hormones that he can not use. He is content and outgoing with other dogs and gets on fine with them all.

I understand that you want to take a holistic approach to caring for your dog(s) but IMO initial vaccinations and neutering are part of responsible pet ownership.

If you lived in isolation on your own land it might be feasible to allow them to be unvaccinated and entire but if you live in a more urban area where there will be other entire dogs or bitches it is a huge risk. You can not overestimate the strength of will or a dog in the vicinity of a bitch in season or the craftiness of a bitch in season who smells a dog - and bear in mind that these scents can carry for 2 miles or so. Accidents can happen to the most careful of owners and then you have responsibility for a litter of pups whether you own the dog or the bitch.

[sensualspirit]

Ok, that's for bitches, what about with males?

Why did you only ever pick bitches to own?


Michelle

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

I already corrected myself.

I don't understand. Are you saying that all dogs end up with medical conditions?

I mean old age is understandable, but why would almost all dogs end up with medical conditions?

Interesting that she has to mate. I guess that's her natural course.

A dog we had when growing up was very hyper. He used to jump (& never stop) when people came around him. It was annoying to say the least.

I'm not a breeder & would never pretend to be one I'm not.

I'm looking for someone out there who's more holistic in their mindset to weigh in on this.

Thanks


Michelle

To note, all breeds are subject to health and or genetic predisposed issues.
It is also important on this forum to understand that if you ask a question, you are going to receive answers/replies and cannot request that only certain people provide them ie: holistic. There are very few holistic believers here, primarily due to the fact that these are dogs and do not comprehend human beliefs. I have been involved with rescue and raising as well as breeding for over 50 years. I have seen the results of those that claim to be holistic when it comes to their dogs. In most cases, they were very unhealthy and sickly. It is not to say if done properly it could not work but unfortunately for the most part, I have not seen the good, only the bad.
Most that come here come here seeking advice from experienced dog owners.
This is what we provide here to those who are seeking advice. Members here have a great deal of experience to offer and generally the advice is taken since our first concern is with the dog. I personally own 28 dogs.

[cigwyllt]

Sorry Michelle - I hit send too soon. I have covered my experience with dogs as well. I would always choose to own a dog rather than a bitch but the girls all found their own way into our homes and our hearts!

[moxie]

I am a firm believer in spay/neuter ... It prevents the already disgraceful overpopulation of dogs and puppies being killed simply because they were born. The other side of the coin is that it prevents medical issues down the road and behavioral problems, an un neutered male will travel to the moon if he gets the scent of a female in heat. Major medical schools and hospitals are now pro early "fixing". My rescue from Arkansas arrived at 12 weeks, already spayed.
Spay/ Neuter, don't Litter! Having puppies is not cute, it just adds to the already homeless puppies in need.
Can you tell I am passionate on this topic!
I pick puppies up coming from the South that are basically tossed in a dumpster shoot .... It will be endless until people get their dogs fixed.

[Lunareclipse]

I do not believe their is a holistic solution to keeping a dog intact. If there really was a viable holistic solution to to make an intact dog not feel the urge to breed, then everyone would be doing it. Get your dog spayed/neutered. A male dog can smell a female in heat from over a mile away. Some will go through anything to get to a bitch in heat, like chew a hole in your fence. They can become really testy and snappy if they smell a bitch in heat and they can't do anything about it. I do agree with finding holistic soultions where they can be found, but there is not one that's anywhere near as gauranteed as getting your dog fixed.

[lange]

My opinion is that personal opinions shouldn't matter in this case. Being responsible to your dog, regardless of what you think or feel should trump opinions.

Whether someones beliefs lean towards being holistic, not wanting to spend the money, feeling sorry for a dog, not wanting to alter personality, wanting to breed without investing time & money, or whatever other excuse people come up with is just an excuse. Instead of asking why neuter or spay; the better question is why not?
Is a woman who has gone through menopause any less a woman? Any less balanced spiritually, physically or mentally? If anything they are in an even better balance seeing as hormones, which are not a legitimate part of our whole self, are undercontrol.

[reeskujo]

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

So I'm sure there must be a debate about this somewhere.

While I understand the need to not overpopulate with dogs, it seems inhumane to me to do this to a dog.

I know that some breeds are too hyper without it, but that's not the case with all breeds, correct?

Also aren't we taking away their true essence when we do this?

Thanks

First of all it's not inhumane...Have you ever seen what a male dog acts like when he isn't neutered and the lengths he'll go to to get to the family not to mention they can become aggressive, then think of the puppies who wind up in shelters and get put down simply because theirs no room for them now that's inhumane...Do you know what to even look for in dam and a sire? If you can't answer these question you're far from ready to breed...Also do you know how to help either the tie if need be or how to break it up when your girl has had enough? you also know they can only get pregnant on certain days of their cycle! BTW there is no reason not to spay and neuter unless the dog will be a show dog and even after they've retired they get fixed..I'm sorry but your reason for breeding is selfish and at the dog and pups expense if you ask me! I'm really not trying to be mean I just feel it's my duty as a responsible breeder as well as a dog trainer to tell you A- you're not ready and in answer to your question no,it does not take away from their true essence.Not to mention the younger they're done the better... Seigi was done at 4 months,did great and his personality haven't changed a bit also not spaying a female at a decent age makes her prone to Pyometra which causes pus to fill up the uterus and then they have no other chose to do a hysterectomy


Michelle
P.S. LOL, Can't change the title. It's spaying.

I don't think it's any different then woman having a hysterectomy or a man a vasectomy..It doesn't make them any less of a woman or a man...When a dog is spayed or neutered you're preventing health issues in the future and with the males you're sparing them countless days of frustration....I take it you've never seen how aggressive a male dog can be when there's a female around in his...As for a debate on the subject you'll find this is the opinion of responsible owners,breeders vets and shelters as well.

All breeds are different in the energy level and quite honestly spaying/neutering doesn't change that much since it's just the way the breed is..Fixing your dog doesn't change much of their personality other then being less aggressive and not having the need to roam when a female is in heat.

[sensualspirit]

Thanks Cig & everyone else.


Michelle

[CorkyMax]

I get this suspicion that all these questions you are asking have nothing much to do with why you say you are asking!!! I believe you are collecting data to write a book!!--How about that!?

[reeskujo]

First of all the behavior you describe of you dog is plain and simple lack of training...You keep talking about holistics but you never say what it for...Are you referring to food,medicine,etc?