Halti/Gentle Leader

Allie · 04-14-2010

Hi Everyone,

I have a 4 1/2 month old Jack Russell pup. I have big problems walking her on a leash without pulling. My vet recommended the halti for her, and so far it's going very well with it. I'm just wondering how I would change her over to a regular collar once she walks nicely on the halti, without the pulling problem to surface again. I know the halti is a training tool only, and I don't want her permanently in it. Any suggestions?

Allie

cigwyllt · 04-14-2010

I've never used a halti - just could not get the hang of it LOL! But I have used the no pull harnesses - different sorts on different dogs - my parents spaniel cross and my own two terriers. What worked for me was to use lots of positive reinforcement when the dog "walks nicely" and a total refusal to acknowledge him when he pulls. My parents' dog in particular was like a steam train but the no pull harness forced him to walk well and he lapped up the praise he got for doing it and now trots along beautifully in an ordinary collar.

I use the lupi harness on my terriers from time to time depending on where we're going, what we're going to do but they understand what is required from them now.

Give him lots and lots of praise when he walks well - and give it a name - "walk nicely" "heel" whatever and try the ordinary collar regularly too.

Allie · 04-14-2010

Thanks for the speedy reply! Sorry for the stupid question, but what is a "no-pull harness?" I thought harnesses were more or less the same. If I could find one of those, that would be great. I really don't like the halti very much.

cigwyllt · 04-14-2010

I'm in the Uk but always assume most people here are from the States? Here is a harness like the Lupi that I use from ebay:

Four Paws Small No Pull Trainer Leash Harness Black - eBay (item 370355088077 end time Apr-23-10 17:03:29 PDT)

It tightens across the dog's chest when he pulls, it doesn't cause real discomfort because as soon as the lead is slack the harness relaxes too. Much more gentle and less painful than a check chain.

Lara's mom · 04-14-2010

Does that tightening around the dogs chest not cause discomfort? I'm also looking for a solution to the "pulling problem." Collars don't work. I bought what I thought would be the most comfortable harnesses and they still pull like crazy. I put the two of them on splitter leads and, while they don't tangle themselves up around me anymore, they still pull. My next thought is putting both Jacks on the "Gentle Leaders." I'd be interested to know who has tried them and has success or failure with them before I go out and spend a lot of money on them.

Todd · 04-14-2010

Along with this divice you will also need to train your dog not to pull if you eventually would like to walk her on lead without it. Teach her the hell command. Walk her on the leash with her attention captured on a toy or treat. While walking repeat the command "heel" and have her walk beside you. If she pulls stop walking, firmly tell her "no" and then press on using the toy or treat once more as an object of concentration. This should eventually train her to walk on a regular leash if that's what you eventual goal is.

Good luck!

Lara's mom · 04-14-2010

I'd pay good money to anyone who managed to teach my Lance anything! I've never encountered a more thick-skulled dog...

Allie · 04-14-2010

I'm in South Africa, but I should be able to get it here somewhere I hope. If not, I'll ask a friend in the US to send one.

Lara's Mom, I'm using a Halti/Gentle Leader on my Jack Russell pup. She walks nicely with it, with some coaxing, but I don't like it much. She needs to have a regular collar on as well, as a safety, because she tends to wriggle out of the halti. If I make it tighter so she can't paw it off, it inhibits her panting, which is not good. I will try and switch to a harness now, and just do whatever it takes to teach her to heel. (Thanks Todd).

cigwyllt · 04-14-2010

Lara's mum - [QUOTE]Does that tightening around the dogs chest not cause discomfort?/QUOTE]

I can only say that from what I've seen of my parents' dog in particular he never showed any signs of distress or discomfort. I've seen people training dogs with check/choke chains and there is the moment when the chain is pulled tight and the dog almost jumps as it constricts around his neck.

But I suppose there must be some level of discomfort when the dog pulls or he wouldn't modify his behaviour. When you consider the harness was designed so that the dog could pull with comfort the Lupi or no pull harness must cause discomfort or it wouldn't work. I guess it would be akin to trying to do up a skirt that is too small! (or trousers if you prefer!) But I know that it makes all the difference to my dogs and it means you can reward them and label their behaviour because it causes them to produce the behaviour you want (loose leash walking)

Todd · 04-14-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Does that tightening around the dogs chest not cause discomfort? I'm also looking for a solution to the "pulling problem." Collars don't work. I bought what I thought would be the most comfortable harnesses and they still pull like crazy. I put the two of them on splitter leads and, while they don't tangle themselves up around me anymore, they still pull. My next thought is putting both Jacks on the "Gentle Leaders." I'd be interested to know who has tried them and has success or failure with them before I go out and spend a lot of money on them.

In your particular case I think teaching the heel command is neccessary. I gave some tips above on teaching this. It may take a while for more stubborn dogs but it can be done.

Yogi · 04-14-2010

One thing to note, small breed dogs should never be on a collar/leash anyway. A harness and leash is the recommended style due to the fact that dogs weakest point is there neck and in small breeds chances of injury are even greater. Even if you teach the dog to heal and walk properly on a leash, it should still be tethered to a harness.
Good luck. I have many small dogs and can relate.

Lara's mom · 04-14-2010

Yikes! I had no idea. Well, I guess they'll just have to wear their harnesses. For some reason they don't seem to like them even though I bought them the most comfortable ones available (at a cost of 20 bucks CDN each). They try to take off as soon as I pick up the harnesses. When I pick up the leash, they get really excited and can't wait to get hooked up to go outside.

Do you think it would help if I put them on first thing in the morning and left them on all day like their collars? They're alright once the harnesses are on but, it's always such a fuss that I've been taking them out with the splitter lead attached to their collars. We spend most of our play time in the big park in front of my building and the moment we're outside they both pull as if their lives depended on it. They aren't quite as bad on their walks but they still pull. Is this what causes a collapsed trachea?

Todd · 04-14-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Yikes! I had no idea. Well, I guess they'll just have to wear their harnesses. For some reason they don't seem to like them even though I bought them the most comfortable ones available (at a cost of 20 bucks CDN each). They try to take off as soon as I pick up the harnesses. When I pick up the leash, they get really excited and can't wait to get hooked up to go outside.

Do you think it would help if I put them on first thing in the morning and left them on all day like their collars? They're alright once the harnesses are on but, it's always such a fuss that I've been taking them out with the splitter lead attached to their collars. We spend most of our play time in the big park in front of my building and the moment we're outside they both pull as if their lives depended on it. They aren't quite as bad on their walks but they still pull. Is this what causes a collapsed trachea?

I would try to keep it on all day and see if they get used to it. This may work. Also whenever you put the harness on them give them treats and praise right away to provide them with a positive association to the harness. This was actually done with a gentle leader on It's Me Or The Dog program I watched the other day. If they bite at it say leave it firmly and when they leave it reward them with positive reinforcement. If all else fails I guess you could try and use the spray bottle when they bite at the leash...

Yogi · 04-14-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

Yikes! I had no idea. Well, I guess they'll just have to wear their harnesses. For some reason they don't seem to like them even though I bought them the most comfortable ones available (at a cost of 20 bucks CDN each). They try to take off as soon as I pick up the harnesses. When I pick up the leash, they get really excited and can't wait to get hooked up to go outside.

Do you think it would help if I put them on first thing in the morning and left them on all day like their collars? They're alright once the harnesses are on but, it's always such a fuss that I've been taking them out with the splitter lead attached to their collars. We spend most of our play time in the big park in front of my building and the moment we're outside they both pull as if their lives depended on it. They aren't quite as bad on their walks but they still pull. Is this what causes a collapsed trachea?

commonly, many put them on and will leave them on while the dogs at home and not on a walk to acclimate the dog to it. I would do the same until they get use to them. Remember, many dogs are uncomfortable with collars initially too.

cigwyllt · 04-15-2010

I'd leave the harness on through the day. Another thing to consider is playing with the leash through the day as well. Our dogs always used to go crazy when anyone picked up a leash - they knew they were going out - there would be no other reason to do it. But as our family grew the children started to play with them. Nowadays the dogs don't even blink if you take a leash off the hook right in front of them. They are completely desensitised.

Yogi · 04-15-2010

To note though, this does not mean in anyway that you do not still work on teaching the dog to "walk" on a lead. Small dogs have double the problem that can occur. In the case of a collar and leash you risk not just the risk of a neck injury due to pulling but also torn cruciate ligament and patella issues. A harness alleviates the neck issue but still with excess pulling, the patella is still subject to injury.

Lara's mom · 04-15-2010

Thanks so much Yogi! I didn't know that either. I guess it's "boot camp" for those two rascals! I really appreciate the advice.