Dog fight - I need help

Daisy · 04-09-2011

Hello everyone. I have two dogs, Daisy and Juniper. They are a year apart and both have been with me since they were puppies. Daisy is now four and Juniper is almost three. I've never had any issues with them fighting before. They've practically grown up together.

Tonight, we had them out back and one of the neighborhood dogs came wandering by the fence. We're not sure who started it or who growled first. But the next thing we knew we had a dog fight on our hands. Juniper had Daisy by the back of the neck and started shaking her. My husband was able to get them apart and I brought Daisy into the house to check her for any wounds. There weren't any, thank god. She has a couple scrapes and that's it.

The problem is that now we can't even seem to leave them together. We held both of them and tried to let them sniff at each other. Juniper was sniffing and licking on Daisy, and then Daisy just lunged at her. Once that happened, Juniper tried to lunge at Daisy and we ended up with broken glass everywhere once some tables got knocked over.

I don't know what to do. If I have to get rid of any of my dogs I will be heartbroken. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with this and can give me some advice as to what I should do. I've been in tears for the last two hours now.

Thank you in advance.

We have Juniper in her crate now and she seems ok.

lange · 04-09-2011

I;m sorry you're so upset. What happened is called redirected aggression. Here's some info: ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist - Aggression in Dogs Read further down: "Redirected Aggression" & also "Frustration-Elicited Aggression". One of my dogs also does this but not as severely. Are your girls spayed? Which breed are they? Do they get well exercised? A lot of this factors in on behavior like this.

Hopefully they'll both cool down by tomorrow.

Daisy · 04-09-2011

Thank you for the link. I will read it as soon as I'm done replying.

They are both shelter mutts. From what we can tell, Daisy is a Jack/Chihuahua mix and Juniper is a lab mix of some sort. She has a curly tail though, so we aren't sure. The best we figure is that she might have some Akita in her. They are both normally very even tempered and sweet. Juniper lets the neighborhood kids ride her, although I put a stop to it when I catch them in my back yard on top of her.

We've had a few passes by the crate and no growling so far. I'm just hoping that this will work itself out over the next couple of days. If it doesn't, then I am going to call my vet for some more suggestions. I told my husband that if I have to drug them until they love each other again, I will (joking, of course).

lange · 04-12-2011

Hi! How are your girls now? Things back to normal?

If they're not both spayed you should look into that. If Juniper is part Akita, you def want to keep an eye on any further aggression. Akita's can be high maintenance in that area, especially when it's between same sexed dogs. My dog who shows signs of excited aggression is also a female akita..

BTW If you'd like you can add a photo to your post & we might be able to help tell whether juniper is part Akita. We have some one on here who is very knowledgeable w/them/

Daisy · 04-12-2011

We are still having to keep them separated. Juniper has been fine, but it's Daisy that starts to growl whenever Juniper gets close to her. I can't blame Daisy for being scared now.

We checked Juniper over really well and she didn't have a scratch on her after the ordeal. Daisy had quite a few though, and since she got shook around by the neck, we took her to the vet Monday morning. He said that he was shocked that Daisy was in such good condition. Also, knowing Juniper and how strong she is, he said that he believes that she COULD have hurt Daisy more if she had wanted to. That it was probably a warning for Daisy to settle down, but that now that it has started, it will escalate. He gave me some pointers which included increasing the time that she spends doing rigorous activity, so we have done that. We are feeding them all separately as well. Juniper also is being crated at night, and I have to sleep in the living room with her or she whines. :P

I am just horrified that 30 seconds completely changed how things are in the house.

Here are the pictures you requested. I am going to try to take some that are better today. The one titled IMG_1623 was the day that we brought her home from the shelter. But it showed her tail better, so I wanted to include it. The yellow fur still drives me nuts when I see it. :P

DoggieVogue · 04-14-2011

Hopefully the increased activity will wear them out, and take the edge off of both dogs. All of the vets tips seem like a good idea, and that they will help. Maybe it's just a phase for the dogs that will soon grow out of. Good luck!

lange · 04-15-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy

We are still having to keep them separated. Juniper has been fine, but it's Daisy that starts to growl whenever Juniper gets close to her. I can't blame Daisy for being scared now.

We checked Juniper over really well and she didn't have a scratch on her after the ordeal. Daisy had quite a few though, and since she got shook around by the neck, we took her to the vet Monday morning. He said that he was shocked that Daisy was in such good condition. Also, knowing Juniper and how strong she is, he said that he believes that she COULD have hurt Daisy more if she had wanted to. That it was probably a warning for Daisy to settle down, but that now that it has started, it will escalate. He gave me some pointers which included increasing the time that she spends doing rigorous activity, so we have done that. We are feeding them all separately as well. Juniper also is being crated at night, and I have to sleep in the living room with her or she whines. :P

I am just horrified that 30 seconds completely changed how things are in the house.

Here are the pictures you requested. I am going to try to take some that are better today. The one titled IMG_1623 was the day that we brought her home from the shelter. But it showed her tail better, so I wanted to include it. The yellow fur still drives me nuts when I see it. :P

Juniper's a cutie! I don't see any resemblance to an Akita, which is probably a good thing. I also think that the more they're both exercised the less pent up energy they'll have. If Daisy still isn't at ease with Juniper, you might want to try walking them together, with someone walking one & you the other. Once they drain their energy you might be able to get them to walk next to each other with less issues. If you keep doing for a few days you might help mend the rift Daisy feels.

Lunareclipse · 04-15-2011

Walking them together might help a lot. I have to walk my oldest saint bernard with a dog that she has never met in order to avoid her wanting to attack. After she gets walked with another dog, she is just fine. Why is that?

lange · 04-15-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunareclipse

Walking them together might help a lot. I have to walk my oldest saint bernard with a dog that she has never met in order to avoid her wanting to attack. After she gets walked with another dog, she is just fine. Why is that?

I think there's two reasons. One, it starts ingraining that they're both one in the same pack since they rely on their behavior & the physical aspect of the walk to solidify their roles to each other. Two, the last scenario they're left with is in viewing each other through a positive experience. So they end their view of each other in unity. (or 'begin' in that case)

Daisy · 04-15-2011

We've been walking them every night after dinner and we've seen a little bit of improvement. They do just fine when they're out and about in the neighborhood. When we get back inside the house though, they start to have issues again. It hasn't escalated into the knock down and drag out that it has been, but there is still some growling and barring of the teeth.

I've noticed that Daisy gets really antsy when Juniper barks, so I've considered getting one of those spray bark collars. I've been wanting to keep her from barking at anyone that passes by anyways. Especially a little girl that walks her service dog by my house every day. Every day around 3 I have to shut all the windows and blinds in the living room so Juniper can't see when they walk by. It isn't an aggressive bark. It's just Juniper saying hi. But still, I know that it makes the girl a little nervous. Juniper got out one day and ran up to her and the dog and just wanted to lick her hands. I wish I could explain to my dog that the other dog is working and she shouldn't disturb it. :P

You guys have really been wonderful and helped calm me down a lot through all of this. So thank you very much. (((hugs)))

Daisy · 04-21-2011

Well, it happened again last night. This time it was much worse. We were out back throwing the ball around. Things had gotten much better in the house and we figured that as long as they were chaperoned that they would be alright. We were wrong.

Daisy and Juniper both went for the ball. Juniper accidentally knocked into Daisy and that sent Daisy into a rage. We were quickly on our way to the emergency vet with both dogs, my husband and I all covered in blood. And with bite marks all over my husbands arm. They're both alright now. Juniper didn't have more than a couple scratches. Daisy had a through and through puncture on her tongue, A bunch of cuts on her face and ears and around her neck and legs.

The vet has already done a liver test on Daisy to make sure that she didn't have aggression from a shunt. Today they ran a thyroid test. If that comes back clear, then we are going to make a 4 hour trek once a week to a specialist in Raleigh who will do private training with us and all three dogs. The vet also gave us some pheramone (spelling?) collars and some treats that are supposed to calm them. Of course they're both stoned on their painkillers right now, so it isn't a huge issue.

The vet also said that she believes that Juniper is a mix between a border collie and lab. I'm ashamed to admit that if that's the case, she isn't being exercised enough. Only about an hour a day. She needs more.

This has been a very expensive lesson. I feel awful and down right guilty. I've always been a cat person, so these dogs are our first. We were lulled into a false sense of security and didn't realize that one day Juniper and Daisy might fight for dominance in the house. Thankfully Maggie, the puppy, hasn't displayed any of this yet as she is still only about 9 months old. But she's going to training with us as well to get this taken care of now.

lange · 04-22-2011

Geez. I'm sorry

I'm sure it's very upsetting. I hope you get some answers soon. If it's turns out not to be a medical cause, I think a professional dog behaviorist is a great investment. Just make sure you're spending your time, money & effort on someone's advice you value. Anyway, I wish you the best.

Also, whatever the cause may be, I would additionally suggest you & your husband also get back down to basics at home. Structure & rules are very important & anything that you may have been letting slide needs to be lassoed back in. Take a new look at groundwork. Make sure you're laying a strong foundation of who is in charge at home. Any time you have issues between dogs, you want to be certain you have the highest hand (authority) in the home. That way you might be able to correct behaviors (while being listened to!) before they escalate.

I hate to ask again, but I don't think you ever mentioned whether all of your girls are spayed?
Good luck again!! Let us know what the results are on the thyroid.