[sandyh]

Thank you for posting all those links. I have been trying to read up on all of them. taking me several days. Theres alot of reading there not sure how the other posters got through with all of it in less than a couple of hours from the last time they posted.

Any how it is always nice to read up on the criticism part of it to, to understand where the man may be doing the wrong thing. I do know that what i have seen on his shows are scared out of control dogs that he has made controllable and not so scared.
You talk of how he hung a little dog up off the floor by the scruff of his neck. Well isnt that how a mother dog carries them? You also spoke about him not knowing what a german shepard was- that was hard to believe since he has several of his own. Even if it were true and he didnt know the brand does he have to know every mix?
I wasnt trying to push cesar millan down anyones throats, I just believe by what i have seen out of a hundred shows that somethings do work. It was just my opinion. and if i felt it might help someone else than by all means try it. If you feel like it wouldnt help then dont try it, isnt that what these forums are for or have i come to the wrong place. are we all suppose to sit around guessing what everybodys dog breeds are or what there name is or look at there pics over and over and over again,Please clear this up for me so i know if i am really on the right forums.because if i am not i wont waste any more of my time or the other poster times.

[Lara's mom]

Absolutely, this is first and foremost a discussion forum. However, due to the nature of the forum there are bound to be differing opinions. People here are almost always respectful in stating their opinions and they generally have information to back up their particular stand on a subject. Personally, I love to see a healthy debate going on, especially when it involves several of the members.

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by sandyh

You talk of how he hung a little dog up off the floor by the scruff of his neck. Well isnt that how a mother dog carries them?

As much as we want to communicate like dogs, sadly, we'll always be just humans. Dogs know they're dogs, and we humans should know we're humans.

I wasnt trying to push cesar millan down anyones throats, I just believe by what i have seen out of a hundred shows that somethings do work.

The question one should ask is, if it works is that good enough? I can teach your dog how to down many different ways, I can wait for him to down on his own and reward him, I can use a food lure to guide him to a down, I can push him down with my hands, or I can bonk a brick off his head. Now certainly what works isn't good enough if a brick will do. So it becomes an ethics question. What is the best way to get behavior, ethically? Since we want to communicate with an animal who's motives may be different than ours, we have to employ our humanity. And, our humanity would say using the most effective, and least aversive method, first, is the most humane way to go. Cesar does not choose methods based on ethics. He chooses methods based on what he believes works, and he justifies them using flawed dominance theory. This is potentially harmful in the wrong hands, and no you should not try it at home!

Everything he does has it's place in dog training, but a true professional doesn't grab a hammer when a tape measure will do. Sadly, those watching him at home are far from professional.

If you feel like it wouldnt help then dont try it, isnt that what these forums are for or have i come to the wrong place. are we all suppose to sit around guessing what everybodys dog breeds are or what there name is or look at there pics over and over and over again,Please clear this up for me so i know if i am really on the right forums.because if i am not i wont waste any more of my time or the other poster times.

I believe you were allowed you opinion. It's not easy for people to accept a contradictory opinion. If that's you, forums in general are probably not a good place for your mental health. If you can employ reason and logic to investigate contradictory opinions, I'd say that's were progress is had, and where the utility of forums like this can be enjoyed.

[ouidog]

Interesting!

[reeskujo]

the only thing I'm going to say about it is he has no professional training in dog psychology and I leave it at that!!!

Originally Posted by Piti Longstalking

As much as we want to communicate like dogs, sadly, we'll always be just humans. Dogs know they're dogs, and we humans should know we're humans.


The question one should ask is, if it works is that good enough? I can teach your dog how to down many different ways, I can wait for him to down on his own and reward him, I can use a food lure to guide him to a down, I can push him down with my hands, or I can bonk a brick off his head. Now certainly what works isn't good enough if a brick will do. So it becomes an ethics question. What is the best way to get behavior, ethically? Since we want to communicate with an animal who's motives may be different than ours, we have to employ our humanity. And, our humanity would say using the most effective, and least aversive method, first, is the most humane way to go. Cesar does not choose methods based on ethics. He chooses methods based on what he believes works, and he justifies them using flawed dominance theory. This is potentially harmful in the wrong hands, and no you should not try it at home!

Everything he does has it's place in dog training, but a true professional doesn't grab a hammer when a tape measure will do. Sadly, those watching him at home are far from professional.


I believe you were allowed you opinion. It's not easy for people to accept a contradictory opinion. If that's you, forums in general are probably not a good place for your mental health. If you can employ reason and logic to investigate contradictory opinions, I'd say that's were progress is had, and where the utility of forums like this can be enjoyed.

As was said you're entitled to your opinion but as a professional training with many years of experience I have to disagree!

[zebrina]

I've only seen his show once, and the dogs he was dealing with were actually a danger to people. His methods seemed reasonable in that case. I'd like to see him just handling your basic barks/pees/on the bed case.

Someone mentioned Ms Stillwell (sp?) earlier. I have seen her a number of times, starting with that contest for the best trained dog (I forget the name). I have to say I don't really care for her. I like some of her training ideas. I think what I don't like is her attitude of 'my way or no way'.

I guess everyone has their own style of training that they like.

[german sheep]

I've only seen his show once, and the dogs he was dealing with were actually a danger to people.

and when he has finished, these dogs are a greater danger for people