[sandyh]

I am an avid cesar millan watcher. I have learned alot from his show. And it is not fake they use timers right on the show so you can see how long it takes him to help these dogs. ( 9 out of 10 times its not the dogs its the owners who need the training or the help as they are misinformed.
cesar millan is dog psychology not behavior training. and every thing he says makes sense. i have raised alot of dogs in my time and i cant believe all i have learned. it is played on national geographic channel or go to Welcome to Cesar Millan's Official Web Site

The key to a well behaved dog begins with the proper way to walk a dog so they stay calm and submissive.

Although Cesar may be an expert in dog psychology, I do not always 100% agree with everything that he says and teaches. I'm not advising anyone as to what opinion to have on him, but I am not an avid fan.

[Lara's mom]

I don't care for a lot of his methods either.

[sandyh]

what methods do you not agree with.

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by RSmith103

Although Cesar may be an expert in dog psychology, I do not always 100% agree with everything that he says and teaches. I'm not advising anyone as to what opinion to have on him, but I am not an avid fan.

Are you saying that what he shows and tells you on his show is for the most part maybe not 100 % is not the same that you offer in your book that you are trying to sell
__________________
Training An Older Dog
How To Weld

[Lara's mom]

I for one, am not attempting to sell a book or anything else for that matter. It's hard to explain. There is just something about the guy that "rubs me the wrong way". I find his attitude toward the owners to condescending. I've seen him gather up all a dogs toys and take them away. Why? I cannot even begin to fathom the sense of that. Dogs, just like children need toys to stimulate and entertain them.

I suppose I'm a bit of a rebel in that I like to see my girls individual personalities shine through. I've never wanted a "Stepford Dog". I've taught my girls what they need to know in order to be safe and to not annoy other humans or dogs. I guess my feeling is that he overtrains. I've never considered either of my girls as "lesser beings". We're a family. In fact, they're the only family I have left so, I want their lives to be filled with fun rather than constant orders from me. Does that make sense to you?

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I for one, am not attempting to sell a book or anything else for that matter. It's hard to explain. There is just something about the guy that "rubs me the wrong way". I find his attitude toward the owners to condescending. I've seen him gather up all a dogs toys and take them away. Why? I cannot even begin to fathom the sense of that. Dogs, just like children need toys to stimulate and entertain them.

I suppose I'm a bit of a rebel in that I like to see my girls individual personalities shine through. I've never wanted a "Stepford Dog". I've taught my girls what they need to know in order to be safe and to not annoy other humans or dogs. I guess my feeling is that he overtrains. I've never considered either of my girls as "lesser beings". We're a family. In fact, they're the only family I have left so, I want their lives to be filled with fun rather than constant orders from me. Does that make sense to you?

i havent seen the episode that you are speaking of yet where he takes away the toys and doesnt give them back , but i will have to watch for that one. As far as the condescending. i agree he has been that way to a couple of people because he is called out to help them he goes he explains and they dont want to believe him they don't even try to do it his way so he has to get sterner in order to make them see where the fault is so he can move on and help them help their dogs. Theres been a couple shows where i cant believe how stupid these people are. one was were the dog would bite her own kid but not discipline their dog. but if the kid did something wrong had no problem disciplining the kid, it all comes down to when the dog is doing wrong they are not willing to discipline the dog which result in the behavior problems they called him out to fix. does this make sense to you?

[Lara's mom]

Actually, it does. I'm willing to admit that I'm not a great disciplinarian. Also, I agree with you that that there are some pretty clueless owners out there. I've always tried to use positive reinforcement with my girls and with the rescues I've fostered over the years. It takes longer but it does work.

Another thing I don't agree with Mr. Milan about is the issue of dogs being allowed to sleep on the owners bed or share the furniture. I just don't see how the three of us sleeping together (four if you count the cat) in any way causes them to be dominant. My girls are both gentle spirits. You can take anything away from them without fearing you'll be growled at or bitten. Likewise, you can have your hand in their food bowls as they eat without any fear. You may think I'm nuts but, as far as I'm concerned, this is their home too. Why shouldn't they cuddle with me at night or snooze on the sofa while I'm watching TV or crocheting?

I realise that my opinion is probably in the minority but, treating my girls like family has always worked for me and, likewise those that I've fostered. They've all felt comfortable and secure in my home and, I can honestly say that I've never been bitten either by my own dogs or my furry foster kids. So, I figure I must be doing something right.

[Lara's mom]

I just visited his official website to have a look around and I was not at all impressed to discover that Milan discourages people from adopting from shelters and rescue organizations. In my book, that is one HUGE insurmountable black mark against him!!! To my way of thinking, no dog lover would take this point of view. I cannot have ANY respect for someone who claims to love dogs but who would advocate such a thing.

I'm aware that among a relatively small minority of people on the forum, mixed breeds are viewed as "mistakes and lesser than" pure bred dogs. I beg to differ. While many others bought "the perfect dog" from a breeder, I, and thousands of others like me have rescued shelter and rescue dogs my whole life. The first pure bred dog I ever had is my Lara who I bought last year (an adorable little shorty wire haired jack russell terrier). She is a wonderful little dog and I love her with all of my heart but, is she better than any of the mixed breeds I've shared my life with? NO!!! I also have a border collie X who is an equally wonderful dog and who I love every bit as much.

A pedigree does not necessarily make a better pet than a mixed breed. All dogs are deserving of our love, compassion and care. I simply cannot wrap my head around Milan's thinking on this subject. This is not the attitude of a true dog lover. I didn't care much for the man before. I care for him one hell of a lot less now.

[Lunareclipse]

I personally don't care for Ceaser Milan. I like Victoria Stilwell. She teaches you how to train your dog in ways that are fun for the owners and the dog as well. I like her later shows better than her earlier shows. She seems more relaxed in her later shows. I have watched Dog Whisperer and have never really made a connection with that dude. His training seems so impersonal. I want to form a bond with my dog while training it. Not be a prison warden.
I am totally in league with Lara's mom. I have adopted mixed breeds and got a wonderful, loving, obedient companion. All you need for any dog, purebred or mixed is love, understanding, patience, training, and your time. And if you can get a suitable dog from a shelter, by all means do so. It's the the dog's fault he was born. He needs loving too.

[Lara's mom]

That is what I wanted to say and just couldn't find the appropriate words! He is very impersonal and I always feel that when I watch his show, I'm watching a drill Sargent with new recruits! I don't see the dogs enjoying the training at all and training should be fun for both the pet parent and the pet!

As for shelter animals, there is no doubt that a few have just been too badly damaged by cruelty and neglect to ever be rehabilitated. However, they are the minority. Most of them are wonderful loving dogs just waiting for someone to come along and give them the love and care that they so rightfully deserve. All they need is a second chance in a home full of love and they blossom into the amazing dogs they were always meant to be!

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by sandyh

cesar millan is dog psychology not behavior training.

Cesar is a self proclaimed dog psychologist. He doesn't use the science on his show. He's actually an outdated dominance theorist.

and every thing he says makes sense.

Very little of what he says makes sense to me, as dominance theory is highly flawed to begin with.

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Another thing I don't agree with Mr. Milan about is the issue of dogs being allowed to sleep on the owners bed or share the furniture. I just don't see how the three of us sleeping together (four if you count the cat) in any way causes them to be dominant. .

________________________________________

Sorry i shortened up your quote to save room.

Its not dominate as long as you tell them to come up

I saw several shows were he addressed the dogs being on couches or in the beds all of which the owners did not like them jumping up uninvited or growling at them when they would try and remove them. Thus the dog being dominate. He showed them how to have the owner in control of the dog and if the owner wanted the dog in the bed or up on the couch the owner could call the dog up to sleep or cuddle or whatever, but when the owner wanted them off the bed or couch he just had to give the command and the dog would submit without question. not where they would tell it to get down over and over and over again It had nothing to do with not letting your dog sleep with you. He even made a seperate bed the same height as the persons bed with blankets because the dog was a bed hog and insisted on taking up the whole bed in between the partners. the dog loved it.Have you seen his home? He has cages and animals running all over the place and he sleeps with his dog and cat. I myself sleep with two dogs and 3 cats on my bed but when i tell them to get down they get down right away. They conform around my body not the other way around.

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I just visited his official website to have a look around and I was not at all impressed to discover that Milan discourages people from adopting from shelters and rescue organizations. In my book, that is one HUGE insurmountable black mark against him!!! To my way of thinking, no dog lover would take this point of view. I cannot have ANY respect for someone who claims to love dogs but who would advocate such a thing.

____________________________________
Wow i spent the last hour and a half going through every link that he had on his web page and did not come up with anything that says he discourages people from adopting from shelters and rescues. However I did find this:

The Foundation's primary goal is to provide financial support and rehabilitation expertise to shelters throughout the United States, better enabling them to maintain the highest standards of care and assistance to animals under their protection.

Specifically, the Cesar and Ilusion Millan Foundation will offer financial support and expertise to:
Assist select non-profit dog rescue shelters and organizations engaged in the rescuing, rehabilitation, and placement of abused and abandoned dogs with funding and expertise.
Support no-kill shelters and other organizations committed to saving dogs from euthanasia, as well as relocating misplaced and/or misunderstood animals
Provide Cesar Millan books, DVDs, and other aids at no charge to shelters and rescue groups for both fundraising and educational purposes.
Create and support regional and national projects targeting education and awareness of proper dog behavior and care; separate outreach will be conducted for both adults and children.
Produce and create national public service announcements to create and foster awareness of important animal-related issues including spay and neuter programs.

The Foundation, which has long been a dream of ours, is intended to benefit needy dog shelters and rescue centers throughout the United States. Our many years of experience in the rehabilitation of dogs of every breed and background has taught us that most animals can make excellent companions, and all that many of them need is the proper care and a second chance. Too often it is the owner who has given up on a pet, or mistreated it in some way that has made it inhospitable."
These centers work diligently to rehabilitate dogs and find them good homes rather than exterminate them, a resort we think is never acceptable.Some of these shelters are woefully under funded, though their hearts are in the right place. We hope to provide assistance to the best of them whenever and wherever we can, so that these great animals will continue to make great companions."

- Cesar and Ilusion Millan
_I sure would like to know where you found your info from

[sandyh]

Originally Posted by Piti Longstalking

Cesar is a self proclaimed dog psychologist. He doesn't use the science on his show. He's actually an outdated dominance theorist.


Very little of what he says makes sense to me, as dominance theory is highly flawed to begin with.

Do you have anything to back up your remarks here. i dont just believe everything i read

[Piti Longstalking]

Originally Posted by sandyh

Do you have anything to back up your remarks here. i dont just believe everything i read

Enjoy.

Dog Whisperer, Dog Psychology and Cesar Millan

The Dominance Controversy and Cesar Millan

http://www.4pawsu.com/dominancestatement.pdf

Cesar Millan - The Dog Whisperer: Critics Answers

[Lara's mom]

Thank you for the research. I read it all and I must say I agree with all of the criticism. Milan comes across to me as nothing more than a big bully with an ego to match. He wouldn't get anywhere near my girls if he was the last dog trainer on earth!

[Piti Longstalking]

I would probably stop short of calling him a bully. I've never met the man, so I would not generalize him in those terms. No doubt, much of his logic used on the show is archaic, backwards, and potentially harmful to dogs - in spite of the warnings. And, no matter how much they say not to, people will try his methods at home. But, not all of his message is bad. Exercise (in moderation) is a good thing for dogs, for example. It's the choice of ethics on the rest I find disturbing, not Cesar.

[Lunareclipse]

I watched one of Milan's shows once and he training a German Shepherd and he didn't even know what kind os dog it was. He had to ask the owners. It's easier to train a dog if your know what each breed's ups and downs are. You would think he would, as a dog trainer, read up on most breeds background and train them according to what they were bred for. Some things are the same same for training different breeds, and some things are different. If he can't recognize a German Shepherd when he sees it, then there is no way he can train that animal up to it's full potential.

[Lara's mom]

I use the word "bully" to describe him from watching his shows and seeing him try his dominance theory with various dogs. What I saw were dogs who looked frightened and very uncomfortable. I don't believe that frightening a dog in any way assists with his/her training. Mr. Milan's methods are outdated and for some reason, he refuses to advance with the new and better theories.