[gambler-girl]

I am unable to post the link if you paste it you can see a picture of the kid, I have no use for dogs being encouraged to bite people, and I hate the police, the two together, well just look at the picture..

GG


Police dog's future reviewed after biting toddler
NZPA Last updated 08:11 08/05/2010SharePrint Text Size INJURED: A Police dog attack left Tyler Hatton with two minor puncture wounds on his lip and a "minor gash" on the bridge of his nose.Relevant offers
A police dog's future in the force is under scrutiny after biting a Napier toddler during a kindergarten visit.

The dog bit three-year-old Tyler Hatton during the visit to Riversdale Kindergarten, puncturing his lip and giving him a gash to the bridge of his nose.

Police have apologised to the family over the incident and have launched an investigation which will consider the dog's health, physical condition and behavioural status, the New Zealand Herald reported.

It will also review the kindergarten visits which are meant to promote dog safety.

Tyler's father Matthew said his son was recovering well at home.

Mr Tyler said it appeared Tyler was patting the dog when it spun around and bit him on the face.

He said the family hoped the police investigation would stop such an incident happening again.

[cigwyllt]

Police dogs are NOT trained to bite - they are trained to bring down and restrain. That dog was not doing what it had been trained to do.

The truth is that no one knows what happened. The news report says "Mr Tyler said it appeared Tyler was patting the dog when it spun around and bit him on the face." The child could have been poking or pinching him - anything. Or it could be that the dog was in pain or had a cut that was being aggravated by the child.

I hope the child is not traumatised and given a hatred of dogs and I hope that the dog is not destroyed either.

[Todd]

I wouldn't pin this on "police dogs". Seems a bit steriotypical. There are cases of children and dogs alike being bitten by all types of dogs everyday. It inevitable. Only reason situations like this are made out to be such a big deal in the press is because of the police dog title. If the same thing happened with an average neighborhood dog you probably would never even hear about it.

[gambler-girl]

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

Police dogs are NOT trained to bite - they are trained to bring down and restrain. That dog was not doing what it had been trained to do.

Samantics, how do they bring down without biteing? Don't they call it bite work?

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

The truth is that no one knows what happened. The news report says "Mr Tyler said it appeared Tyler was patting the dog when it spun around and bit him on the face." The child could have been poking or pinching him - anything. Or it could be that the dog was in pain or had a cut that was being aggravated by the child.

Poking or Pinching does not give a dog the right to bite a person, never mind a child. If the dog was in pain why was it brought into a school to meet kids? Dogs that are taught to bite are dangerous, and there is just no reason for it today.

GG

I was unable even to put in a link to the story which had a picture of the kid, but the kids face is very swollen and just a mess. This cop needs to be removed from the K9 unit as he has no read on his dog.

GG

Originally Posted by Todd

I wouldn't pin this on "police dogs". Seems a bit steriotypical. There are cases of children and dogs alike being bitten by all types of dogs everyday. It inevitable. Only reason situations like this are made out to be such a big deal in the press is because of the police dog title. If the same thing happened with an average neighborhood dog you probably would never even hear about it.

Well the BIG difference is this dog is bred and trained for bite work and it was handled by a PROFESSIONAL, that is a huge difference. True I almost never hear about dogs being bitten by children....lol The only Inevitable thing is dogs that are trained and bred to bite people do bite people. I have owned many dogs in my life and not one of them has bitten someone and I don't think that it is inevitable that one does.

GG

[cigwyllt]

Well the BIG difference is this dog is bred and trained for bite work and it was handled by a PROFESSIONAL, that is a huge difference.

Again, there is very little detail about the incident in the news reports online.You have said yourself you have issues with the police and with the use of police dogs so your opinion is not entirely unbiased. Personally I question the wisdom of any organisation that takes a dog into a school setting, especially with very young children, whether it is a police dog or a guide dog.

[gambler-girl]

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

Again, there is very little detail about the incident in the news reports online.You have said yourself you have issues with the police and with the use of police dogs so your opinion is not entirely unbiased.

Agreed, especially since you didn't say I was wrong ;-)

edit - I have no issue with the police use of detector dogs

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

Personally I question the wisdom of any organisation that takes a dog into a school setting, especially with very young children, whether it is a police dog or a guide dog.

Here I disagree with you, I have been involved with therapy dog work. Also childern reading to dogs to build their confidence reading out loud in a library setting. School is an ideal place for a kid to learn about dogs, that is where they do most of their learding outside of the home. Most dogs are acually very nice, perhaps you are hanging around the bad ones....


GG

[cigwyllt]

Most dogs are acually very nice, perhaps you are hanging around the bad ones....

Or perhaps I've just met the wrong sort of kids LOL!

[gambler-girl]

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

Or perhaps I've just met the wrong sort of kids LOL!

LOL..... Good one!!!!

GG

[Todd]

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

Samantics, how do they bring down without biteing? Don't they call it bite work?




Poking or Pinching does not give a dog the right to bite a person, never mind a child. If the dog was in pain why was it brought into a school to meet kids? Dogs that are taught to bite are dangerous, and there is just no reason for it today.

GG

I was unable even to put in a link to the story which had a picture of the kid, but the kids face is very swollen and just a mess. This cop needs to be removed from the K9 unit as he has no read on his dog.

GG



Well the BIG difference is this dog is bred and trained for bite work and it was handled by a PROFESSIONAL, that is a huge difference. True I almost never hear about dogs being bitten by children....lol The only Inevitable thing is dogs that are trained and bred to bite people do bite people. I have owned many dogs in my life and not one of them has bitten someone and I don't think that it is inevitable that one does.

GG

i'm sure there are many dogs who have bitten children or adults that have been trained by professions too. When there are so many police dogs in the world it is inevitable that there will be a case where one bites a child once in a while. There's no way around it. These are animals. Hell, people attack and even murder other people every day and they're smarter than dogs...I think...

[cigwyllt]

Hell, people attack and even murder other people every day and they're smarter than dogs...I think.

Don't be so sure - you ever see a dog step in human poo? LOL

[Todd]

Originally Posted by cigwyllt

Don't be so sure - you ever see a dog step in human poo? LOL

You make a good point...

[Lara's mom]

I may get a lot of disagrees here but, I believe that any dog can bite (even my own 3 perfect angels) given the right circumstances or provocation. There is a world of difference between a "bite and release" as opposed to a continuing attack. It's unfortunate that it happened but from what I was able to gather, the child was only slightly injured and will make a full recovery.

Frankly, I'm sorry that this dogs future as a canine officer is now in doubt because of one mistake. No information is available that tells the whole story of what led this dog to bite. In my opinion, dogs of any size and small children are a bad mix.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I may get a lot of disagrees here but, I believe that any dog can bite (even my own 3 perfect angels) given the right circumstances or provocation. There is a world of difference between a "bite and release" as opposed to a continuing attack. It's unfortunate that it happened but from what I was able to gather, the child was only slightly injured and will make a full recovery.

Frankly, I'm sorry that this dogs future as a canine officer is now in doubt because of one mistake. No information is available that tells the whole story of what led this dog to bite. In my opinion, dogs of any size and small children are a bad mix.

I agree with some of what you just said. We all must remember that dogs are animals not humans and accidents happen.

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

Don't they call it bite work?

Yes it is called bite work. But if you know anything about what it means, then you would know that they are trained to "hold" not bite. THIS is part of the SchH "protection" training. When a police dog is released by the handler, he will go after the person. He will either go for the leg/arm. He will take "hold" of it. He will not go after this person and start ripping him apart. THIS is not part of the training. Do you know anything about SchH training? Have you seen the "protection" work? Do you know anything about the training of these dogs?

Well I do. My husband is on the Canine Unit.He has been for 20+ years. We have 4 GSD's. One is his partner. He is ScH III titled along with our two others. Our fourth is close to being titled. My dogs have not once been aggressive of bitten anyone. They love everyone. And are GREAT with kids as they have been socialized with them as pups.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

Poking or Pinching does not give a dog the right to bite a person, never mind a child.

No it doesn't, BUT a dog will only put up with so much. No different then a human. A dog should never be poked or pinched by anyone.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

Dogs that are taught to bite are dangerous, and there is just no reason for it today.

Again, do some research as to the training.

Once these dogs are done their shift, they are part of the family. They are around family, friends, dogs, cats and so on.

And as it has been said, ANY dog can bite. Here in Ontario there have been many dog bites reported. And yes many are children. And many have been bit by the family dog. I myself have been to calls in regards to bites. And what I have seen is that the kids at time prevoke the dogs to bite. Was it fair to the dog who had a pencil stuck in his ear by a child? What else was he to do but bite/attack? See the problem is parents. It's up to us to teach our kids how to act with dogs. We shouldn"t find it cute when a child is poking the dogs eyes. Or pinching/pulling. Like I said, a dog will only put up with so much. No different then a human.

Also, don't alway read into what the media says. They have been wrong sooooooo many times.

[gambler-girl]

It's unfortunate that it happened but from what I was able to gather, the child was only slightly injured and will make a full recovery.

Frankly, I'm sorry that this dogs future as a canine officer is now in doubt because of one mistake. No information is available that tells the whole story of what led this dog to bite. In my opinion, dogs of any size and small children are a bad mix.

>>>I very much disagree with you.

I don't know if you got this from the article but a police dog, that was brought into a school bit a young child in the face. Yes the dog had provocation, bred into it for 120 years, and provoked for years by stupid people with "agitators" and sleeves encouraging this dog to attack PEOPLE. These dogs are punished for not biting people. These dogs that don't bite people are removed from the breeding program. The kid did not stand a chance.

They have to breed the want to bite people into these neurotic dogs because dogs will not attack PEOPLE without provocation. Dogs by nature want to be our Friends and helpers. How evil could this child have been to be targeted by this dog? what with the handler and teacher right there, I assume paying attention, could the child have done to receive that BITE in the face? This meeting was not an accident, it was planned.

I am sorry for the child not the dog who I hope will be destroyed or at least removed from this officer and police duty as it is now proven it is not reliable. The cop should be arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon, criminal negligence, and child abuse. Will this happen of course not, but it should.

GG

Originally Posted by GSDS4Life

Yes it is called bite work. But if you know anything about what it means, then you would know that they are trained to "hold" not bite. .

Oh silly me that dog was trying to hold that childs face.... ya right. I to live in Ontario. Lets get together, I want to see your husbans dogs or yourown 'hold' you without a sleeve? Why do you use sleeves if they are just holding? You make it sound like they are holding hands at church.

[/QUOTE]
THIS is part of the SchH "protection" training. When a police dog is released by the handler, he will go after the person. He will either go for the leg/arm. He will take "hold" of it. He will not go after this person and start ripping him apart. THIS is not part of the training. Do you know anything about SchH training? Have you seen the "protection" work? Do you know anything about the training of these dogs?
[/QUOTE]

No that is not 'proection' work that is 'ATTACK' work. When you send a dog out to bite someone that is attacking, look up these words in a dictonary.

[/QUOTE]

Well I do. My husband is on the Canine Unit.He has been for 20+ years. We have 4 GSD's. One is his partner. He is ScH III titled along with our two others. Our fourth is close to being titled. My dogs have not once been aggressive of bitten anyone. They love everyone. And are GREAT with kids as they have been socialized with them as pups.

[/QUOTE]

I am very happy to hear your dogs have not bitten anyone, my bet is you to honestly make that claim have to be very carful to not let it happen, much much more then someone that strives just to have peaceful loving dogs.


[/QUOTE]


No it doesn't, BUT a dog will only put up with so much. No different then a human.[/QUOTE]

Accept they are not human. They are trained and bred attack machines they are no longer just dogs.
[/QUOTE]

A dog should never be poked or pinched by anyone.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed

[/QUOTE]

Again, do some research as to the training.

Once these dogs are done their shift, they are part of the family. They are around family, friends, dogs, cats and so on.

And as it has been said, ANY dog can bite. Here in Ontario there have been many dog bites reported. And yes many are children. And many have been bit by the family dog. I myself have been to calls in regards to bites. And what I have seen is that the kids at time prevoke the dogs to bite. Was it fair to the dog who had a pencil stuck in his ear by a child? What else was he to do but bite/attack? See the problem is parents. It's up to us to teach our kids how to act with dogs. We shouldn"t find it cute when a child is poking the dogs eyes. Or pinching/pulling. Like I said, a dog will only put up with so much. No different then a human.

Also, don't alway read into what the media says. They have been wrong sooooooo many times.[/QUOTE]

Again I disagree with your broad statement that any dog can bite, most dogs who are abused by their owners don't bite they just lay there and take it.

GG

[Todd]

What you need to understand is that these are dogs we're talking about. They do not have the IQ that a human does, at least one over teh age of 5 at most. If two 5 year olds got into a fist fight in a day care center and one injured the other should the kid be destroyed??? I don't think so. He may need to be corrected and properly punished, but destroyed and not given another chance is cruel. Dogs, like small children and even adults, make mistakes all the time and always deserve a second chance. One confrontation shouldn't determine the entire future of a dog. I'm not going to say they don't know any better, however what I am going to say is that a dog is like a child. Sometimes they will listen and behave, and other times they won't because their brains simply aren't as mature and developed as an adult. They respond to things differently and that must be taken into consideration. If this dog bit another child he may need to be taken out of the police dog position (by NO means destroyed), but anything can happen one time.

[gambler-girl]

Todd,
Distoyed maybe harsh and going to far, but where do we draw the line? This child will probably grow up fearful of dogs because of this bite, he will not have the same dog life experience you have, he was robbed of that. If we as dog owners don't govern ourselves the government will do it, and they will not use any logic. You may be right in the fact that my post is a little over the top....just a little...lol. But as stated I am from Ontario here we have BSL, I am scared of what is on the next list and after that is it a wholesale band on owning dogs?

Why do people need dogs that are trained to attack as in schutshound? Most dogs if their owners are being threatened or asulted will PROTECT their owners without training that is primale behavior in dogs to protect pack members. What isn't natural to dogs is to cast them out on comand to attack a person and I can't see any good coming from it especially for the dogs..

Dogs may have the inteligence of a three year old child but they are not three year old childern, in this case they are man made biting machines.

GG

[Lara's mom]

I think the "past issues" you have had with the police are colouring your judgement.

[GSDS4Life]

Originally Posted by Lara's mom

I thing the "past issues" you have had with the police are colouring your judgement.

I totally agree with you 100%

ShcH is a sport that also includes Tracking and Obedience. A SchH trained dog will be the the best trained dog.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

These dogs are punished for not biting people. These dogs that don't bite people are removed from the breeding program.

You have got to be kidding? Where the hell did you get this info? These dogs are Spayed/neutured. They are not used for breeding. The dogs are with their handlers 24/7. And they with them untill they can no longer work. Seriously, you have no clue as to what these dogs do on the force.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

This meeting was not an accident, it was planned.

OMG you are to much.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

I to live in Ontario. Lets get together, I want to see your husbans dogs or yourown 'hold' you without a sleeve? Why do you use sleeves if they are just holding?

Hmmmmmm is that a challenge?

The sleeve is the training part. For the person wearing the sleeve, news flash, THEY are only pretending to be the bad person. The dogs are being trained on how to act when facing a criminal. So lets just say you get attacked/beaten in the park. The dogs are called in. The attacker is found but takes off. The dog gets him but he tries to take off. Do you not want him cought? Cause the dog will do that. He will lunge at him, knock him down and take hold of either his leg or arm. And if he wants to be stupid and put up a fight, well that's his own fault cause it will hurt.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

I am very happy to hear your dogs have not bitten anyone, my bet is you to honestly make that claim have to be very carful to not let it happen, much much more then someone that strives just to have peaceful loving dogs.

Ummm I have peacefull loving dogs thank you very much. Seriously, I have more trust in my dogs as they are VERY well trained then I have trust in anyone elses.

Originally Posted by gambler-girl

Again I disagree with your broad statement that any dog can bite, most dogs who are abused by their owners don't bite they just lay there and take it.

Again, do your research before you make false statements. I can't post links yet, but do a search on the cases of dog attacks on people/kids. And like I have said, I have had calls in regards to dog bites and have a cousin with the OSPCA. So I know the facts. Ohhhhhh and don't think they take it lying down for long. These abussive owners do get it in the end.

Seriously, you really need to do a lot of research before you come on here and state things. You have no clue as to what a police dog does or what training goes into it. And if you have issues with the police(hmmmm wonder why) then keep it to yourself. And you have no clue as to the sport of SchH.

[Lara's mom]

I have nothing but the utmost respect for our canine officers and the work they do. How many human police officers lives have been saved because of these brave dogs? Nothing in life, including dogs comes with a 100% guarantee. One canine officer made a mistake; perhaps with due provocation, perhaps not. Again, there is much of the story that is not likely to emerge because it's easier to blame the dog.

GG: I don't know what your issue is with the police or police dogs but, they both put their lives on the line to protect us every day they put on their uniforms and thus are deserving of our gratitude and respect. Don't condemn the work of all of these wonderful animals because something happened with one dog.