About a month ago I rescued a black lab/pitbull named Rocky. He is almost 10 weeks old now and is such a sweetheart sometimes, but he has a bit of a stubborn streak.

I have a few things I have been having issues with, and I was wondering if anyone could maybe help me to find a solution?

Rocky has been nipping and biting a lot lately. There are plenty of rawhides and toys around for him to chew on, but he seems more interested in feet, hands, pants, etc. I have ignored him and removed myself from the situation but it doesn't seem to phase him. He just continues to bite...and with his sharp puppy teeth it is pretty painful!

I have also been having some problems with him barking and growling. A lot of times it is when I'm trying to get him to stop biting. I don't raise my voice and yell at him, because that only seems to make him bark and talk back even more. Instead I give him a toy or something else to divert his attention. But it still continues. He will just sit there and bark and bark and bark at you, and not in a playful way.

Do anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

Stop and think for a minute how a mother dog would discipline her pup. She's swift, she's definite, and she leaves no doubt in his mind that his behavior is inappropriate. The biggest mistake people make when dealing with an obstreperous pup of this age is not making things clear.

Distractions with toys are fine if the pup is chewing on the furniture or other forbidden items. But not when they're chewing on us! Mother dog would not try distracting Bratly by offering him something else to chew on. She'd stand up, place her mouth over him, and growl. If that didn't make the point, she'd take it up a notch. She'd scruff him, shake him, all the while growling.

Now, I'm not suggesting you bite your puppy. But I would suggest you get a little physical about correcting him. A pinch on the back of the neck, with hand open, fingers curled like claws, is your substitute bite. Use your voice. Yelp "OUCH!" and "pinch" him. Growl "Knock that off" or "That's ENOUGH."

I'd also start making him work for things he wants. Make him sit and wait for his meals. Don't allow him to demand attention. If you allow him on the furniture, make him wait until he's been invited. And do not allow him to sleep in your bed, at least until he learns some manners.

It's also not too early to start obedience training with him. Start teaching him sit, down, and wait. Teach him to walk on a leash. Establish yourself as his leader. When he starts getting pushy, snap that leash on and give him a 10 minute training session.

As soon as he's had his puppy vaccinations, get him into a puppy training class. And make sure he's getting a lot of exercise. A tired puppy is a good puppy.

well we can't stop dogs to bark because they are built to that, it's like you are stopping a person to stop talking and when it comes to biting, you should put away objects that he can bite

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by vetgroomer

Stop and think for a minute how a mother dog would discipline her pup. She's swift, she's definite, and she leaves no doubt in his mind that his behavior is inappropriate. The biggest mistake people make when dealing with an obstreperous pup of this age is not making things clear.

I have to agree, the biggest mistake is to not communicate clearly, but if I'm not a dog, why do I care what mama dog would do?

Distractions with toys are fine if the pup is chewing on the furniture or other forbidden items. But not when they're chewing on us! Mother dog would not try distracting Bratly by offering him something else to chew on. She'd stand up, place her mouth over him, and growl. If that didn't make the point, she'd take it up a notch. She'd scruff him, shake him, all the while growling.

I don't follow your logic. How do you know mama dog wouldn't offer an appropriate chew if she understood what an appropriate chew was? That's like saying dogs should eat only raw meat because they can't cook.

Now, I'm not suggesting you bite your puppy. But I would suggest you get a little physical about correcting him. A pinch on the back of the neck, with hand open, fingers curled like claws, is your substitute bite. Use your voice. Yelp "OUCH!" and "pinch" him. Growl "Knock that off" or "That's ENOUGH."

What about if you hurt the dog and he becomes fearful of your touch? What then? If the objective is not to hurt the dog, why be physical at all?

It's also not too early to start obedience training with him. Start teaching him sit, down, and wait. Teach him to walk on a leash. Establish yourself as his leader. When he starts getting pushy, snap that leash on and give him a 10 minute training session.

Why would you leash correct a dog that hasn't been taught the behavior?

Piti....

1. Mother knows best. The best model for dog behavior is a dog. A mother dog knows instinctively how to best communicate and discipline her puppy. And she rarely has to teach a lesson more than twice. How many of us can say the same thing? She must know something we don't. So perhaps you should care what a mother dog would do, because she can get the job done better than you or I. Mainly because she hasn't read a lot of training books that tell her she should only use "positive" methods.

Besides, the example quoted was in reference to the fact that mother dogs respond quickly and definitely, and leave no doubt about what they're saying.

2. What makes you think a mother dog doesn't know what's appropriate to chew on? In a mother dog's mind, the world is OK to chew on. But biting other members of the family is not appropriate, and she'll let him know it, in no uncertain terms. Of course, this does not include play biting, but if play turns serious, she disciplines. If puppy is being obnoxious, she disciplines.

3. An open handed "pinch" is not going to hurt a puppy. But even if it did, do you think it would hurt any more than the discipline provided by a mother dog? Somehow I doubt it. I don't know about anyone else, but my fingers don't have teeth. Mother dogs, on the other hand, do. And they use them to great effect.

4. Why be physical? Because the puppy is being physical. He understands physical. He understands, because he's a dog, and he was physically disciplined by his mother. By your logic, a puppy would become afraid of his mother's "touch", and how often do you see that happen? They learn to respect mom, but they don't fear her.

5. I don't believe I said anything about "leash correcting." I said to use it as a training exercise. Use it to teach puppy how he's supposed to behave. And use that training to reinforce your position as leader. To quote myself; "...snap that leash on give him a 10 minute TRAINING session." If he's misbehaving, why would giving him a 10 minute training session to teach him proper behavior be wrong?

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by vetgroomer

Piti....

1. Mother knows best. The best model for dog behavior is a dog. A mother dog knows instinctively how to best communicate and discipline her puppy. And she rarely has to teach a lesson more than twice. How many of us can say the same thing? She must know something we don't. So perhaps you should care what a mother dog would do, because she can get the job done better than you or I. Mainly because she hasn't read a lot of training books that tell her she should only use "positive" methods.

Perhaps mama dog should read some books because the method as you described it, is by definition, positive punishment. But I won't berate you with that oversight. If I employ your logic, and I answer that none of us can teach as mama dog would (as you so implied), we should not do what mama dog does, or we're doomed to fail. Or are you suggesting your average dog owner is as effective as mama dog? I don't think you would find many people who would agree people do dog as well as dog does dog. In fact, I'd say people do dog very poorly, so too positive punishment.

Besides, the example quoted was in reference to the fact that mother dogs respond quickly and definitely, and leave no doubt about what they're saying.

Why would you presume less aversive techniques would be absent of this criteria? If you didn't presume that, why didn't you recommend such?

2. What makes you think a mother dog doesn't know what's appropriate to chew on? In a mother dog's mind, the world is OK to chew on. But biting other members of the family is not appropriate, and she'll let him know it, in no uncertain terms. Of course, this does not include play biting, but if play turns serious, she disciplines. If puppy is being obnoxious, she disciplines.

Your argument is more rhetorical than an actual response to the question I posed. The only acceptable answer is, we don't know what mama dog deems as an appropriate chew, we're not asking the dog to live under doggie defined rules. We're asking the dog to live under human rules. Therefore our approach should be tailored to our humanity. My humanity says to start with a method that does no harm, and least is the least aversive. What does your humanity say?

3. An open handed "pinch" is not going to hurt a puppy. But even if it did, do you think it would hurt any more than the discipline provided by a mother dog? Somehow I doubt it. I don't know about anyone else, but my fingers don't have teeth. Mother dogs, on the other hand, do. And they use them to great effect.

Wow, I can go in so many directions with this statement. I'll start here... How would you quantify a dog's senses? Would you place them on the same scale as human senses? Or would you agree a dog's senses are far more acute than ours, including their sense of administering pain? If you do agree, why would you then deduce that a dog's sense of pain is equal to ours? No one knows for sure, why would you err on the opposite side of logic? Then, consider a dog's nature is to mask signs of weakness and pain...what did this say about your perception of the consequence?

4. Why be physical? Because the puppy is being physical. He understands physical. He understands, because he's a dog, and he was physically disciplined by his mother. By your logic, a puppy would become afraid of his mother's "touch", and how often do you see that happen? They learn to respect mom, but they don't fear her.

No, by my logic I am not a dog, and can not under any pretense assume I can communicate like a dog. The ritualistic behavior of dogs, I'm sorry, is owned by dogs, not a human who thinks she's speaking dog. But you didn't answer my question, what happens if the dog does become fearful of his owner? Why would you risk the classical conditioning fallout for a behavior that most dogs can learn to cease without physical manipulations?

5. I don't believe I said anything about "leash correcting." I said to use it as a training exercise. Use it to teach puppy how he's supposed to behave. And use that training to reinforce your position as leader. To quote myself; "...snap that leash on give him a 10 minute TRAINING session." If he's misbehaving, why would giving him a 10 minute training session to teach him proper behavior be wrong?

I'm sorry, when you said "snap that leash" I thought you meant as in a leash correction. But how does attaching a leash on the pup teach him status? Most dogs find the barrier of a leash frustrating (ie, punishing). You do not get behavior from punishment, or status for that matter. You can only get behavior through reinforcement. I'm not making this up, read the definition of punishment and reinforcement as they are defined in learning theory.

[Piti Longstalking]

To the OP...you have to be very careful about what advice you take away from an internet forum. Some of the advice can be really good, and a lot of can a quarter of a century behind the times. The experts agree that advocating physical punishment is a bad idea:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- On Punishment

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

As far as advice that's relevant to you, you don't have to accept mine, but I'll guide you to another expert in the field, Dr. Ian Dunbar. Unlike many of us, he has studied dog behavior, and has the scientific background to support his methods. You may find these two articles useful. Good luck!

The Bite Stops Here

http://dogstardaily.com/files/Body%20Language.pdf

Vetgroomers advice is correct. It appears to me that Piti longstonking is just trying to be a jerk.

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by splinters

Vetgroomers advice is correct. It appears to me that Piti longstonking is just trying to be a jerk.

If you have nothing to offer, why do you choose to be insulting? If I recall, that's against the forum rules.

Besides, i'm not here to win a high school popularity contest. So what exactly do you take exception to from what I've stated? Is the defense of dogs an oddity in your life?

There are afew simple ways to stop the pupster biting. Give ya elp when he does it. If he doesn't stop try growling. We found it very effective. Something that tastes horrible on the hands is a real winner.
Get some dog play friends. We found our dogs quickly learnt the rules when playtime was with other similar sized dogs.
The main thing though is exercise. As much as possible let the dog out to play and tire itself out or go for lots of short walks to ensure you don't over exert the pupster.
Hope these are of some help.

Wow!!! What a feedback you received! Personally I found Vetgroomer very interesting.

I found when it came to puppy biting of the hands, is not to pull the hand away. Instead make a 'soft fist' and allow the hand to stay in the mouth. The dog very quickly realises it is no game and will pull back. Keep going with your hand in this manner! They soon stop! (mind-u my dog is a Beagle cross, so different teeth! good-luck). NO I do not mean shove your hand down its throat either.

A loud pitch of an 'ouch' really does work - as two dogs playing will do this when play goes too far. Also it is better to understand the dog rather than get them to understand you so read as much as you can and then go with what you feel is best for your dog! Remember 10 - 15 mins of mental training is equal to 1/2 hour exercise. Dogs need both and with this you bond quickly with your dog..... that in itself is very cool.

Ice-cubes are great when they are teething and will help numb the gums. Marple syrup rubbed into the gums not only helps with glucose into their system but keeps them entertained with the yummies............

Originally Posted by Piti Longstalking

If you have nothing to offer, why do you choose to be insulting? If I recall, that's against the forum rules.

Besides, i'm not here to win a high school popularity contest. So what exactly do you take exception to from what I've stated? Is the defense of dogs an oddity in your life?

You should be able to respond to a person's question with your own suggestion's and not resort to trying to tear down and insult someone else's suggestion as you have done. Practically sentence by sentence. I'm not going to respond to you anymore, I think you got my point.

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by splinters

You should be able to respond to a person's question with your own suggestion's and not resort to trying to tear down and insult someone else's suggestion as you have done. Practically sentence by sentence. I'm not going to respond to you anymore, I think you got my point.

I actually don't get your point at all, nor do I find any value in your contributions. Who's to say the OP wouldn't find my contradictions to what has been suggested useful? You're certainly not the authoritarian on that matter, you called me a jerk. But the last time I checked, this was a discussion board, that exists and thrives from guess what?...discussions. If you find these discussions insulting, perhaps you should find another venue where your emotions are less likely to be annoyed by...discussions. Otherwise, let those who can be civil, be.

I wish this would not turn into an agrument... everyone can put in their ideas and the OP can read them all and try what they feel comfortable with. While I am a clicker trainer I do think that IGNORING biting is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! By ignoring, yes you do not mark/reward the behavior, thus not making it a positive thing, but ignoring it also does not tell the puppy that it is NOT ok. There are simple non-violent ways to "correct" a dog, I am not into the Cesar Milan physical methods of "biting" and kicking dogs but do feel that saying NO and letting out a loud OUCH! works very well. Also a quick spray of bitter apple in the mouth or on your hand while saying "No Bite" can work wonders

I really appreciate all of the input. I have tried the yelping when he bites too hard, but he still doesn't seem to get it. I don't know if it is because he was taken from his mother too young? My friend rescued him from a house that had 4 puppies all stuffed in a cage. He couldn't keep the dog so I got Rocky when he was about six weeks and I don't know anything about what his first 6 weeks were like. My parent's dog (Jake, 100+lb Golden Retriever) is going to be 8yrs old and doesn't like to play with the puppy when he is around. He growls and barks and Rocky to warn him to back off and it does not even phase him. Jake has never gotten physical..he just barks and growls and runs away, but Rocky never stands down. Maybe he's just a brave little boy? Too brave?? :???:

[Piti Longstalking]

6 Weeks?!!! That could be a predicament. You best enroll in a puppy class ASAP. Your dog is at a ripe age to do so. If the elder dog isn't interested in being a teacher, being bitten by another pup at a formative age may be your answer.

I doubt being taken from his mother has much to do with it. Biting and nipping is something that dogs do instinctively. Were he still with his brothers and sisters and mother he would "play fight" with them too. They are skills that he would need if he were going to live the life a natural dog would, out in the wild.

However! Since you aren't going to be letting him loose, you need to teach him the skills that he'll need for the life he'll have with you. Like one of the other posters said, you are the new Mama. You need to teach him, simply pulling your hand away, or saying ow isn't going to register. Especially pulling your hand away, that makes it look like tag, which dogs find very fun.

You have to think of puppies as speaking a different language, because technically, they do. Just like babies. So associate some action with "Ow" or "Stop". Maybe close his mouth when you say "ow". And reward him when he does it right.

Swatting him or giving a quick pinch to the back of the neck is not harmful to the puppy. Have you ever noticed that that's how mother animals carry their young? It actually releases endorphins and calms the puppy. Mothers in the wild will hold their babies like that when danger is coming so that the baby will not whine and be fearful. Feel free to look that up.

Should you beat the crap out of your puppy? Absolutely not. However, you do need to let the puppy know who is in charge. And being fearful and not correcting his actions makes him think that he is top dog, and any trainer, whether they believe in physical punishment or not will tell you that is not the way to train any animal.


*As a suggestion on the side, I highly recommend watching "Its Me or the Dog" on Animal Planet. I have picked up quite a few tricks that I've used on my dogs and they have been fantastic.

[lil mutt]

Do not let your pets bite you because it can be a sign of aggression. You should show him that you are the boss and no biting is allowed.

Originally Posted by Piti Longstalking

6 Weeks?!!! That could be a predicament. You best enroll in a puppy class ASAP. Your dog is at a ripe age to do so. If the elder dog isn't interested in being a teacher, being bitten by another pup at a formative age may be your answer.

I know . If it were an ideal situation I would have preferred that he spent more time with his mother and siblings. Unfortunately that wasn't the case...I think it would have been worse for him to stay in the conditions he was in. We are taking private lessons right now (only one to date) but I really make an effort to take him out with me to the pet store and interact with some other dogs. I don't know of any dog parks in my area, not to mention it is the dead of winter and a lot of deep snow so I don't know if they are accessible.

Thanks for the advice!

Piti, I did not say "Snap that leash." I said "Snap that leash ON." As in attach it to the dog's collar, which usually involves a snap, does it not? No, the simple act of attaching the leash doesn't teach the dog much. It's what's happening on the other end of the leash that determines what the dog learns. Putting a leash of the dog and instituting a short lesson in SOMETHING teaches the dog. It may be heeling, sitting, staying. And in the process the dog learns to look to the human for direction and leadership.

In response to your comment about how I would quantify a dog's sense of pain. This I know for a fact. If you study anatomy and physiology, dogs do not have the same number of pain receptors and nerve endings in their skin that a human does. Dogs routinely bite each other during play, and don't get mad or express any pain response unless one dog gets carried away and becomes too rough. If they bite me the same way, it hurts. This would lead me to believe that an open handed pinch which does not hurt ME isn't going to hurt a dog.

Piti, one can most certainly learn what a dog's body language is, and mimic some, but not all, of that same language. Dogs "read" us better than we usually "read" them. But if we pay attention, and take the opportunity to educate ourselves, we CAN learn to speak a passable dog. Training is a lot easier if you can communicate in the same language, and since dogs can't learn to speak in any language, we have to learn to speak dog.

I live with a behavioral psychologist. I've read and studied all the theories about learning, conditioned responses, modifying behavior, blah blah blah. There is a big difference between learning through problem solving and a conditioned response. I don't want conditioned responses, which require constant reinforcement if you don't want the dog to "forget". I want my dogs to think, solve the problem and thereby achieve true learning.